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[QUOTE BY= lesouris] [QUOTE BY= Crankster] Always good to open debate on any topic.Even when it is something that has been debated time and agian. <br /> Homosexual marriage is homosexual marriage.Call it what it is!! The only thing that annoys me is the fact that the gay community rubs our noses in the fact that they are gay.Parades and all. They would argue that heterosexuals flaunt it all over the place as well.Do we parade it down streets and bash you over the head with the fact that we are heterosexual.? <br /> [/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Concidering that the gay parades occur in the gay ghettos I hardly would say it is <i>rubbing heterosexuals noses into it</i>. I mean like it or not, there's still a lot of homophobia out there and parades work to break down that hate. For some reason, no one cares when Carabana rubs non-Carribeans noses into their culture, the Santa Clause Parade rubs non-Christians nones into it, or that the St. Patrick's day parade rubs non-Irish peoples noses into it. The GLBT community has its own culture too and celebrates that, and if you don't like that, don't go! <br /> <br />As for heterosexuals...I suppose that when heterosexuals kiss in public, go out on intimate dates, and go to the prom together, with no one staring or making rude comments, heterosexuals are not rubbing homosexuals' noses into it? Its like that age old conversation all children start: <br /> <br />CHILD: If today's father's/mother's day, when's kids' day? <br />PARENT: Everyday is Kids' Day. <br /> <br />Its the same with the LGBT community; let's face it, in non-homosexual areas, homosexuality is not concidered by mainstream society to be public. <br /> <br />As for marriage, separate but equal is not equal.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />I like how you called it a ghetto retard. Stop over sensationalizing everything. It really annoys me when someone goes on talking about the gay agenda. I am not in anyway a homophobe infact I have a gay aunt and I support her fully. <br /> <br />I know that a lot of crap they do is all a big publicity stunt and it really pisses me off. Its almost like they try to ahrd to get noticed.

   

[QUOTE BY= Stymiest]I like how you called it a ghetto retard. Stop over sensationalizing everything. It really annoys me when someone goes on talking about the gay agenda. I am not in anyway a homophobe infact I have a gay aunt and I support her fully. <br /> <br />I know that a lot of crap they do is all a big publicity stunt and it really pisses me off. Its almost like they try to ahrd to get noticed. [/QUOTE] <br /> <br />I don't think I'm sensationalizin at all. I have to wonder whether you have ever actually been to an urban gay centre, because there is a lot of ghetto-like qualities that perhaps your aunt doesn't have to deal with. For instance, the increased poverty rates, the heighted drug and prostitution rates, and the heightened rate of depression and suicide. It seems as though you and your family genuinely love and accept your aunt and her sexual orintation, but there are a lot of GLBT people who do not have that benefit, and are either kicked out or unwelcome at their home. <br /> <br /> It's not about trying to get noticed at all, it's about being proud of who you are no matter what people think of you. Pride Festivals are to remind Canada that multiculturalism isn't exclusively ethnic diversity, but only one layer in a multicultural socity (others being religious diversity, sexual diversity, linguistic diversity, political diversity, et cetera).

   

Stymiest, anything the GLBT community does is likely to be seen as a publicity stunt. The reason? Because it's a community that has been forced for years to operate behind closed doors. Now they are gradually winning the fight for equality, so they are redifining their culture within the new framework of a public context. <br /> <br />This means that some of what they do publicly will be designed to reach out to others who might wish to join this community. Like any other community, this means making their celebrations fun and good-spirited. So they dress up in silly and frilly clothes and overemphasize their sexual preferences. <br /> <br />Is this any different than St. Patty's day, when the Irish and anyone else who wishes dresses up in green and storms the pubs? Is it any different than Halloween when all those who celebrate it (Wicken, etc) authentically dress up in silly outfits and party in the streets downtown? Or is it different than Christmas, when the entire country turns into one big Christian shopping mall? <br /> <br />Don't get me wrong. I don't have a problem with these other celebrations (other than the over-commercialization of Christmas). I just think that the GLBT community has just as much right as anyone else to hold a parade and dress up goofy and act silly in the streets. <br /> <br />We used to burn witches. Now we celebrate Halloween. Face it, the GLBT is a fringe community going mainstream. Soon their holidays will be more openly accepted and the celebrations won't be limited to a the GLBT community - and besides, a day to celebrate sexuality will probably end up being REALLY fun!!! It'll be like Marti Gras...

