Canada Kicks Ass
I am here for help...from Albertans...preferably Lawyers


TheRealHambone @ Wed Apr 14, 2004 11:31 pm

Who I am is unimportant at the moment...what I have to say is
Even if you are not a lawyer you might find this story interesting/scary

I was asked about this situation while sitting at a friends bar (her family owns several bar/restaurants)

Her sister has this very interesting dilemma...

While working one night at a restaurant owned by her mother, the daughter (who was working as a waitress at the time and is a registered, regular employee) had to move her car. The space was a designated employee parking spot but during the warm weather they wanted to take the time to clean and spray the area around the dumpster. Being too busy at the time with her tables she asked one of the kitchen staff, ***who is her subordinate***, to move her car for her. The male staff member accepted the task without bringing anything up and took her keys. However in the process of moving the vehicle the staff member proceeded to back into the front of another employees vehicle causing damage estimated at over $1000. (This happened in Alberta, Canada where the law states any garage cannot conduct repairs on vehicles with over $1000 damage without a filed police report)

Now this is where things get really interesting...

The kitchen guy DOES NOT have a license and certainly does not have any insurance of his own. The person whose vehicle damaged does not want to include the insurance company (the guy offered to pay for all damages over a certain period of time) HOWEVER the damaged car cannot be repaired without a police report which requires the driver's insurance info. The waitress meanwhile has been involved in three other accidents and cannot afford to take responsibility for another. However if she were to say that she willingly handed over her car to a person without a license and insurance then I am sure she broke several laws (as to the specifics I'm not sure...but I believe this to be quite illegal)

I suggested she talk to a lawyer but she refused saying that she couldn't afford one.

I further suggested that she investigate claiming this as a work related accident...***The Problem being*** her mother owns the restaurant so she will, for lack of a better word, fuck over her family.

A very interesting, complex situation

If anybody wants to make suggestions or just affirm that she should seek legal counsel on this matter, I will forward your comments to her


RoyalHighlander @ Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:31 am

As far asI know if ya bring a car to get fixed at a body shop and you are gonna pay cash, you dont need a police report...If there was an accident, and the damage is under 1000.00 a police report is not other words the cops WONT do one for you... As far as "HAVING " to do a police report for an incident over 1000.00 dollars.. I dont see where you are obligated to get a report.. especially if you are going to pay cash for repairs.. and everything is agreed upon by both parties too...I suggest she finds anotyher body shop toi get the work done.. If sdhe is in the Edmonton area I may even be able to suggest a place she can go to get the work done.. Also I can find out 100% for sure later today about the mandatory police report BS too...


TheRealHambone @ Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:19 am

Technically it is illegal for a garage to repair a car with damage over a 1000.00 and they must receive a "sticker" which they must display on the car proving that a police report was filed. It doesn't happen often but apparently the police do random inspections of cars being worked on. No dealership would touch this with a ten foot pole but I am sure that there are smaller garages who would do the work for cash no problem...


The victims father, who bought the car and pays the insurance, INSISTS on getting the drivers insurance and registration. He will apparently have nothing to do with the off the record cash thing. I believe he plans to go to the police if he doesn't have it by next week. Failure to provide such information at an accident is a crime in itself

ooohhh this is so fucked up


Mukluk @ Thu Apr 15, 2004 5:18 pm

I am not a lawyer - thank God - yet this all seems so clear to me.

Let's call the sister that owns the car "idiot", and the guy that drove the car with no license "retard" in order to simplify.

Idiot did not drive without a license, retard did. Idiot has nothing to fear from the police. If I gave you a gun and asked if you would shoot someone for me, would ya? Ignorance of the law is not even a defence, so I don't think he has a leg to stand on.

Employers are not allowed to force workers to do something unsafe or illegal, so even if she ORDERED him to move the car as a function of his job, he did not have to. Further, moving someone's car is clearly not work related, and he'd have a tough time proving that one.

