Why The World Needs Nuclear Power
DrCaleb @ Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:36 am
Delwin Delwin:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Delwin Delwin:
Why would we build a pipeline for oil that is only viable to extract at $100+ a barrel ? So it can sit unused whenever the Saudi's decide to up production ? Illogical.
Oilsands oil is viable starting around $30. Right now it's going for about $15. And the main reason to use synthetic crude is it costs less to refine, given many impurities are already removed.
Mostly from experience (I've worked at several plants, and the Department of Energy), but also:
$1:
Breakeven costs for existing projects such as Kearl Phase 1 stand at US$42 per barrel, with Husky’s Lloydminster (US$28), Cenvous’ Christina Lake ($26) and Suncor operations (US$30.3), all comfortably below WTI’s current price of US$46 per barrel, Citibank data shows.
http://business.financialpost.com/news/ ... s-projects
$1:
Net Energy WCS Closing Price* -$13.75 USD/BBL $15.67
http://www.dailyoilbulletin.com/
WCS= Western Canada Select, a blend of heavy and light synthetic crudes.
Delwin @ Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:39 am
OK, so breaking even, and being viable are obviously 2 completely different animals, but my point still stands. Why would we build a pipline for oil production that is currenly not breaking even, nor viable ?
Oil price 1040 am - $27.28
andyt @ Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:46 am
Delwin Delwin:
OK, so breaking even, and being viable are obviously 2 completely different animals, but my point still stands. Why would we build a pipline for oil production that is currenly not breaking even, nor viable ?
Oil price 1040 am - $27.28
Oil price 1040 am - $27.28
Well, the oil companies didn't, since they saw no quick profit in it. If we, as in Canada, built that pipeline, it would have to be part of a big picture where we, as in Canada, also owns at least part of the oil production and refining capablity. Seems Trudeau the elder may have actually had a point. Seems to me that would make sense, instead of shipping all those Canadian dollars to the US to buy back our oil in a refined state.
But of course in Canada we are more comfortable selling our resources to foreign ownership which doesn't always make decisions that are best for Canada. I guess we'll never get over our branch plant (at best) or banana republic mentality.
DrCaleb @ Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:57 am
Delwin Delwin:
OK, so breaking even, and being viable are obviously 2 completely different animals, but my point still stands. Why would we build a pipline for oil production that is currenly not breaking even, nor viable ?
Because a pipeline also allows exportation of the oil, not just consumption. It's vital for land-locked Alberta companies to be able to ship oil to somewhere other than the US Gulf Coast. That limits the options they have, getting oil to tide water opens options.
Delwin Delwin:
Oil price 1040 am - $27.28
That's for {North Sea} Brent Crude though. The price of 'Oil' isn't always the price of 'oil'.
Alberta oil usually is based on WTI - or West Texas Intermediate. Synthetic crude oil sells as 'WCS'. Raw Bitumen is another thing all together.
andyt @ Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:20 am
Except that the Brent is always higher than anything we can get for our stuff.
Thanos @ Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:28 am
Delwin Delwin:
Why would we build a pipeline for oil that is only viable to extract at $100+ a barrel ? So it can sit unused whenever the Saudi's decide to up production ? Illogical. The only reason would be to create security for a failed industry. We would be forced to subsidize oil production to justify the costs of the project and we would have a new brand of roughneck welfare.
Uhmm....
1) Nationalism?
2) Permanent energy independence from what the fucktards on the rest of the planet get up to?
3) Not pouring money into the treasuries of murderers like the Saudis and Iranians?
4) A permanent source of royalty wealth flowing into the Canadian treasury so we can maintain our standard of living and finance all kinds of social programs?
5) The knowledge that an in-Canada/for-Canada energy policy creates tens of thousands of permanent good paying jobs in places like Alberta and Saskatchewan?
Yeah, I know I got a good laugh out of #5 too.
andyt @ Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:33 am
Without Canada owning some of the resource and refining capability, it's just a subsidy to foreign oil interests. What are they going to pay to use he pipeline? Can't force them to ship thru it, and they'd just whipsaw the govt by sending oil south if they didn't like the transmission costs. If Canada is going to build pipelines, it would need a whole rethink of our oil industry to move more towards the Norwegian model. Doubt that's in the cards.
DrCaleb @ Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:26 am
andyt andyt:
Except that the Brent is always higher than anything we can get for our stuff.
'Syncrude Sweet Blend' used to go for 10-20% over Brent and WTI, because it's cheaper and cleaner to refine. In the good ol' days though. Now there is such an oversupply because they can't ship it fast enough.
And once companies pull it out of the ground and they pay royalties on it, it's 'their' stuff. What they do with it is their problem.
Delwin @ Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:32 am
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Delwin Delwin:
OK, so breaking even, and being viable are obviously 2 completely different animals, but my point still stands. Why would we build a pipline for oil production that is currenly not breaking even, nor viable ?
Because a pipeline also allows exportation of the oil, not just consumption. It's vital for land-locked Alberta companies to be able to ship oil to somewhere other than the US Gulf Coast. That limits the options they have, getting oil to tide water opens options.
Delwin Delwin:
Oil price 1040 am - $27.28
That's for {North Sea} Brent Crude though. The price of 'Oil' isn't always the price of 'oil'.
Alberta oil usually is based on WTI - or West Texas Intermediate. Synthetic crude oil sells as 'WCS'. Raw Bitumen is another thing all together.
Exactly you are strengthening my point.
From 2 hours ago:
Oil Continues to Fall as WTI Hits Lowest Price Since 2003
http://www.wsj.com/articles/oil-sinks-b ... 1453267718
DrCaleb @ Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:54 am
What point? "Why would a pipeline company build a pipeline so that oil companies would pay them to ship their oil to different places"?
What does that have to do with oil prices? Aren't they two totally opposite things? 