US rules out deal on F-22
Newsbot @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:17 pm
<strong>Title: </strong> <a href="/link.php?id=19059" target="_blank">US rules out deal on F-22</a> (click to view)
<strong>Category:</strong> <a href="/modules.php?name=News_Links&file=category&catid=17" target="_blank">Business</a>
<strong>Posted By: </strong> <a href="/modules.php?name=Your_Account&op=userinfo&username=-Mario-" target="_blank">-Mario-</a>
<strong>Date: </strong> 2007-02-14 04:10:48
bootlegga @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:17 pm
Maybe the Aussies aren't such close US allies after all. I know the US was considering selling F-22s to Japan, so why not Australia?
ridenrain @ Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:32 am
Nice spin boot, You must have missed these lines:
$1:
Although the US has never exported the F-22, Labor and some defence experts believed the US might relax its restrictions with a close ally such as Australia.
Dr Nelson discussed the range of warplane options with senior Bush administration officials during the annual Ausmin defence talks in Washington in December.
But in a letter to Dr Nelson last month, Mr England clarified US policy once and for all.
"Regarding the F-22, our current position is that the airplane will not be made available to foreign military sales," Mr England wrote.
Dr Nelson discussed the range of warplane options with senior Bush administration officials during the annual Ausmin defence talks in Washington in December.
But in a letter to Dr Nelson last month, Mr England clarified US policy once and for all.
"Regarding the F-22, our current position is that the airplane will not be made available to foreign military sales," Mr England wrote.
Untill then:
$1:
Australia Runs Out of Time
February 14, 2007: Australia, which was planning on replacing its existing force of F-111 bombers with F-35s, has done the math and realized it will have to buy an interim aircraft. The worn out, 1960s era F-111s, will have to be retired by 2010. The F-35s will not arrive until 2018. Meanwhile, Indonesia is buying Russian Su-30 fighters. In response, Australia wants to buy 24 American F-18F fighters, for about $100 million each (including spare parts, training and such). Australia already operates 72 of the older, and smaller, F-18B. While the two versions of the F-18 have a lot in common (about 25 percent commonality in parts), the F-18F is basically a new, and larger, design that is based on the original F-18. The F-18F deliveries could begin by 2010, and provide Australia with a high performance fighter-bomber that could cope with the Su-30. .
February 14, 2007: Australia, which was planning on replacing its existing force of F-111 bombers with F-35s, has done the math and realized it will have to buy an interim aircraft. The worn out, 1960s era F-111s, will have to be retired by 2010. The F-35s will not arrive until 2018. Meanwhile, Indonesia is buying Russian Su-30 fighters. In response, Australia wants to buy 24 American F-18F fighters, for about $100 million each (including spare parts, training and such). Australia already operates 72 of the older, and smaller, F-18B. While the two versions of the F-18 have a lot in common (about 25 percent commonality in parts), the F-18F is basically a new, and larger, design that is based on the original F-18. The F-18F deliveries could begin by 2010, and provide Australia with a high performance fighter-bomber that could cope with the Su-30. .
I'm quite shocked that a labor government would ask for the better, more expensive fighter though. Obviously, something get's lost when we look at our NDP.
bootlegga @ Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:52 am
Not one, but several websites mentioned this possibility last year...
F-22 Raptors to Japan?
$1:
Via InsideDefense.com, Inside The Air Force (ITAF) reports that momentum is building within the Air Force to sell the ultra-advanced F-22A Raptor abroad to trusted U.S. allies, as a way of plussing up numbers and production. The USAF originally initially intended to purchase almost 700 F-22 fighters, but that was cut to 442, then 381, and recently cut again to just over 180. These cuts have had obvious effects on the cost per aircraft.
One of the most likely export prospects is Japan. The Japan Air Self-Defense Force (JASDF) currently has four fighter jet models in its fleet: F-15J/F-15DJ Eagles, its F-4EJ "Kai" and RF-4EJ reconnaissance Phantom IIs, the Mitsubishi F-2s (a larger, longer-range variant on the F-16C), and F-1s. The F-1 entered service in 1978 and is being replaced by F-2s; the JASDF introduced the F-4EJ in 1973, and has indicated it will begin retiring the platform some time next decade. This gives the Japanese a number of choices....
One of the most likely export prospects is Japan. The Japan Air Self-Defense Force (JASDF) currently has four fighter jet models in its fleet: F-15J/F-15DJ Eagles, its F-4EJ "Kai" and RF-4EJ reconnaissance Phantom IIs, the Mitsubishi F-2s (a larger, longer-range variant on the F-16C), and F-1s. The F-1 entered service in 1978 and is being replaced by F-2s; the JASDF introduced the F-4EJ in 1973, and has indicated it will begin retiring the platform some time next decade. This gives the Japanese a number of choices....
Air Force Plans to Sell F-22As to Allies
$1:
Momentum is building within the Air Force to sell the service's prized F-22A Raptor -- which is loaded with super-secret systems -- to trusted U.S. allies, with Japan viewed as the most likely buyer, service and industry officials tell Inside the Air Force.
