Healthcare Spending in America
Toro @ Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:28 am
$1:
It is widely assumed that health care, like most aspects of American life, shamefully shortchanges the poor. This is less true than it seems. Economist Gary Burtless of the Brookings Institution recently discovered this astonishing data: on average, annual health spending per person -- from all private and government sources -- is equal for the poorest and the richest Americans. In 2003, it was $4,477 for the poorest fifth and $4,451 for the richest.
Probably in no other area, notes Burtless, is spending so equal -- not in housing, clothes, transportation or anything. Why? One reason: government already insures more than a quarter of the population, including many poor. Medicare covers the elderly; Medicaid, many of the poor and their children; SCHIP (State Children's Health Insurance Program), more children. Another reason stems from the skewing of health spending toward the very sick; 10 percent of patients account for two-thirds of spending. Regardless of income, people get thrust onto a conveyor belt of costly care: long hospital stays, many tests, therapies and surgeries.
That includes the uninsured. In 2008, their care will cost about $86 billion, estimates a study for the Kaiser Family Foundation. The uninsured pay about $30 billion themselves; the rest is uncompensated. Of course, no sane person wants to be without health insurance, and the uninsured receive less care and, by some studies, suffer abnormally high death rates. But other studies suggest only minor disadvantages for the uninsured. One study compared the insured and uninsured after the onset of a chronic illness -- say, heart disease or diabetes. Outcomes differed little. After about six months, 20.4 percent of the insured and 20.9 percent of the uninsured judged themselves "better"; 32.2 percent of the insured and 35.2 percent of the uninsured rated themselves "worse." The rest saw no change.
The trouble with casting medical-care as a "right" is that this ignores how open-ended the "right" should be and how fulfilling it might compromise other "rights" and needs. What makes people healthy or unhealthy are personal habits, good or bad (diet, exercise, alcohol and drug use); genetic makeup, lucky or unlucky, and age. Health care, no matter how lavishly provided, can only partially compensate for these individual differences.
Probably in no other area, notes Burtless, is spending so equal -- not in housing, clothes, transportation or anything. Why? One reason: government already insures more than a quarter of the population, including many poor. Medicare covers the elderly; Medicaid, many of the poor and their children; SCHIP (State Children's Health Insurance Program), more children. Another reason stems from the skewing of health spending toward the very sick; 10 percent of patients account for two-thirds of spending. Regardless of income, people get thrust onto a conveyor belt of costly care: long hospital stays, many tests, therapies and surgeries.
That includes the uninsured. In 2008, their care will cost about $86 billion, estimates a study for the Kaiser Family Foundation. The uninsured pay about $30 billion themselves; the rest is uncompensated. Of course, no sane person wants to be without health insurance, and the uninsured receive less care and, by some studies, suffer abnormally high death rates. But other studies suggest only minor disadvantages for the uninsured. One study compared the insured and uninsured after the onset of a chronic illness -- say, heart disease or diabetes. Outcomes differed little. After about six months, 20.4 percent of the insured and 20.9 percent of the uninsured judged themselves "better"; 32.2 percent of the insured and 35.2 percent of the uninsured rated themselves "worse." The rest saw no change.
The trouble with casting medical-care as a "right" is that this ignores how open-ended the "right" should be and how fulfilling it might compromise other "rights" and needs. What makes people healthy or unhealthy are personal habits, good or bad (diet, exercise, alcohol and drug use); genetic makeup, lucky or unlucky, and age. Health care, no matter how lavishly provided, can only partially compensate for these individual differences.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl ... _care.html
Dayseed @ Sat Sep 13, 2008 9:55 am
Fine. Go be poor in the States and then get sick. Apparently, you should be just peachy.
Robair @ Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:05 am
And if you're not poor, getting sick in the US will make you that way.
