Harper Subverting Democracy
Rev_Blair @ Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:43 am
$1:
Are you going to answer my question? I'm trying to understand what you are talking about.
What question was that? The one where you implied that an appointed representative was more democratic than an elected one? I didn't think that deserved an answer. I still don't, but whatever.
It is up to the government to listen to the elected representative from each riding about the needs and concerns of that riding. They can choose to act on those concerns or not, but the elected member is the person the people of that riding have chosen to represent them.
An appointed representative is not responsible to the people, just to the person who appointed them, so is less likely to effectively represent needs and concerns of the constituents. That is especially true when the needs and concerns of the constituents go against official party policy.
That's why we have a multi-party system where people vote for representatives.
$1:
Not really much difference these days though is there!
Huge difference. If you paid attention, you'd know that.
$1:
I was talking about this at my riding's nomination meeting and I am disgusted. This riding has a great MP who is always up speaking about issues coming from his riding. I can't get my MP to stand up and speak about anything, he just sits on the back bench and says nothing. If Harper is just going to appoint people why do we eve have elections.
Exactly. Conservative MPs have been muzzled and this was nothing more than an attempt to muzzle a non-Conservative MP.
Tricks @ Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:46 am
Rev_Blair Rev_Blair:
$1:
Are you going to answer my question? I'm trying to understand what you are talking about.
What question was that? The one where you implied that an appointed representative was more democratic than an elected one? I didn't think that deserved an answer. I still don't, but whatever.
$1:
So there is an elected MP in this riding, and one was appointed to it instead? Does this count as the conservatives having that riding, and having another MP on their side of the floor?
Maybe you should try reading your own thread.
Rev_Blair @ Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:48 am
$1:
Maybe this MP isn't so great, and isn't presenting issues from everyone in this riding. It's not unheard of for MP's to ignore constiuents who don't wave their party flag(this applies to all parties). Or maybe the NDP supporters equate having 2 ways to contact the government as "subverting democracy" I prefer to think of it as opening up democracy.
Cullen was re-elected with 48% of the vote. Members from all other parties have noted how willing he is to work in a non-partisan fashion both in his riding and in Ottawa.
People from other parties (including the Conservatives) and his constituents have remarked on how hard he works. He has opened more constituency offices and dealt with issues from all over the political spectrum.
Maybe you and Harper don't understand how our democratic system works, 2Cdo.
Rev_Blair @ Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:49 am
$1:
So there is an elected MP in this riding, and one was appointed to it instead? Does this count as the conservatives having that riding, and having another MP on their side of the floor?
Maybe you should try reading the links.
Tricks @ Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:00 pm
Rev_Blair Rev_Blair:
$1:
So there is an elected MP in this riding, and one was appointed to it instead? Does this count as the conservatives having that riding, and having another MP on their side of the floor?
Maybe you should try reading the links.
Instead it is a forum for the people of the riding to go to if they so wish. Nothing is saying they have to. Nothing is saying they can't go to the other guy. Did you ever think this is a forum for the people who say voted conservative and know their concerns are being ignored, because it doesn't follow the NDP party lines. This will put their concerns forward as well. Again, this isn't subverting democracy. That's massive spin.
ridenrain @ Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:03 pm
Wow. Slow news day.
2Cdo @ Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:05 pm
Rev_Blair Rev_Blair:
$1:
Maybe this MP isn't so great, and isn't presenting issues from everyone in this riding. It's not unheard of for MP's to ignore constiuents who don't wave their party flag(this applies to all parties). Or maybe the NDP supporters equate having 2 ways to contact the government as "subverting democracy" I prefer to think of it as opening up democracy.
Cullen was re-elected with 48% of the vote. Members from all other parties have noted how willing he is to work in a non-partisan fashion both in his riding and in Ottawa.
People from other parties (including the Conservatives) and his constituents have remarked on how hard he works. He has opened more constituency offices and dealt with issues from all over the political spectrum.
Maybe you and Harper don't understand how our democratic system works, 2Cdo.
Well neither link said you couldn't talk to the MP, so how is having 2 lines of communication subverting democracy? Maybe some would be more comfortable talking to someone who has the same political bent as themselves. Sorry Rev, sounds like a mountain out of a molehill.
