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Godamn if he does this kind of shit in the public eye....think about how good he must act in private

   

Must be great at parties!

   

It has nothing to do with the ability and dedication of docters and nurses. Please do not put words in my mouth. The system is strained and absused and there are not enough doctors and nurses and equipment and money. Doesn't matter how hard working and dedicated the doctors are when there aren't enough of them.


Somehow I doubt your fathers one experience with the health care system accurately shows how it really is. I hurt myself playing hockey, I could have waited 6 months for surgery, missed out on a shit load of work, etc. But I just went down south, paid a few hundred bucks and got it done right away and got it done right. I still don't see whats wrong with guaranting everyone a basic health care and charging extra for the frills.

   

System abuse is no different in other countries as well. Our system isn't dying and you are wrong to say that. What experience do you have or are you basing your findings an someone elses article stating that?

   

It certainly sounds like it to us.

Full privatization not only drives up wages across the board but universally sees a drop in the number of patients a doctor sees. It certainly will not magically increase the number of doctors.



Yes. Now take in mind I have been talking about the difference between primary care (such as cancer treatment) and secondary care (such as sports injury). I fully agree that a privatized secondary system to supplement our system would be of greta benefit. What you describe isn't basic or primary care. Now factor in that in our system, every single person can see a doctor for everyday ailments, see a doctor regarding pregnancy, see a doctor for children related problems and all paid for. In the US system there are large numbers of people who simply cannot afford that type of care and just don't get it. Sure they cannot get turned away for any life-threatening condition but alot simply don't bother even going for the everyday stuff.

BTW, I hurt my back as well but managed to get almost immediate physiotherapy. Perhaps the problem is that many people simply don't know how to go about it.

   

Sure it is. People don't seem to abuse things as much when they have to pay directly out of their pocket for things. Anytime anyone gets the sniffles or a sore toe in Canada they head on down to the doctors office. Why cause to them its free. Same with old people, going to the doctor is another way for them to get out of the house. Costs us billions but whatever eh.



I'd say it is. Wait times are getting longer, its costing more and more the brain drain to the states. We keep pumping more money into it but its not solving the problems with it.

   

I did not mention anything about primary Emergency care. I was talking about secondary tertiary procedures.

Hip surgery or knee replacements are not emergency procedures, unless related to a multi-system trauma situation.

And as for seeing the way the healthcare system is, I have first hand knowledge being involved in it myself on both ends, pre-hospitally and in-hospital.

   

derbyx -I should have read your second post before responding to the first one. I'm not for full privatization. I think a 3rd way might work if done correctly. I agree with the seconday/primary thing that you said.

   

Why is it that someone who throws a pie at Klein gets charged with public mischief and receives a fine but if HE throws something at someone, it's laughed off. Klein needs to go NOW, not after the leadership convention.

He's the biggest reason people outside Alberta think we are all rednecks.

   

I agree, though I also know that happens in the UK and Australia. The problem is that when you go the opposite way, charging per visit, you often adversely affect the poorest members of society who simply cannot afford even small surcharges and simply don't go. Its a balance.



Scape has already addressed wait times.

Remember that in the States they have much higher wages and so pound for pound we get more health care for our money then them based on that fact alone.



A distinction that many people don't understand about. People hear "privatization" and think its full spectrum. Canada couldn't tolerate that. Private secondary care would enhance our system because it provides all the primary care we need and allow those who want better/faster secondary care and are willing to pay for it the ability to get. This helps alleviate pressure on ER and primary care providers allowing quicker treatment.

To be honest, one of the best ways to ease congestion would be to allow many more perscription drugs to be sold over the counter or have a specialized system set up so refills can be obtained without visiting a GP or ER.

   

Is Alberta Premier Klein a folksy charmer or a ranting hothead?

Priceless.

   

Somehow I bet these people that cannot afford a few bucks for an appointment are the same ones that can afford hitting up the pub every other night. People that can't afford it shouldn't be charged, the rich old man thats going to the doctor twice a week cause its cheaper than going to a movie should have to pay. Anyways, I don't even know what I'm argueing on this topic anymore. *gone

   

He is smoking cow patties again

   

Australian wait times are definately longer than those in Canada.

But their system is more sustainable than Canada's too. Personally, I wouldn't say the Canadian system is "shitty." I think for the most part, people in Canada recieve excellent care. That's certainly been my experience.

That said, the Canadian system is unsustainable. We have an aging demographic, with spiralling health care costs and the younger generation isn't reproducing itself at a high enough rate to pay for it.

Sooner or later, we're going to have to find a way to deliver health care that doesn't rely exclusively on public funds. Otherwise, the entire government budget is going to end up going to health care.

Unfortunately, we can't have an intelligent public debate on the subject in Canada because the first thing people like Derby, Scape and others do when anyone suggests a change to the status quo is run off screaming "NO AMERICAN STYLE HEALTH CARE!"

There are other models Canada could like at, like those of Sweden, Germany, France, Australia, etc.

Ralph Klien's just put that on the agenda. Good for him.

   

Care to back that up? C'mon. I would relish defeating your piss-poor logic yet again.

I have consistenly on every thread state that Canada would do very well if it allowed supplementary "US style" privatization in many aspects, a stance oppossed only by the NDP I might add.

Private secondary care works very well because it is and should be based on "how much someone is willing to pay". That philosophy does not work well when primary care i sthe issue.

People like you only ever shout "THE USA IS PERFECT AND CAN DO NO HARM. WE SHOULD ALL EMULATE THEM AND IN CANADA"S CASE BE ASSIMILATED BY THEM."

   

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