teachers with guns???
dunker @ Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:11 am
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
dunker dunker:
The concept of deterrence doesn't register with you, does it?
$1:
Sorry for not quoting properly..
Bart..the concept is clear..but in Canada I don't see the writing on the wall. In places such as Israel, Russia..or any other war-torn country, where their people have always had to look behind their backs, carrying a gun would not be a bad idea. I don't think Canadians today want this type of approach in their school systems..it's just not... Canadian, and as mentioned earlier, there are other means of deterrence that would not result in bloodshed. However, as time goes on, there may be the need for more drastic measures within the school systems. I can see school boards in the States grasping this concept and integrating it with little or no side effects..however, we Canadians have never really been partial to the whole gun thing..IMO.
So in your case you'll be content to wait until kids are actually being murdered before acting on the potential problem.
I'm assuming you're already a Member of Parliament, right?

Hell no! An MP! I'd rather shovel horse shit
And you know..kids are going to be killed regardless if a teacher has a gun or not. I would love to see some sort of legislation pertaining to safe-guarding school grounds..the cop on the corner or sitting in a security room covering all angles..restricting school entry to students only..I just hate the fact that schools have now and have been targeted, but obviously by choice, as they are easy grounds and easy prey.
If Canada's situation ever bears a resemblance to that of an Israel, Russia or Thailand, then the anal's on the hill can make those drastic measures as they see fit.
You know well that the world situation is as grave or worse than it has ever been..you've been around the world and have seen things far more drastic than the majority of canadian's have ever seen, you see things in a different light and have different approaches to certain things.. all good in my mind..but again, Canada has a long way to go before it starts arming its teachers with handguns. How about a reserve that is issued by CAF that is primarily in place to look after the security issues of schools across the country? Lots of $ involved but would bolster CAF in the process
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
BN, you're starting to work on an "Annoying" nomination.
Well how about we discuss it over a cup of go fuck yourself?
If you'd like to compare your community with those in Israel, Thailand, and Russia, be my guest. It's not a valid comparison in my world, though.
So why would armed police or armed private security guards at a school somehow be inherently better than properly trained and properly armed teachers? We just had a thread about abusive cops so what is so magical about cops that makes them better than anyone else?
If anything, law enforcement officers are far less stable than your average school teacher.
They have far higher divorce rates, far higher substance abuse rates, and far higher suicide rates than do teachers.
Also (sarcastic comment disclaimer) as some people are worried about teachers shooting certain students I would maintain that some students may well have it coming anyhow. We should probably go get their parents, too, while we're at it.
Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
BN, you're starting to work on an "Annoying" nomination.
Well how about we discuss it over a cup of go fuck yourself?
Do they serve that at Timmies? If so, I'm buying.
Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
BN, you're starting to work on an "Annoying" nomination.
Well how about we discuss it over a cup of go fuck yourself?
I disagree Bart.
Give him the halarious medal. I was drinking Canada Dry when I read his post.
Canada Dry always tells me something is funny when it ends up going up my nose.
Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:
If you'd like to compare your community with those in Israel, Thailand, and Russia, be my guest. It's not a valid comparison in my world, though.
Unlike Israel, Russia, and Thailand, we do not have a significant muslim community as of yet.
Canada's per capita muslim population exceeds ours and with your rates of net immigration you're on track to exceed our net muslim population in not so many years. Give it time and you'll eventually have to revisit this subject.
Also, as I pointed out, many communities in California already have armed teachers on campus and they do not make a big deal out of it. We've also had no problems whatsoever with firearms that are posessed by properly permitted teachers.
Nor have any other communities across the USA that do the same.
Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:
Canada Dry always tells me something is funny when it ends up going up my nose.
Oh, man....ginger ale up the nose comes close to making tear gas look nice. Ouch!!!!
There's some interesting points in this thread although I have to consider the trend that sometimes to move forward, you have to take a step backward.
I find it interesting that taking a strap to a kid who misbehaves is considered abuse and a traumatic experience... yet instead of simply bringing that back they're thinking about arming teachers? Because staring down the barrel of a gun is far less traumatic? I don't think so.
The problem is that the governments have already taken away so MUCH power on ALL levels. Within the family you cannot spank your children these days because they'll threaten to phone child services on you for child abuse. So parents are losing control at home. At school the same deal, back in the day when the strap & spankings were used, I'm not sure I've ever heard of any 'school shootings' because bullies simply never got to the point that they're at today, which in some cases (obviously not all, but some) is akin to an adolescent terrorist towards select peers. Then later on down the road after having put up with years upon years upon years of bullshit, the victim peer snaps & goes on a rampage and all the negativity that was heaped upon him as a child, comes flying out of the barrel of a gun. First towards others, and then aimed at himself because by this point he/she so loathes what they've become, that not only can they not live with the abuse from their peers anymore, but now they can't live with themselves anymore.