A Lockheed Martin official heavily involved in the Raptor program told ITAF Feb. 14 that a proposal to alter course and sell the Raptor to Japan is working its way through the Air Force. Lockheed is leading development and production work on the service's newest fighter.
“Right now, [the proposal] is at the three- or four-star level” within the Air Force, the Lockheed official said. “It's not at the highest levels yet . . . to the people who really count -- but it's getting there.”
A Lockheed Martin official heavily involved in the Raptor program told ITAF Feb. 14 that a proposal to alter course and sell the Raptor to Japan is working its way through the Air Force. Lockheed is leading development and production work on the service's newest fighter.
“Right now, [the proposal] is at the three- or four-star level” within the Air Force, the Lockheed official said. “It's not at the highest levels yet . . . to the people who really count -- but it's getting there.”
Japan Kicking Tires of the F-22
$1:
While the U.S. Air Force has long maintained that the F-22 would probably not be exported, because of the large number of classified technologies, that is about to change. The other, largely unspoken, reason for not exporting was the cost of the F-22. Selling for about $200 million each, there are few countries that afford this kind of stuff. Then there is Japan. Apparently there is some interest here. With the second largest economy on the planet, and the second largest defense budget, the Japanese are used to buying expensive aircraft.
Spin...I don't think so...
You're the one who spins and deflects, not me.
BartSimpson @ Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:01 pm
The US got bit in the butt on the F-14 deal with Iran and since then has been very reluctant to share advanced tech even with close allies.
Because no matter how close an ally is, you're but one election away from them not being so close anymore.
Recall when Quebec was voting on secession and the USA told Canada to remove the CF-18s and other sensitive military tech from Quebec lest it fall into the openly anti-American hands of the Bloc.
That's why we won't sell nuke subs to Canada as well.
I imagine if the question of Quebec secession was put to rest permanently with a law to ban such questions they things may be different.
With Britain not getting access to US tech it's much the same issue that while we get along with Mr. Blair there's a large segment of the UK electorate that is not so friendly with us and Britain pissed off the Pentagon by sharing classified US tech with France on the Eurofighter.
If we can't trust someone with our secrets then we don't share them anymore.
With Australia it seems that the anti-American component over there is few and far between considering they have 500 million muslims just north of them in Indonesia and also given the problems they've been having with the muslims who are already there. The Aussies are becoming quite militant in opposing muslim aggression and that puts them closer to the USA by necessity.
TheFoundersIntent @ Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:11 pm
It's high time we put a hold on our technology. I'm tired of passing it along at a savings to other countries.
ridenrain @ Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:19 pm
I agree with you guys but I'd like to see you carry that on to Israel too.
I'm just suprised that anyone is looking at using the F22s. Sure, they are the best, but their also the most expensive and you really need to live in a bad neighborhood to need that sort of clout.
Clogeroo @ Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:40 pm
$1:
I'm just suprised that anyone is looking at using the F22s. Sure, they are the best, but their also the most expensive and you really need to live in a bad neighborhood to need that sort of clout.
Look where Australia is. An Anglo-Celtic country surrounded by millions that are not. Except for their nearest neighbour New Zealand.
Tokimini @ Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:45 pm
Great Britain and the Aussies are the USA's closest friends and allies and probably the only ones that would stand with us if we were ever attacked. To tell them we don't trust them is insulting.
bootlegga @ Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:04 pm
ridenrain ridenrain:
I'm just suprised that anyone is looking at using the F22s. Sure, they are the best, but their also the most expensive and you really need to live in a bad neighborhood to need that sort of clout.
My guess is that like Canada, they have a huge airspace to patrol and they'd prefer to have a second engine in case the first one flames out (the JSF is a single engine fighter). I don't imagine it's all that easy to land a plane in the Outback. That's why a lot of people (both here and in the defence world) are puzzled by Canada spending millions on the single engine JSF.
BartSimpson @ Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:29 pm
ridenrain ridenrain:
I agree with you guys but I'd like to see you carry that on to Israel too.
It does. Israel passed tech on to China without our permission and the Israelis who used to have reciprocal privileges at many of our bases no longer enjoy those privileges.
A number of joint exercises no longer take place because we do not trust them with the knowledge of our tech and tactics.
BartSimpson @ Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:30 pm
bootlegga bootlegga:
ridenrain ridenrain:
I'm just suprised that anyone is looking at using the F22s. Sure, they are the best, but their also the most expensive and you really need to live in a bad neighborhood to need that sort of clout.
My guess is that like Canada, they have a huge airspace to patrol and they'd prefer to have a second engine in case the first one flames out (the JSF is a single engine fighter). I don't imagine it's all that easy to land a plane in the Outback. That's why a lot of people (both here and in the defence world) are puzzled by Canada spending millions on the single engine JSF.
Single engine planes that are cheaper to maintain get maintained. In Canada that's a big deal. Were I RCAF I'd rather drive a well-maintained single engine plane than a poorly maintained twin engine casket.
ridenrain @ Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:39 pm
I agree. I think that twin engine thing does not take into account the reliability of modern engines.
If we're only running a recon patrol, lets fly the Argus, but if we need fighters, we're already in the position where we might lose one.