Canada Kicks Ass
Omnibus COVID-19 virus discussion thread

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DrCaleb @ Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:38 am

Scape Scape:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
But broadcasters have a code of ethical conduct that guides them. It doesn't guide their viewers, like you want ISPs to do. ISPs cannot police what their users do unless they monitor their users. That costs money, and requires a heavy redo in the physical architecture of the internet in Canada.


What I am talking about is a code of conduct just the same that the broadcasters are required to adhere to. This requires hearings, a complaint process and ombudsman. The ISP will not be monitoring the traffic, rather the public who reside in Canada have a voice to write in stating what terms are being breached. These will be reported and remedial actions will be taken. Ideally the site itself will take action but they may be outside of Canadian jurisdiction but the ISP is subject to our laws. If the offending site does not provide the appropriate action the ISP will then be compelled to shut down the site to their customers. How that is done will be up to them but they will be required to stop the signal. Domains will be blocked, IP will be blocked by the provider.


I know that is what you are talking about, but Broadcasters can abide by a code of conduct because they create the content they produce. ISPs are just a middleman, where they relay data from one Data device to another, agnosticaly. And the data is usually encrypted, so there is no way for them to monitor the data to begin with. Rogers doesn't care what you watch on Porntube, nor is there a way for them to know. That's between you and your credit card company. Making the ISP conform to some sort of code about what data is allowed and what isn't is not only technically impossible right now, but it's possibly unconstitutional.

The way the internet is designed, an ISP can't 'block' a domain unless the ISP removes it from their DNS servers, but anyone can use another DNS server and connect to blocked sites. When the ISP DNS server doesn't have the answer, then the protocol is to use another Root DNS server. And that transaction can be encrypted, so the ISP is unaware what is being requested anyhow, and cannot block it. I do this as a matter of privacy, using the Cloudfare or Google public DNS servers by default with an encrypted connection to bypass any monitoring for adverting purposes my ISP might try.

The ONLY way to effectively block internet traffic would be the way that authoritarian governments use. Physically re-wire the internet so that there are single points of access that can be monitored, and force users to use a known encryption key that can be decrypted by the ISP.

Trust me man, I do this for a living on government networks. This the process needed to keep phishing and hacking attempts at bay, but it also allows us to watch people using Facebook and Instagram from inside the network.

Scape Scape:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
ISPs provide data. Nothing more. It's up to the user where they let their eyeballs roam.


If you aid and abet terrorism, propagate misinformation during a pandemic you are breaking the law in this land. If the platform you are using to break the law is outside of the country we should be able to block the platform you are using to send your message either by delisting the platform OR using our local access providers to stop the signal. This doesn't mean the signal itself will be stopped 100% and that is not the intent but rather forcing major tech companies such as Facebook, Google and any other social media platform to conform to OUR laws if they want to be carried by our ISPs.


Whoa! Which law is against misinformation? You are entering the narrow edge between fact and opinion, and bending the right to free speech.

I'm not saying the world won't be better without Facebook, Twitter and many other places, but they do have the right to express themselves.

Scape Scape:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
But wait, you just you wanted to make them subject to the laws of the country they were in? Facebook is in Canada, so is Google. Just like the ISPs. Facebook already abides by Canadian law, especially when it comes to things like facial recognition.


And play wack-a-mole? No. We can go after Google Canada while Google USA still keeps the site up. Waste of time. They can make a new company like Spotify and keep doing it. Bad faith actors will skirt the law, ISP in Canada who need a license to operate can't.


ISPs won't comply with all the financial requirements needed to comply, and frankly I don't agree with giving them Government money to do it. There are many companies that comply with local laws, like you pointed out with Google. That we don't have anything like the GDPR means that they don't take our laws too seriously.

I see Microsoft breaking Alberta Privacy laws all the time. I put in complaints against them all the time. Nothing changes, because there is no incentive for them to. Why don't we try that, before we put impossible requirements on third parties that they will fight?

   



xerxes @ Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:05 am

rickc rickc:
I have learned to take all vaccines on my Friday, that way I don't have to miss any work. My job gave us a paid day off of work for getting both shots early in the game. The second dose made me miss a day of work as I got it on my weekend, so the whole day off thing became a wash. I will take one day of feeling like crap over weeks in the hospital with a tube down my throat any time.


Same here. I thought I had given myself enough to deal with any after effects of the shot. My schedule this week was Thursday-Saturday and I got my shot Tuesday. I felt fine that day and it was only Wednesday morning that I woke up feeling like a truck had hit me.