$1:
A study published Wednesday in the policy journal Health Affairs found that approximately half of people in the US who file for bankruptcy cite medical costs as a significant reason for their financial troubles. Based on a survey of 1,771 personal bankruptcy filers, the researchers extrapolated that between 1.9 and 2.2 million people were driven into bankruptcy because of health care costs in 2001.
Private health care? No thanks. All you're paying for is lawyers and insurance companies.
commanderkai @ Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:20 am
I'm all for a private health care system, because, unlike most Canadians who are against it, and thus probably never used it, there are a great many advantages the Americans have over Canadians with health care, and even though without insurance basically get the same care as they do in Canada. However, its the major operations is where the Americans make mistakes, as well as corporations/employers who mislead and/or undercut their employees health care packages.
dog77_1999 @ Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:42 am
I have the best healthcare in the world.
Who am I?
A productive American citizen with top-flight medical insurance.
I could stroll to one of the many internationally renowned hospitals and get an MRI today and then rest comfortably in a private suite.
There are more MRI machines in my city than in all of Canada. The US has the highest cancer survival rates of any country in the world.
Who are those uninsured that everyone talks about anyway?
17 million of those uninsured live in households earning more than $50,000 a year.
9 million live in households earning more than $75,000 a year.
Most of us would agree that those people can afford some type of coverage.
18 million of the uninsured are young people (18-24)who pay more for ENTERTAINMENT(as much as 4 times more) than they do for out of pocket medical expenses.
They represent 40% of the uninsured in America. A policy for them would run around 100 dollars a month.
14 million people who don't have insurance ARE CURRENTLY ELIGIBLE for government coverage but CHOOSE to opt-out (31% of the total).
Chagrin @ Sat Sep 13, 2008 12:12 pm
dog77_1999 dog77_1999:
I have the best healthcare in the world.
Who am I?
A productive American citizen with top-flight medical insurance.
I could stroll to one of the many internationally renowned hospitals and get an MRI today and then rest comfortably in a private suite.
There are more MRI machines in my city than in all of Canada. The US has the highest cancer survival rates of any country in the world.
Who are those uninsured that everyone talks about anyway?
17 million of those uninsured live in households earning more than $50,000 a year.
9 million live in households earning more than $75,000 a year.
Most of us would agree that those people can afford some type of coverage.
18 million of the uninsured are young people (18-24)who pay more for ENTERTAINMENT(as much as 4 times more) than they do for out of pocket medical expenses.
They represent 40% of the uninsured in America. A policy for them would run around 100 dollars a month.
14 million people who don't have insurance ARE CURRENTLY ELIGIBLE for government coverage but CHOOSE to opt-out (31% of the total).
Who am I?
A productive American citizen with top-flight medical insurance.
I could stroll to one of the many internationally renowned hospitals and get an MRI today and then rest comfortably in a private suite.
There are more MRI machines in my city than in all of Canada. The US has the highest cancer survival rates of any country in the world.
Who are those uninsured that everyone talks about anyway?
17 million of those uninsured live in households earning more than $50,000 a year.
9 million live in households earning more than $75,000 a year.
Most of us would agree that those people can afford some type of coverage.
18 million of the uninsured are young people (18-24)who pay more for ENTERTAINMENT(as much as 4 times more) than they do for out of pocket medical expenses.
They represent 40% of the uninsured in America. A policy for them would run around 100 dollars a month.
14 million people who don't have insurance ARE CURRENTLY ELIGIBLE for government coverage but CHOOSE to opt-out (31% of the total).
Agreed, our healthcare isn't as terrible as evryone thinks.
Bacardi4206 @ Sat Sep 13, 2008 12:21 pm
commanderkai commanderkai:
I'm all for a private health care system, because, unlike most Canadians who are against it, and thus probably never used it, there are a great many advantages the Americans have over Canadians with health care, and even though without insurance basically get the same care as they do in Canada. However, its the major operations is where the Americans make mistakes, as well as corporations/employers who mislead and/or undercut their employees health care packages.