   

What do you mean 'used to burn witches'? People stopped? <br /> <br />Whoops...

   

I really enjoyed reading this thread, because when I saw the title I thought 'uh-oh, here comes the torches'. But I was really surprised. I thought I'd mention some research I'm doing for school. Part of the initial push behind the protestant reformation, and later the church of england, was the simple fact that catholics had too many damn holidays. They were celebrating some saint's birthday just about every week (and so not working). This was also behind the prejudice the british had against the irish, who worked just as hard-but knew how to let loose. <br /> My point is my agreement about the parades. In fact, I almost never hear anything from the 'gay community' so really don't know how they throw things in our faces. There does seem to be a flamboyance, a real joy to the fact they can now come out of the closet (in some places). That kind of joy seems sorely lacking in our work work work canadian culture. I read that France has a mandatory 35 hour work week and by law everybody gets one month holiday! Man, we are just too uptight and overworked here! I've even adopted my dad's saying about cutting wood- "oh, that can wait til I'm resting". More parties gay people!

   

Give Gays and Lesbians equal rights sure, give them civil unions with equality towards married couples. But do not pervert marriage, we are not the Netherlands. Marriage (especially in a Christian context, don't forget what religion helped forge most of Canada's values) is meant to be a loving and loyal union between man and woman. That's my view, and if it's backwards, reactionary or unprogressive, than too bad! I've been critisized by all the mushy headed Leftists before, but it doesn't bother me because I know what my values are, and to tell you the truth the majority of Canadians feel the same way, incl. most people I know. <br /> <br />My views are not based on bigotry or homophobia, I strongly support individual rights and I definately do not hate anybody, but I also support morality! I do not care what somebody's sexual preference is, but when a nation starts selling out it's values, it sells it's soul!

   

BTW: Sorry if I sounded like a religious fanatic <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mad.gif' alt='Angry'> , <br />I'm not, Im actually pretty liberal when it comes to my social views. But I personally believe that someone can supprot morality or be "socially-conservative" and also be progressive or "socially-liberal" at the same time. Balance is all you need!

   

ok, on gay parade. personally, i think it's not what is was created for these day. the initial reason was for promoting the idea that homosexuals was like everyone else. but have seen those parade ? seriously, it's just a commercial let's dress in drag queen day. seriously, if you watch those parade, and think that gays are like that everyday in the year, you can have a pretty low opinion of gays... <br /> <br />on marriage : i dont see what's wrong about calling homosexual marriage. as long as you respect the freedom of religion and not force churches to marry people that dont follow the religion point of view (as far as i know, both protestant and catholic church are against homosexuality), and that you only pratice homosexual marriage in court with a judge, where the religion have not any place, well i dont see the trouble...

   

Well Cathou, some protestant churches do actually marry homosexual couples (Anglican and United), but as a Catholic I was appaled by the possibility that it could lead to the government maybe even forcing us to change our beliefs and practises. On fear arose from a defeated "anti-discrimination" piece of NDP legislation to ban discrimination against Gays and Lesbians. Many parts of it were fine and democratic, but it also would have made it illegal for any institution to deny homosexuals equal services, that could have been used against not only my church, but Muslims, Jews, Sikhs and many others!!!