Still better than getting the actual virus though.

   



DrCaleb @ Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:44 am

Federal modelling suggests 'very intense' Omicron surge within weeks

   



DrCaleb @ Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:13 pm

   



herbie @ Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:34 pm

Well the stepdaughter's old man who 'just never got around' to getting vaxxed and spent over a month at hospitals in the Mainland with Vax Clinics a=everywhere while the baby was born and still didn't get around to it now has Covid.
SO now he's off work and they're short of $$ with a new baby wah wah wah.... gee that's what Welfare's for isn't it?

And she still hasn't got her 2nd shot. Cuz ya know her doctor, unlike every other one in the country, advised her not to get it while she was pregnant.
Hope the prick doesn't infect her and the baby

   



Scape @ Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:46 pm

Denmark preparing for a return to near normal……again]

   



Scape @ Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:19 pm

DrCaleb DrCaleb:
The ONLY way to effectively block internet traffic would be the way that authoritarian governments use. Physically re-wire the internet so that there are single points of access that can be monitored, and force users to use a known encryption key that can be decrypted by the ISP.

ISPs won't comply with all the financial requirements needed to comply, and frankly I don't agree with giving them Government money to do it. There are many companies that comply with local laws, like you pointed out with Google. That we don't have anything like the GDPR means that they don't take our laws too seriously.

I see Microsoft breaking Alberta Privacy laws all the time. I put in complaints against them all the time. Nothing changes, because there is no incentive for them to. Why don't we try that, before we put impossible requirements on third parties that they will fight?



If ISP sign on to the code of conduct the idea is that there is a tool in place to keep bad actors in check in the commercial space. In other words the THREAT of being blocked should be enough of a hassle to the big tech companies that they will actually enforce their terms and conditions or in the case of Spotify actually bother to create them. Right now there is no onus on them to be responsible AT ALL, rather it a race to the bottom as they will put out what ever creates the most clicks for their content regardless of the irresponsibility of it.

Going to the source of the offender and asking them to play nice when there is zero downsides for them isn't working. Fines are seen as the cost of doing business, we need a credible threat to CUT THEM OFF.

   



bootlegga @ Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:44 pm

rickc rickc:
Thanos Thanos:
Beck's not allowed to let a day pass without saying "internment camps" at least once. It's in his contract, the one that turned him into a multi-millionaire through peddling hysteria to complete & total gullible morons.

Wonder what the US could have been without that streak of insane paranoia about literally everything that runs through their national blood. How much more could they have accomplished, before their inevitable disintegration began, if so many of them hadn't been hiding behind locked doors cradling loaded guns in sheer terror for most of their lives of for someone (government, Negro, Jew, commie, Chinese food delivery guy, etc) "coming to get them". Like, it's kind of not normal or healthy for a massive percentage of an entire nation's population to think & behave that way. :|


Have you ever even been to the U.S.?


Thanos isn't totally wrong - I've travelled off and on to the US for 30 years, and everything changed after Dubya was elected and 9/11 happened.

The US went from an incredibly friendly and welcoming place with a few fringe nutjobs to one where scared and paranoid people terrified of non-white Christian Americans are no longer the fringe, but a very large and very vocal minority.

It's quite sad to see that those changes to the US were made by 'patriots' and not the 9/11 terrorists.

   



raydan @ Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:07 pm

I used to take a camping trip down south every year. When the Orange Man threw his hat in the ring, things just changed. I haven't been back since, probably never will.

   



DrCaleb @ Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:20 pm

Scape Scape:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
The ONLY way to effectively block internet traffic would be the way that authoritarian governments use. Physically re-wire the internet so that there are single points of access that can be monitored, and force users to use a known encryption key that can be decrypted by the ISP.

ISPs won't comply with all the financial requirements needed to comply, and frankly I don't agree with giving them Government money to do it. There are many companies that comply with local laws, like you pointed out with Google. That we don't have anything like the GDPR means that they don't take our laws too seriously.

I see Microsoft breaking Alberta Privacy laws all the time. I put in complaints against them all the time. Nothing changes, because there is no incentive for them to. Why don't we try that, before we put impossible requirements on third parties that they will fight?



If ISP sign on to the code of conduct the idea is that there is a tool in place to keep bad actors in check in the commercial space. In other words the THREAT of being blocked should be enough of a hassle to the big tech companies that they will actually enforce their terms and conditions or in the case of Spotify actually bother to create them. Right now there is no onus on them to be responsible AT ALL, rather it a race to the bottom as they will put out what ever creates the most clicks for their content regardless of the irresponsibility of it.

