Omnibus COVID-19 virus discussion thread
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rickc @ Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:19 pm
raydan raydan:
I used to take a camping trip down south every year. When the Orange Man threw his hat in the ring, things just changed. I haven't been back since, probably never will.
Camping in New England?
PluggyRug @ Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:20 am
raydan @ Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:27 am
rickc rickc:
raydan raydan:
I used to take a camping trip down south every year. When the Orange Man threw his hat in the ring, things just changed. I haven't been back since, probably never will.
Camping in New England?
White Mountains, but also the Smokey Mountains.
rickc @ Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:06 am
raydan raydan:
White Mountains, but also the Smokey Mountains.
Nice! New England is the only part of the U.S. where I have seen restaurants print menus in French as well as English. Large parts of the country have menus printed in Spanish as well as English, but not French. New England was also the only area where the businesses would accept Canadian money. A lot of the businesses would have "at par" days as well.
DrCaleb @ Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:42 am
Scape Scape:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Scape Scape:
As to the HOW of the ISP removing the site there is a variety of options to delist such as removing the site from search engine results or a disclaimer sent to the customers advising that the site is in violation of the act and much like the napster was taken down by the RIAA and that they are may be incurring risk of lawsuit by visiting.
In short this is a lot of noise but would deter the vast majority of legitimate commercial traffic. The ultimate goal is to put the onus on remedial action back on to the offending site rather than a take down.
In short this is a lot of noise but would deter the vast majority of legitimate commercial traffic. The ultimate goal is to put the onus on remedial action back on to the offending site rather than a take down.
Perhaps they could just wave their wand and say "Expecto Patronas", because that would be just as effective.
"The Internet sees censorship as a fault, and routs around it."
This again? The internet may indeed see censorship as a fault and route a bypass but commercial interests that require to be seen to ply their wares are not the same thing.
This again, because you don't seem to be grasping the concept. Encrypted data is all the same. You can't see it. You don't know what it is. Therefore you can't quantify and block it based on content.
Commercial and non commercial interests are exactly the same thing, when it comes to encrypted data.
Scape Scape:
They are in effect a fixed target on the web and that can be used the reign them in. I'm not asking we ban the dark web, rather regulating commerce.
No, they are not a fixed target. Every major service uses some sort of virtualisation technology, that scales their processor count at different times of days and for different loads. This means they are constantly changing. They change data centers, they change IP addresses, they use caching services like Cloudfare or Amazon Cloud services. They are a camouflaged moving target on a moonless night.
And when you encrypt all that information, it all looks the same.
Scape Scape:
If we can not regulate commerce we can not control our boarders and if we can't control our boarders we have no sovereignty.
The internet is borderless, and transports data, not people. That is how it was designed. We have never been able to control it, nor will we ever, Insha Allah. But we can regulate how companies treat our citizens and their data. Let's try that before we force ISPs to nail jello to a wall.
CDN_PATRIOT @ Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:45 am
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
The internet is borderless, and transports data, not people. That is how it was designed. We have never been able to control it, nor will we ever, Insha Allah. But we can regulate how companies treat our citizens and their data. Let's try that before we force ISPs to nail jello to a wall.
Which should be the biggest priority, IMHO.
-J.
Scape @ Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:06 pm
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Commercial and non commercial interests are exactly the same thing, when it comes to encrypted data.
I cited napster earlier. Do you think when the RIAA sent out letters en masse to 12 year olds saying they are breaking terms and conditions and they could find their ass in court even if they weren't even a US citizen that didn't have an impact on the volume of traffic? Even if the threat itself it wildly impractical the fact that it it being willed at all will have an effect on anyone deciding on even trying. Arrest intake, arrest growth.
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
No, they are not a fixed target. Every major service uses some sort of virtualisation technology, that scales their processor count at different times of days and for different loads. This means they are constantly changing. They change data centers, they change IP addresses, they use caching services like Cloudfare or Amazon Cloud services. They are a camouflaged moving target on a moonless night.
And when you encrypt all that information, it all looks the same.
And when you encrypt all that information, it all looks the same.
Ok, sure. Yet, somehow we can use banks even thou our bank notes can still be forged. Try again. Just because we can encrypt doesn't mean codes are unbreakable, just ask the Uboats in ww2.
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
The internet is borderless, and transports data, not people. That is how it was designed. We have never been able to control it, nor will we ever, Insha Allah. But we can regulate how companies treat our citizens and their data. Let's try that before we force ISPs to nail jello to a wall.
I am fully supporting going after the source directly but what if that isn't enough? Right now we have a feed back loop. What is the 1st thing you do to stop that?
PluggyRug @ Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:42 am
PluggyRug @ Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:43 am
DrCaleb @ Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:38 am
Scape Scape:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Commercial and non commercial interests are exactly the same thing, when it comes to encrypted data.
I cited napster earlier. Do you think when the RIAA sent out letters en masse to 12 year olds saying they are breaking terms and conditions and they could find their ass in court even if they weren't even a US citizen that didn't have an impact on the volume of traffic? Even if the threat itself it wildly impractical the fact that it it being willed at all will have an effect on anyone deciding on even trying. Arrest intake, arrest growth.