Retard is in trouble with the cops, period, and idiot should have no hesitation about making a statement for the police record to get the car fixed. Do you think that retard has enough money to pursue a legal case against idiot and her family? I doubt it.

Retard is presumably old enough to know that you cannot drive without a license, even on private property. And I assume that he knew he did not have one :)

Idiot needs to protect herself from litigation by reporting what happened and not trying to cover things up. Retard is going to be punished, although the extent to which this would occur would be dependent on history, etc. Hell, the cops may not even charge him, who knows.

Idiot has done nothing illegal or wrong in IMHO, and better set the record straight pdq. She is responsible for her vehicle, which is why photo radar tickets are enforceable to the registered owner, but I think that would limit her liability to the cost of damages.

RH - I hit a dog west of Edmonton once, and was told I needed to get the police report and sticker before I could get the repair work completed because the damage was significant enough that it could have been over $1000. (hit the dog on a divided highway at 125kph).

I would love to know how this story turns out.



Mermaid @ Fri May 28, 2004 9:56 am

I work in Ontario so I'm not 100% sure of Alberta's version of the Highway Traffic Act but I'd be surprised if it was much different in this area.

The accident happened in the parking lot? You need to be on a roadway for driving offences. Parking lots are not a roadway so the act does not apply.

So now it depends on why the guys licence was under suspension. There are 2 choices, a provincial suspension (usually for unpaid fines, to many demerit points, etc) or a Criminal Code suspension (impaired driving, Dangerous driving, Criminal negligence cause injury or death, etc)

If it's a prov suspension I expect it will bar him from operating a motor vehicle on any roadway in Alberta. Parking lot would be okay, so no offence.

If however it was a criminal code suspension he's done, because it says you can't operate a motor vehicle anywhere in Canada, so the parking lot is included.

Tell your friend to find out what sort of suspension it is and if it's provincial to call the local coppers, be it city or mountie, and ask for clarification.

Alberta has a different insurance system in place so I don't feel qualified to answer that part of the question other than to say in Ontario she's be okay.


Zenfisher @ Fri May 28, 2004 11:41 pm

Do you have to fix the car in Alberta? I'm sure there are plenty of places in BC or Saskatchewan to repair it. If its not driveable tow it. Mermaid brought up an interesting point....if the car wasn't driven on a roadway, was there a violation of driving while suspended ? Is the law vague here ? Ignorance of the law is no excuse, but if the restaurant owner was under the impression the driver had his licence, I cannot forsee(this is a guess) the police insisting that charges be laid against her.

Get another estimate. Its possible you could get a cheaper estimate, in which case, it may fall under the $1000. When all else fails a lawyer.


RoyalHighlander @ Sat May 29, 2004 7:56 am

I may be wrong then in my last post... And yes about every car you see in AB tyhat has accident damage has a small white sticker in the window showing what the damage is etc.. So I think you may be right on this one


karra @ Sat May 29, 2004 11:08 am

In Ontario the HTA does not apply to private property - the Criminal Code however does - it contains a couple of charges that deal with conveyances and private property - such as Dangerous Driving and the various components of Criminal Negligence.


Mermaid @ Sun May 30, 2004 4:30 pm

karra karra:
In Ontario the HTA does not apply to private property - the Criminal Code however does - it contains a couple of charges that deal with conveyances and private property - such as Dangerous Driving and the various components of Criminal Negligence.

Actually parts of the HTA do apply on private property, itÂ’s the rules of the road part that donÂ’t (because you have to be on a roadway).

I can think of 2 quick examples.

ItÂ’s an offence under the HTA to knowingly make a false statement. DoesnÂ’t say anything about a roadway. Most common place that one gets laid is in an MTO office for lying about having insurance when you sign you plate application or renewal declaration.

Another one is having a red light to the front. You canÂ’t have one in a car, period. You can be charged for it in a parking lot. DoesnÂ’t even have to be on, just in the car.