Arming teachers isn't going to fix the problem, it is not a preventative method, it is very similar to a fire extinguisher, there to deal with a problem once its arisen, rather than preventing it from happening in the first place. Arming teachers still isn't going to give them the necessary means to stop the bullying that happens, it still isn't going to give them the power to discipline unruly children, it still isn't going to give parents the power to discipline unruly children, it isn't going to fix the problems before they start.
Does the government HONESTLY think that these individuals 'shooting up' the schools are going to be deterred by the idea of being shot? How many school shooters are still alive, and how many were either shot by law enforcement or shot themselves when they were "finished" ?
$1:
How so? It hasn't been teacher's and principals shooting people. Now atleast there would be an opportunity to stop the carnage within minutes instead of hours. It's not like there would be teachers walking around with holsters on thier hips. Or perhaps the taxpayers would prefer to pay for a police officer in every school?
lol they already do here in alberta, well high schools and Jr Highs anyways, they don't need a cop for elementary. they're called "resource officers". a better idea is tp put metal detectors by the doors and the officer(s) (that are already in the school) monitoring people as they come and go. here in canada gun crime in school isn't common enough to warrant more than one officer so that policeman walks around and talks to students and stuff l;ike that.
i jsut think that putting more guns in schools is rediculous. it's a stupid way to solve a problem and i guarantee it won't work.
[edit] useless reply to old post... sorry
[edit] replying to old posts that have already been replied to saying the same thing i said.....
that being said....
on deterrance: of the person who is going to shoot up the scool has a concealed weapon also, and suicidal intent, how will the teacher dispatch this person with their gun?
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
So, one more time, the facts prove that this works everywhere it's been implemented.
No, the facts prove no such thing. Mutually assured destruction has not deterred these people and it will not do so. Arming teaches will only mean they will be shot first. I have on numerous ocasions walked into classes unnoticed. I have seen teachers with their backs to the door etc.
What are teachers going to be staring at the door all day, just waiting for someone to burst in to kill them? A person who is teaching a class isn't going to be on the lookout for an attacker. Just as a person who is giving a speach isn't going to be searching for an assassin in the crowd. This is why you see security details whose job is to not be distracted.
Because that is actually effective.
Tricks @ Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:11 pm
Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:
No, the facts prove no such thing. Mutually assured destruction has not deterred these people and it will not do so.
It isn't meant to be an original deterrance. It is meant to stop it before it gets out of hand.
$1:
Arming teaches will only mean they will be shot first. I have on numerous ocasions walked into classes unnoticed. I have seen teachers with their backs to the door etc.
So lets say you are the shooter then. You shoot that teacher, and another one who is armed hears it. He walks in an picks you off before you have a chance to figure out what to do next, or before you can hose any more people.
$1:
What are teachers going to be staring at the door all day, just waiting for someone to burst in to kill them?
No, that's not the point, and you are clearly missing it.
$1:
A person who is teaching a class isn't going to be on the lookout for an attacker. Just as a person who is giving a speach isn't going to be searching for an assassin in the crowd. This is why you see security details whose job is to not be distracted.
So you want to put police in every school? Can we talk about the price of that for a second? And using your own arguement, the cop would be picked off first.
$1:
Because that is actually effective.
Not when there isn't a specific Target. Security details watch for things coming at the person they are protecting, try doing that in a school with a potential 2000 targets.
Tricks Tricks:
Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:
No, the facts prove no such thing. Mutually assured destruction has not deterred these people and it will not do so.
It isn't meant to be an original deterrance. It is meant to stop it before it gets out of hand.
$1:
Arming teaches will only mean they will be shot first. I have on numerous ocasions walked into classes unnoticed. I have seen teachers with their backs to the door etc.
So lets say you are the shooter then. You shoot that teacher, and another one who is armed hears it. He walks in an picks you off before you have a chance to figure out what to do next, or before you can hose any more people.
$1:
What are teachers going to be staring at the door all day, just waiting for someone to burst in to kill them?
No, that's not the point, and you are clearly missing it.
$1:
A person who is teaching a class isn't going to be on the lookout for an attacker. Just as a person who is giving a speach isn't going to be searching for an assassin in the crowd. This is why you see security details whose job is to not be distracted.
So you want to put police in every school? Can we talk about the price of that for a second? And using your own arguement, the cop would be picked off first.
$1:
Because that is actually effective.
Not when there isn't a specific Target. Security details watch for things coming at the person they are protecting, try doing that in a school with a potential 2000 targets.
I completely disagree. Having a cop in the school is a HUGE deterrance. I do not believe for one second that a cop would be the first to be picked off. The badge holds meaning in many peoples eyes and when that guy (or girl) walks into a room you generally know who is boss. People do not fuck with cops like they would some punk teacher flailing a gun about. Putting a cop in every highschool is the way to go.