Going to the source of the offender and asking them to play nice when there is zero downsides for them isn't working. Fines are seen as the cost of doing business, we need a credible threat to CUT THEM OFF.


How can ISPs sign an code of conduct (that the CRTC already makes them follow) for content they don't produce or distribute? You are making Canada Post responsible for the racist literature.

Tech companies already follow a set of rules in places like Europe. Try that before you force a technically impossible thing on internet providers.

   



Scape @ Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:32 pm

To be clear this would be a complaint process by citizens which in turn would be cataloged and reviewed by ombudsman. Upon sufficient volume of complaints determined to be valid would then be forwarded to the ISP for takedown as required IF the offending site is not responding to remedial actions. As to the HOW of the ISP removing the site there is a variety of options to delist such as removing the site from search engine results or a disclaimer sent to the customers advising that the site is in violation of the act and much like the napster was taken down by the RIAA and that they are may be incurring risk of lawsuit by visiting.

In short this is a lot of noise but would deter the vast majority of legitimate commercial traffic. The ultimate goal is to put the onus on remedial action back on to the offending site rather than a take down.

   



CDN_PATRIOT @ Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:10 pm

DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Federal modelling suggests 'very intense' Omicron surge within weeks


Meh.



-J.

   



DrCaleb @ Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:56 pm

Scape Scape:
As to the HOW of the ISP removing the site there is a variety of options to delist such as removing the site from search engine results or a disclaimer sent to the customers advising that the site is in violation of the act and much like the napster was taken down by the RIAA and that they are may be incurring risk of lawsuit by visiting.

In short this is a lot of noise but would deter the vast majority of legitimate commercial traffic. The ultimate goal is to put the onus on remedial action back on to the offending site rather than a take down.


Perhaps they could just wave their wand and say "Expecto Patronas", because that would be just as effective.

"The Internet sees censorship as a fault, and routs around it."

   



Gunnair @ Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:05 pm

bootlegga bootlegga:
rickc rickc:
Thanos Thanos:
Beck's not allowed to let a day pass without saying "internment camps" at least once. It's in his contract, the one that turned him into a multi-millionaire through peddling hysteria to complete & total gullible morons.

Wonder what the US could have been without that streak of insane paranoia about literally everything that runs through their national blood. How much more could they have accomplished, before their inevitable disintegration began, if so many of them hadn't been hiding behind locked doors cradling loaded guns in sheer terror for most of their lives of for someone (government, Negro, Jew, commie, Chinese food delivery guy, etc) "coming to get them". Like, it's kind of not normal or healthy for a massive percentage of an entire nation's population to think & behave that way. :|


Have you ever even been to the U.S.?


Thanos isn't totally wrong - I've travelled off and on to the US for 30 years, and everything changed after Dubya was elected and 9/11 happened.

The US went from an incredibly friendly and welcoming place with a few fringe nutjobs to one where scared and paranoid people terrified of non-white Christian Americans are no longer the fringe, but a very large and very vocal minority.

It's quite sad to see that those changes to the US were made by 'patriots' and not the 9/11 terrorists.


In many ways the terrorists won. They struck such a fear into the country that they have eventually turned on each other now that the threat has mostly passed. Add to that, the ability for state actors to fuel that fear and ideologues that have easy access to spread content and the US is a perfect example of an empire slowly collapsing before our eyes. Why wouldn't weaker actors like Russia, China, and NK want to take advantage of that? Europe won't step up - they equally divided and a mess.

   



Scape @ Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:05 pm

DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Scape Scape:
As to the HOW of the ISP removing the site there is a variety of options to delist such as removing the site from search engine results or a disclaimer sent to the customers advising that the site is in violation of the act and much like the napster was taken down by the RIAA and that they are may be incurring risk of lawsuit by visiting.

In short this is a lot of noise but would deter the vast majority of legitimate commercial traffic. The ultimate goal is to put the onus on remedial action back on to the offending site rather than a take down.


Perhaps they could just wave their wand and say "Expecto Patronas", because that would be just as effective.

"The Internet sees censorship as a fault, and routs around it."


This again? The internet may indeed see censorship as a fault and route a bypass but commercial interests that require to be seen to ply their wares are not the same thing. They are in effect a fixed target on the web and that can be used the reign them in. I'm not asking we ban the dark web, rather regulating commerce. If we can not regulate commerce we can not control our boarders and if we can't control our boarders we have no sovereignty.

   



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