2Cdo @ Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:06 pm
Tricks Tricks:
Rev_Blair Rev_Blair:
$1:
So there is an elected MP in this riding, and one was appointed to it instead? Does this count as the conservatives having that riding, and having another MP on their side of the floor?
Maybe you should try reading the links.
Instead it is a forum for the people of the riding to go to if they so wish. Nothing is saying they have to. Nothing is saying they can't go to the other guy. Did you ever think this is a forum for the people who say voted conservative and know their concerns are being ignored, because it doesn't follow the NDP party lines. This will put their concerns forward as well. Again, this isn't subverting democracy. That's massive spin.
Well said Tricks.
Rev_Blair @ Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:44 pm
$1:
So that's a no.
Not at all. In fact the matter of Harper now backing away from this shows that it was unacceptable and he knew it.
A member of parliament is ELECTED to represent his or her constituents in Ottawa.
Appointing somebody to represent those same constituents to the government, and only to the government, behind closed doors is nothing more than an attempt to take away the power and trust the people gave to their elected member.
Again, if the Liberals would have tried this in a Conservative riding when they were in power, you guys would be screaming bloody murder. You still yell and scream about the Senate, while ignoring that Harper appointed one of his bagmen to that same Senate and made him an unaccountable minister.
Tricks @ Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:58 pm
Rev_Blair Rev_Blair:
$1:
So that's a no.
Not at all. In fact the matter of Harper now backing away from this shows that it was unacceptable and he knew it.
$1:
A member of parliament is ELECTED to represent his or her constituents in Ottawa.
But they don't. And you know full well they don't.$1:
Appointing somebody to represent those same constituents to the government, and only to the government, behind closed doors is nothing more than an attempt to take away the power and trust the people gave to their elected member.
What about the people who didn't vote for him? He's NDP, so obviously someone who suggests a right-wing stance on something is going to be ignored. This just gives another forum for those people.$1:
Again, if the Liberals would have tried this in a Conservative riding when they were in power, you guys would be screaming bloody murder. You still yell and scream about the Senate, while ignoring that Harper appointed one of his bagmen to that same Senate and made him an unaccountable minister.
No I wouldn't. I was ready to scream bloody murder about this because of how you spun it. You made it sound like he had removed the other MP. All he is doing is giving another place to make suggestions.
Oh and the reason Harper is distancing himself from this is because people have spun it for the ignorant Canadians who can't think for themselves and still have the hidden agenda BS implanted in their heads.
RUEZ @ Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:59 pm
Rev_Blair Rev_Blair:
Again, if the Liberals would have tried this in a Conservative riding when they were in power, you guys would be screaming bloody murder. You still yell and scream about the Senate, while ignoring that Harper appointed one of his bagmen to that same Senate and made him an unaccountable minister.
Tell us what else we would do if the Liberals were in power since it's so easy for you and so hard to argue against.
sasquatch2 @ Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:02 pm
Mankind3
$1:
I can't get my MP to stand up and speak about anything, he just sits on the back bench and says nothing. If Harper is just going to appoint people why do we eve have elections.
Perhaps we would do better, if you are any indication of the intelligence of voters.
Harper appointed no-one. This gal was nominated by the local riding assn. No appointment.
This tory spokesman made the comment that this nominee could be contacted about government problems. The NDP MP has not had his position modified in any manner.
Dion HAS APPOINTED nominees without consulting LIBRANO riding assns.
Pay attention.
HOCKEY PUCK
RUEZ @ Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:09 pm
lily lily:
In other words...
If the Liberals do something bad, it gets added to the list of 200+ "scandals".
If the Cons do something bad, there are 2 options:
1. Claim the Libs were worse
2. Spin it so it doesn't look too bad.
What have the Conservatives done that is bad?
If the Liberals do something bad, it gets added to the list of 200+ "scandals".
If the Cons do something bad, there are 2 options:
1. Claim the Libs were worse
2. Spin it so it doesn't look too bad.
Rev_Blair @ Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:10 pm
That's their game, Lily.
It was clear from what Dick Harris said that Smith was the one the government wanted people to contact, instead of Cullen. Harris never made that decision on his own...everything this government does is controlled out of the PMO.
Streaker @ Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:34 pm
This makes me think of Duplessis-era Quebec. Not very encouraging, but not surprising.