Marijuana Party

Well Kevin, growing up in the late 60's-70's I experience the pot generation, saturation period, although no I didn't try and not inhale...but I certainly was around it alot, there wasn't any place you could be in a group that someone wasn't smoking it. So here is my opinion, I don't like it, I hate the smell, and I really don't appreciate the sense of humour that goes with it; not that I mind people having a good time, I just really like reality better.

Also I have concerns about teens using it, I don't have stats but I have as I said seen people who use alot and the effect isn't pleasant. No motivation, no enthusiasm for life, just a lax attitude about everything. Now I'm not saying alcohol isn't bad, it can be, and smoking is not good either, but smoking doesn't change your personality, and alcohol in moderation doesn't either. I guess I am saying that legalizing it isn't my real concern, it's the abuse, the companies that will end up promoting it as the 'safe' drug for a new generation etc. I don't think there is such a thing as a safe drug, and it makes no sense to spend money like water to try to get young people not to smoke and it seems to be working in reverse, then to legalize marijuana and then what spend money trying to get them to quit?

So call me old fashioned but I just see the negatives in this, and also the vote buying angle, and corporate angle and on and on.

Tobacco and akahol cause more problems than pot don't they? I think it's contradictory to have marijuana criminalised & alcohol & tobacco totally legal. Think about it this way: if people have problems (addiction, drunk driving, etc) with alcohol owners of liquor stores or distilleries aren't fined or arrested; if people have smoking problems (lung cancer, etc) tobacco companies sure aren't fined or shut down; if someone's overweight, McDonald's stores don't get shut down. But when someone tokes up, whether or not they get any health problems or even if they don't smoke it but only possess it or are involved in making it available to the public they get locked up? Doesn't make sense to me. :roll:

I think it should be legalised. Usage would spike a bit at the beginning because people would want to see what the fuss is about if they haven't tried it, but then usage would taper off.

[QUOTE BY= N Say] Tobacco and akahol cause more problems than pot don't they? I think it's contradictory to have marijuana criminalised & alcohol & tobacco totally legal. [/QUOTE] True, but don't assume Cannibus is any less dangerous or addictive than Alcohol and Nicotine. THC may have some excellent medical benefits, and hemp (the male part of Cannibus) has some fantastic textile properties. but 'Vitamin M' has the same ability to destroy lives as cocaine or heroin, can be just as toxic as cigarrettes and alcohol (and coffee for that matter), and just as addictive as all of them. It should be legalized, or tobacco should be outlawed. We should be consistent about our poisons.

I'd like to see any evidence you have that marijuana has destroyed anyones life other than by being persecuted by the legal system. My Doctor smokes marijuana. In the early seventies the doctor I had at the time recommended that I smoke grass, he said it was a lot better for a body than alcohol, tobacco or any of the vast array of tranquilizers and anti-depressants that are dispensed by the medical profession (he was 61 years old ). I don't think that kids ( 15 years and under ) should be smoking it but if it is a choice between grass and alcohol, tobacco or some pharmaceutical then I think grass is the best choice. Besides that, I don't know what kids are going through, the mess of a world that they have to deal with is so much worse than what I was faced with at their age that I don't feel good about the "I know what's best for you " attitude. Marijuana is mildly psychologically addictive, it is not a physical addiction like alcohol or tobacco.

Nsay you said it best. And I totally agree with what yoru saying. I actually had those same arguments as you and its nice to see you mention them.

When will tobacco companies or alcohol companies be liable for death? Sadly they never will.

Kevin

Milton,

I agree with what your saying also. I will explain my own story from my own experience. My experience is sort of a negative and a positive for marijuana. I started smoking home grown when I was about 15. I quit when I was 18 without any problems at all. I didn't feel addicted to it. I quit cause my schooling and life I realized was not in order.

I will admit that marijuana made me lazy with school and stuff. But even though I admit it I wonder if the marijuana was the real reason or if it was actually my low self esteem and the fear of being around a large amount of teenagers who I felt too different from to hang out with. I felt very alone cause while other kids were cruel and everyone was concerned with fashion and worrying about looks and stuff, I just didn't feel connected to those groups. I really didn't feel comfortable in the school environment.

Also I know friends of mine who smoked allot when they were teenagers and today they still do. Interesting enough they all graduated and I didn't. I know someone now who has lived a successful life working for the same company for that past 25 years and this person is now 40 years old still smoking pot.

In my opinion moderation smoking of marijuana is in my opinion o.k However I encourage smokers to use something like the vaporizor which takes away from allowing smoke to go into the lungs.

I'll say it again. If anyone in my family was to have an illness that Marijuana can help, I would encourage them to smoke pot before trying pharmaceutical drugs. If I had teenagers of my own I would also rather see them taking pot then alcohol or tobacco. Pot through a vaporizor has no health risk like alcohol or tobacco does.