   

[QUOTE BY= Macdonald/Borden] Well Cathou, some protestant churches do actually marry homosexual couples (Anglican and United), but as a Catholic I was appaled by the possibility that it could lead to the government maybe even forcing us to change our beliefs and practises. On fear arose from a defeated "anti-discrimination" piece of NDP legislation to ban discrimination against Gays and Lesbians. Many parts of it were fine and democratic, but it also would have made it illegal for any institution to deny homosexuals equal services, that could have been used against not only my church, but Muslims, Jews, Sikhs and many others!!! [/QUOTE] <br /> <br />yeah i can uinderstand your fear. personally i wouldnt support any legistlation that force that on churches. but on annother hand we must protect gays rights. that was all about in the gay marriage. it's not only a way to express the love two person can have for each other, but also to insure that certain rights are protect: hospital visits, succession, healthcare insurance, etc.. <br /> <br />but again, well, respect the churches too...

   

I see what you're saying, but gays and lesbians could have the exact same protection with civil unions. Personally I don't think that marriage has to be changed to give them equality. Also I don;t like the way that the leftwing of the Liberal party and the NDP are trying to force this on Canadians, even though the nation is strongly split 50/50 over this issue. There should be heavy debate before we make any heavily impactive changes to Canada like that! <br /> <br />

   

[QUOTE BY= Macdonald/Borden] I see what you're saying, but gays and lesbians could have the exact same protection with civil unions. Personally I don't think that marriage has to be changed to give them equality. Also I don;t like the way that the leftwing of the Liberal party and the NDP are trying to force this on Canadians, even though the nation is strongly split 50/50 over this issue. There should be heavy debate before we make any heavily impactive changes to Canada like that! <br /> <br />[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />i guess it's just quetion of tradition that the word marriage is ask for. but what the hell, if it's only the question of a word that bother people, let's go with civil union. <br /> <br />But the church and pressure group have militated against civil union as well. and homosexual marriage is now legal in 7 (i think) province, and i still dont see the social fabric falling appart around us like the church have predicted...

   

[QUOTE BY= Macdonald/Borden] I see what you're saying, but gays and lesbians could have the exact same protection with civil unions. Personally I don't think that marriage has to be changed to give them equality. Also I don;t like the way that the leftwing of the Liberal party and the NDP are trying to force this on Canadians, even though the nation is strongly split 50/50 over this issue. There should be heavy debate before we make any heavily impactive changes to Canada like that! [/QUOTE] <br /> <br />There has been debate, and the majority of Canadians don't care! Your assertion that Canada is divided "50/50" is rightwing propoganda. If Canada was divided that much, wouldn't it have become a major issue in the last federal election? <br /> <br />Besides, if the highest courts in seven of Canada's provinces and territories decide that anything besides marriage would be unconstitutional, I'm inclined to believe the experts! <br /> <br />If you don't want to call a married same-sex couple "married" you don't have to. You have your freedom of expression. <br /> <br />Anyways, calling two people "Civil Unionized" or something along those lines, would just be too complicated and confusing for me. Why can't we just accept that same-sex marriage is here to stay? In fifty years, this arguement will be as archaic as the mixed-race marriage argument is today. <br /> <br />I personally see this civil union argument as the last attempt by anti-gay rights activists to curb total acceptance of homosexuality in the government. It is a desperate and pointless argument that is quite pathetic to watch.

   

First of all do not try and compare the "gay marriage movement" in any way, shape or form to the civil rights movement. Gays are not denied equality under the law, we are a Christian nation, and therefore our values must always be kept the same to reflect that. And in our religion and culture, one thing shall never change and that is that marriage is what it is, you dont like it move to Belgium!!! <br /> <br />The reason why the main political parties dogded it in June, 2004 is because it is such a contentious issue, you're only listening to liberal propoganda and believing what you want to believe! Even generally social-liberal sources, like the CBC and T.O. Star show the exact same results every time they take a poll, I have never seen anything to remotely suggest that people do not care! <br /> <br />Every single poll that has been taken over the last year has showed shifts in between 51-49%, but it has always remained about half/half. I think you should really pay more attention to what Canadians think rather than telling us what we think or what we should think, which is what you leftists seem to be really good at! <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'>

   

self-censored

   

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