What happened to the Conservative party?

Sir John A Macdonald, a man with a vision, built the Canadian Railway through northern Ontario in order to keep it out of Americans hands. Granted he was a drunk, and corrupt (the Pacific Railway scandal), but he was charismatic, and a true leader. So why did the rest of the conservative leaders only emulate his corruptive nature and not his leadership? In the beginning, this party was against free trade with the US, Brian Mulroney sold the country to them. Robert Borden was a good conservative leader (he granted women the right to vote). But look at Diefenbaker, Mulroney, and now Harper. The party never has been so out of touch with the Canadian people. Macdonald must be spinning like a top in his grave.

Don't say that about Diefenbaker in Saskatchewan, Gonzo. Some old farmer from Nipawin will give you a thrashing. Not that you're wrong, but he's their boy. When you get up around PA even the NDPers defend him.

What really happened was corporatisation. As big business became more and more powerful, they controlled pro-business politicians more and more. Think about it. In MacDonald's day, there were very few large corporations. Most businesses were small to medium in size. A lot of large businesses appeared or became large and powerful after WWII. They put the pressure on Diefenbaker when he came to power.

Mulroney (and Paul Martin too...he's cut from the same cloth) grew up in the milieu of big business. Check out their resumes, they've been owned by these guys since they were in university.

Harper is a whole other animal. He is not only controlled by business, but the parts of him that are free of that influence in Mulroney and Martin are owned by the radical religious right. While in Mulroney's day it could still be argued that Canada's most right-wing party stood to the left of the democrats in the US, that is no longer the case. Read The Man Behind Stephen Harper by Marci MacDonald. Harper really is George Bush's twin.

The conservtives died in 2003/04 when the 'right was united' and stephen harper became leader. It had a chance to be turned around, but they bent over for the alliance just to have a decent shot at taking out the liberals.

Macdonalds bedspins probably lasted long after death, so I would assume he is still going. Either way, you're correct about Borden being against free trade (1911 election) It as originally the liberals under Laurier who wanted reciprocity. They have gone from a protectionist, and in my opinion, truly conservative of Canada to somewhat of a republican party wannabe.

Thats just what I think, there is still hope,.

The closest thing there has been to a traditional Canadian conservative in recent years is David Orchard, who was treated with total contempt by the vast majority in the party. Last I heard he was basically hounded out of the party-an indication of how thoroughly the conservatives have sold out...

Not only did they hound him out, the bastards still owe him money. There is no Conservative Party, it's the same bunch of racist, mindless fuckwads that I was dealing with in the early 80's.

Just wondering, Rev, what were you up to with the conservatives 20 years ago :?:

I don't know what Rev was doing in the early eighties, probably playing with lego, but I was driving so called "scabs" into Peter Pocklington's meat packing plant around then.

During that time, I learned that unions are for no-hopers who can't make it in the business world, and that the Liberal Party are a bunch of losers.

Based on this thread though, I guess you guys need a history lesson.

The Liberals used to encourage free trade and the Tories (Sir John A) opposed it. They did so because Johnny boy, and most Anglo Canucks, were Tories who wanted to promote British Rule in North America. The US was considered the enemy.

Things changed over the years. Eventually, Brian Mulroney came to power, negotiated a cadillac deal on free trade (for Canada anyway, the States got the raw end), and somehow thanks to public sector union losers and the NDP, ole' Brian got painted as the bad guy.

History has proved Mulroney right though, and I think we can all agree the Conservatives have ended up on the right side of history by embracing the greatest and most free society on earth, the United States of America. The Liberals might rule in Canada but they are nobodies on the world stage, and have ensured Canada hasn't mattered since Trudeau's early years.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence upon those who would do us harm." [B]George Orwell

The conservatives went to shit when they started letting religion into their platforms.
I don't care what somebody does to another aslong as they are consenting adults.
And the weakminded started listening to Martin and Layton when they where trying to convince Canada that Harper was the boogyman and gonna kill healthcare,welfare,pensions,etc,etc,etc.....
When truth betold the Liberals have done more damage to healthcare than anybody else.The fear campaign that was run by the left and center during the last election was actually an American style kind of politics.But yet we in Ontario voted the bastards in again and for that I must say I am sorry to the rest of Canada.And for the people that are fans of the NDP, Ontario for the most part still have not forgiven them for the Bob Rae years.
Back to the point
The only way for the conservative party to win again is to jump off the moral highhorse and stick to running the politics of running the country not our lives.

The rightwing parties had to form one party.The problem is that radicals of Reform took over.
Its a hell of a mess can't stand the moral politics of the Conservatives,don't trust the Liberals and didn't take enough acid in High school to think the NDP way is a good one.

They didn't have to form one party, Dan. They actually got fewer votes in the last election than the Alliance and PCs combined did in the election before that because they lost so many red tories.

They didn't really form one party, either. The split in the conservatives is very deep. So guys like you should be backing David Orchard or the new PC (Progrssive Canadians) party and pushing for parliamentary reform so that the first past the post system we have now goes the way of the dinosaur.

I like some of his idea's but having Howard Zinn complimenting him does lil towards sticking him in a place I can support.His leaning toward the left is the same as voting for Martin.
Yes the right had to unite.This 2 parties fighting for the right wing vote was just letting the Liberals walk away with the elections.Harper was a terriable choice but better than Stockwell Day.
The taint of the Reform party is what I think scared away the Ontario voters that and Martin screaming that Harper is cut healthcare,plus Harpers idea to start building aircraft carriers for the Canadian Military.I am a huge supporter of military spending but even I know thats a bad idea.We really don't need them and the money would be better spent on ground troops.
The split vote was killing the right.Even losing some voters because of the 2 parties coming to together was worth it.The problems that the conservatives are having now will be sorted out and will form a goverment soon.

The Conservatives were a middle to right party, now they are extremely right wing and loose votes to the Liberals who are more center. Merging likes this has driving the nail further into the Conservative coffin. They are out of touch with Canadians, having been on the wrong side of every issue, from gay marriage to the war in Iraq. They appeal to red necks and rich people, a small minority of Canadians (thank God). How could they ever win an election?

Orchard is cracked out. Read his book, he is about as anti-american as you can get. He seems to see himself as some kind of martyr for Canadian soverignty when thats simply not the case. I agree, however, the PC & Reform should have remained seperate. Had Belinda Stronach been made leader when they did join, the party would have had a better chance and most likely have won in the last election, despite her inability to speak french.