They got a advantage alright, they got the advantage of being broke. Health Care insurance doesn't even cover a fraction of the costs of your medical bill. Luckily people who go to the hospital in America commonly go for minor operations. It's the bigger operations that bankrupt Americans because they are way too expensive.
Hell even with Universal Health Care, some people still feel the sting of a large operation and that's with a much larger coverage.
If you really think the American health care is so great, go tell that to the many Americans who actually have to deal with the American health care system and bite the dust because they got sick.
The American Health Care system only looks after those who can afford the treatments, which is not everybody. That is unfair. Not only that, but any middle class citizen who goes in for a expensive operation will be losing a large percent if not all of his or her life savings. Wow that is so great, working for your entire life and all of a sudden you get really sick. You get fixed, and wamo all that hard work down the drain.
The Universal Health care system increases tax's and is a burdon yes. However everybody can afford to do it, and everybody can rest assured that if they do ever get sicked. They can actually get treated for it without sacrificing there entire life savings.
If Canada ever adopted Private Health Care, no matter how patriotic I am. I am moving to Europe. That is a giant leap down in life, going from Universal Health Care to that. There is a reason why everybody in the world chooses UHC over the American way of doings things. Because it works a lot better. If you do not see that, I suggest you get your eyes checked.
Bacardi4206 @ Sat Sep 13, 2008 12:33 pm
dog77_1999 dog77_1999:
I have the best healthcare in the world.
Who am I?
A productive American citizen with top-flight medical insurance.
I could stroll to one of the many internationally renowned hospitals and get an MRI today and then rest comfortably in a private suite.
There are more MRI machines in my city than in all of Canada. The US has the highest cancer survival rates of any country in the world.
Who are those uninsured that everyone talks about anyway?
17 million of those uninsured live in households earning more than $50,000 a year.
9 million live in households earning more than $75,000 a year.
Most of us would agree that those people can afford some type of coverage.
18 million of the uninsured are young people (18-24)who pay more for ENTERTAINMENT(as much as 4 times more) than they do for out of pocket medical expenses.
They represent 40% of the uninsured in America. A policy for them would run around 100 dollars a month.
14 million people who don't have insurance ARE CURRENTLY ELIGIBLE for government coverage but CHOOSE to opt-out (31% of the total).
Who am I?
A productive American citizen with top-flight medical insurance.
I could stroll to one of the many internationally renowned hospitals and get an MRI today and then rest comfortably in a private suite.
There are more MRI machines in my city than in all of Canada. The US has the highest cancer survival rates of any country in the world.
Who are those uninsured that everyone talks about anyway?
17 million of those uninsured live in households earning more than $50,000 a year.
9 million live in households earning more than $75,000 a year.
Most of us would agree that those people can afford some type of coverage.
18 million of the uninsured are young people (18-24)who pay more for ENTERTAINMENT(as much as 4 times more) than they do for out of pocket medical expenses.
They represent 40% of the uninsured in America. A policy for them would run around 100 dollars a month.
14 million people who don't have insurance ARE CURRENTLY ELIGIBLE for government coverage but CHOOSE to opt-out (31% of the total).
I have the best healthcare in the world
Who am I?
A productive Canadian Citizen with limited coverage.
I could stroll to any one of my hospitals, get treated for whatever ales me and get a pat on the back and go home. Without having to deal with those pesky doctors grubbing me for my money. Why? Because my bill has already been paid. Thanks Universal Heath Care!
I can spend as much money as I want on entertainment, hell I can even blow it all away on hookers if that is what I wanted and if I ever got sick. I still go to the hospital, get treated and come back treated and continue on with my life.
Yes congrats on the MRI's, but I guess that has nothing to do with the U.S. spending a crap load more money on its health care system then Canada does? You know having more MRI's has nothing do with your private health care system right? That just has to do with your large budget government package.
Our government spends less money on our health care, yet Canadians live longer then Americans do. Hell even poor countries, with the worst living conditions that have UHC live longer then Americans do. I guess your large ammount of MRI's don't really make you live as long as you want to.