Yes, you cited Napster, but a lot has changed in the intervening decades. Encryption, like I mentioned. VPNs. Tunneling. The way they do it now is to insert a poison pill machine in a torrent stream, and if a PC looks up it's address, they record that and sue the person, if they aren't using a VPN. And if they aren't using a VPN, they deserve it.
They are otherwise unable to see what you are downloading.
Scape Scape:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
No, they are not a fixed target. Every major service uses some sort of virtualisation technology, that scales their processor count at different times of days and for different loads. This means they are constantly changing. They change data centers, they change IP addresses, they use caching services like Cloudfare or Amazon Cloud services. They are a camouflaged moving target on a moonless night.
And when you encrypt all that information, it all looks the same.
And when you encrypt all that information, it all looks the same.
Ok, sure. Yet, somehow we can use banks even thou our bank notes can still be forged. Try again. Just because we can encrypt doesn't mean codes are unbreakable, just ask the Uboats in ww2.
You know data is virtual, and WWII was 70 years ago, right? Before Digital Computers and the Internet? If this conversation were encrypted, the fastest computer out there would take millennia to crack it, at which time the conversation would be meaningless.
Have a look into encryption protocols. You would be surprised how secure they are. To things like Banks.
Scape Scape:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
The internet is borderless, and transports data, not people. That is how it was designed. We have never been able to control it, nor will we ever, Insha Allah. But we can regulate how companies treat our citizens and their data. Let's try that before we force ISPs to nail jello to a wall.
I am fully supporting going after the source directly but what if that isn't enough? Right now we have a feed back loop. What is the 1st thing you do to stop that?
Why can we not go after the source? When have we tried? When has ever going after a third party stopped anything between the other two?
The only way to make ISPs responsible, is - to use the post office analogy - to let them open everyone's mail and read it. And you know they will record it, and store it for later (claiming it is 'anonymized') Is that the society you want? Or do you want corporations responsible for the public harm they enable?
Scape @ Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:30 pm
Scape @ Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:40 pm
Scape @ Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:26 pm
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
The internet is borderless, and transports data, not people. That is how it was designed. We have never been able to control it, nor will we ever, Insha Allah. But we can regulate how companies treat our citizens and their data. Let's try that before we force ISPs to nail jello to a wall.
The only way to make ISPs responsible, is - to use the post office analogy - to let them open everyone's mail and read it. And you know they will record it, and store it for later (claiming it is 'anonymized') Is that the society you want? Or do you want corporations responsible for the public harm they enable?
The only way to make ISPs responsible, is - to use the post office analogy - to let them open everyone's mail and read it. And you know they will record it, and store it for later (claiming it is 'anonymized') Is that the society you want? Or do you want corporations responsible for the public harm they enable?
Right tool for the right job. Facebook, Google et al are in the business of selling ads NOT moderation. You want laws to be enforced you use lawmakers not algorithms and terms and conditions that not only vary from company to company or industry to industry but nation to nation as well. All with their own cultures and laws and agenda which have NOTHING to do with a consistent platform.
THIS is what happens when you let laws and protocols left up to the market. I would LOVE to have the site/platforms make a cohesive Mangna Carta for how to act online but what happens is shitty enforcement and biased moderation with the people who complain get banned yet the trolls get away with actual murder because they are whitelisted and are whales on the platform so are untouchable.
DrCaleb @ Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:58 am
Scape Scape:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
The internet is borderless, and transports data, not people. That is how it was designed. We have never been able to control it, nor will we ever, Insha Allah. But we can regulate how companies treat our citizens and their data. Let's try that before we force ISPs to nail jello to a wall.
The only way to make ISPs responsible, is - to use the post office analogy - to let them open everyone's mail and read it. And you know they will record it, and store it for later (claiming it is 'anonymized') Is that the society you want? Or do you want corporations responsible for the public harm they enable?
The only way to make ISPs responsible, is - to use the post office analogy - to let them open everyone's mail and read it. And you know they will record it, and store it for later (claiming it is 'anonymized') Is that the society you want? Or do you want corporations responsible for the public harm they enable?
Right tool for the right job. Facebook, Google et al are in the business of selling ads NOT moderation. You want laws to be enforced you use lawmakers not algorithms and terms and conditions that not only vary from company to company or industry to industry but nation to nation as well. All with their own cultures and laws and agenda which have NOTHING to do with a consistent platform.
Assumes facts not in evidence.
As I wrote earlier, legislate metrics that social media companies must post. I never wrote that they should be left to self regulation. Right now, all they have to publish by law are their financial statements. Make them responsible for other metrics, like the number of children who demonstrate signs of self harm monthly, number who describe eating disorders, etc. We know they pay attention to things like this, and can monitor it, through whistle blowers.
Let's find out what they know, then we can figure out what they need to change.
Scape Scape:
THIS is what happens when you let laws and protocols left up to the market. I would LOVE to have the site/platforms make a cohesive Mangna Carta for how to act online but what happens is shitty enforcement and biased moderation with the people who complain get banned yet the trolls get away with actual murder because they are whitelisted and are whales on the platform so are untouchable.
Online speech is still speech. There are already legal standards as to when speech changes from talk to harm. What the platforms need is an actual policy or regulation with regards to monitoring and what do do with violators.
DrCaleb @ Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:30 am
Health Canada expected to approve Pfizer's COVID-19 therapeutic today: sources
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