The point of Universal Health Care is to help every citizen, and make sure they can afford to get treated and they do. Some people who get large operations do get a big bill, but they can atleast go home without having to file for bankruptcy the next day.
American Health Care is like a prostitute. If you can't afford the entertainment, you don't get any entertainment. Leaving anybody who can't get insurance, or afford it or afford there treatments even with insurance out to dry.
Robair @ Sat Sep 13, 2008 12:34 pm
Medical bills make up half of bankruptcies
$1:
Most were insured
Most of those seeking court protection from creditors had health insurance, with more than three-quarters reporting they had coverage at the start of the illness that triggered bankruptcy. The study said 38 percent had lost coverage at least temporarily by the time they filed for bankruptcy, with illness frequently leading to the loss of both a job and insurance.
Most of those seeking court protection from creditors had health insurance, with more than three-quarters reporting they had coverage at the start of the illness that triggered bankruptcy. The study said 38 percent had lost coverage at least temporarily by the time they filed for bankruptcy, with illness frequently leading to the loss of both a job and insurance.
Donny_Brasco @ Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:40 pm
You guys are joking right? Twice the spending for a life expectancy right beside Cubans.
If I cut my hand or break an arm, get sick in the middle of the night, get hurt fixing my house...NO WORRIES!!!
No middle man insurance agency going to turn down my care, fast service, peace of mind that I will be cared for weather I make fuck all or are wealthy.
With all of that technology, all of the best machines and medicine in the world the average UC citizen gets no better health care then Cuba? At 1/10th the cost?
We spend WAY less per capita here in Canada and somehow manage to survive a few years longer?
What if everyone in the US paid the same tax we do to get the same healthcare...cut out the insurance companies, you would have AT LEAST as good of a system...and the average person would be healthier.
Please, please stop posting this crap about how good the American system is. Compare stats with any other industrialised country and Americans are generally AVERAGE at best. At twice the price....
Chagrin @ Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:27 pm
That chart is interesting, Donny. Makes me think differently about our healthcare...
Robair @ Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:38 pm
Chagrin Chagrin:
That chart is interesting, Donny. Makes me think differently about our healthcare...
Excellent! Think about doing your country a favour and supporting H.R. 676.
USA-AOK @ Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:56 pm
Health care is only a tiny part of life expectancy. More important factors include:
1) Genetics
2) Crime
3) Eating/exercise habits
4) Lifestyle and stress
5) Belief in a higher purpose
Like it or not, the government cannot wave a magic wand and increase Americans' life expectancy.
hurley_108 @ Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:58 pm
My limited knowledge of Obama's and McCain's positions on health care is that Obama wants to mandate care, but not require insurance, whereas McCain wants to mandate neither.
Public insurance can only work if participation is mandatory. Otherwise, the rich and healthy will opt out, and the only ones who opt in will be those who are poor and sick, leaving you with an unsustainable system. This is what Obama seems to be proposing.
As someone for whom health care is always my number 1 concern when voting (other matters only concern me when I don't feel my health care is threatened), and given that my belief is that the best health care comes from a mandatory participation single payer system, I would vote for McCain, not Obama, becuase Obama would give me a system that is unsustainable and which will damage the cause of universal health care for decades.
hurley_108 @ Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:00 pm
USA-AOK USA-AOK:
Health care is only a tiny part of life expectancy. More important factors include:
1) Genetics
2) Crime
3) Eating/exercise habits
4) Lifestyle and stress
5) Belief in a higher purpose
Like it or not, the government cannot wave a magic wand and increase Americans' life expectancy.
1) Genetics
2) Crime
3) Eating/exercise habits
4) Lifestyle and stress
5) Belief in a higher purpose
Like it or not, the government cannot wave a magic wand and increase Americans' life expectancy.
So on which, if not all, of those counts does Canada beat the USA given our better life expectancy?