Kevin

[QUOTE BY= Milton]Marijuana is mildly psychologically addictive, it is not a physical addiction like alcohol or tobacco.[/QUOTE] I don't have to show proof, when I can give you my testamonial. MJ has a powerful psycological addiction - as anything can be under the right circumstances. Out of highschool, I spent a few years in the military. I did tours in the Gulf, Somalia and then Bosnia. Three really rough tours. In Bosnia I was in a particularally rough battle, called the Medak Pocket. Nasty, the worst Canadian troops had seen since Korea. Some of my friends were killed in a rocket attack on our APC, and I was injured beyond the point where I could perform my duties, so I was given a medical discharge. When I returned home, partially due to the coverup that was the federal inquiry into events in Somalia and the disbanding of my current assignment in the Airborne Infantry, I found that Canada did not know about nor give a crap about what had gone on over in Bosnia. To this day, revealing that I was Airborne in Somalia is tantamout to working at Abu Ghraib is today. My telling you that has most likely changed your opinion of me, when in reality only a few people were involved in that incident. MJ was my escape from reality. It let me not care, not have to deal with all the conflicts within. I used it, and ended up needing it to prevent me from putting a bullet in my own head. I spent 4 years in College/University unable to remember simple things, like where my locker was. My wife divorced me. I think. I don't to this day even know where she lives. A couple years later my father passed away from a heart attack due to smoking, and my mother was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer from the same. This finally snapped me back into reality. I had to break this addiction, and deal with my demons. I spent a lot of time at AADAC, on couches looking at inkblots that looked like inkblots. I was physically addicted to cannibus as much as mentally addicted to it. The downward spiral is a difficult thing. The paranoia, the shakes, the depression, the anxiety attacks - not a good combination to have in someone who killed for a living. As with any addiction, the climb back up has taught me a few things. Currently, caffine and nicotine are my crutches. I'll deal with them at some point. Both will kill you in sufficient quantities. IIRC 100mg/kg body mass of caffine in a 6 hour period will kill 90% of the population. Drinking 10 litres of water in 2 hours is also fatal. And family will do anyting for you, if you only ask. All I'm saying is don't delude yourself by saying MJ is not addictive. Anything can be an addiction. Coffee, Tea, Alcohol, glue, hot peppers - whatever. I just would like some consistency - legalize MJ, or ban coffee, tobacco etc. TCH can be a powerful natural painkiller, so I'd lean toward legalize.

Thank you Kevin for sharing your experiences, and thank you Dr. Caleb for sharing yours; neither experiences you mention are a pro marijuana argument for sure. Dr. Caleb my opinion of you could not change because you were serving your country in the most horrific circumstances. You did what you had to do, and unfortunately as with most soldiers in war, your country sends you into it, then tries to forget what they did! I have nothing but admiration for your ability to adjust, to work through your demons and to be willing to help educate the rest of us. Thank you.

Still I think the decriminalization would be good, but I am afraid that some corporation will through the government, take advantage of this. Look at the taxes on cigarettes and alcohol, the government is making a killing...literally! A pack of cig cost about .50 in reality, but most people pay about $10.00 to 15.00, then the government spents millions on ads to promote quitting. So the cig companies make money on sales, the gov on tax, the ad companies on 'please quit' propaganda! They could easily do the same with marijuana.

Thanks C Sharp. It's comforting to know some people do not hold the actions of a few against the entire Batallion. The US honoured the PPCLI involved in the Medak Pocket with the Bronze Star, but 7 years after the fact. My argument is that MJ is addictive, but so are many other things. From a medical and textile perspective, cannibus should be legal.

Dr. Caleb the gov must be 'improving' it took them something like 50 years to recognize the vets from Korea!

Connecting The Cannabis Community Prohibition is Harmful Failed Unjust Speak Out and Attend one of these events to support legalizing marijuana and protecting medical users rights. Have I reached the party to whom I'm speaking? On Aug 21 we are having our second annual Canabian Day Festival and we managed so far to organize it in three cities which are Toronto Hamilton and Niagara Falls Ontario. Because of the tremendous support we got from our friends on the American side of the border at our recent Hwy 420 Smoke Out in Niagara Falls on April 20 2004 we would wish you could help us spread the word about our upcoming summer festival. Our web site is www.canabianday.ca for the Festival and for info on the Hwy 420 Smoke Out visit at www.cannabiscanada.ca . I am compilling a list of pot friendly forums and if it's OK I intend to have yours included in that list. Sorry to ramble so and hope to receive a positive reply. Buzz

Buzzz, cool sites.

Kevin

I don't think anyone anywhere should EVER have the right to tell anyone else what they can or cannot put into their bodies. My theory is that as long as your rights do not intrude upon other people, they should not be limited. And I mean this in the broad sense where polluting impedes on others' ability to breathe properly, for example. So if people are educated about the risks, they should be allowed to do it as they see fit. Just not young teenagers or in schools. All the arguments AGAINST pot are the effects of situations surrounding the drug and its use. They're not about the drug's actual effects. The medicinal effects of pot can be achieved through cooking methods or vaporisation without dealing with most of the negative carcinogens. The money from pot wouldn't go to organised crime if pot wasn't illegal. The psychological effects of pot wouldn't be an issue if people used it responsibly. The real crimes surrounding pot are it's illegal status. The oppressive anti-pot laws are actually a disguised relic of anti-mexican and anti-black laws. In the US, anti-pot laws were put in place in the earlier part of the last century when, after the mexican revolution cost a US media baron hundreds of thousands of acres of timber land. His newspapers started spreading word of these lazy, pot-smoking, illegal mexican immigrants, a stereotype that still thrives today. Then as the mexican immigrants (not all were illegal) spread and along with them, the cheap labour, the white majority started to get scared (if they work more for less, are the mexicans really so lazy?). This media baron kept pushing his messages and when the marijuana use spread to the blacks of New Orleans, he started publishing stories about "marihuana-crazed niggers" (they americanized the spelling, then later changed it to "marijuana" to make it more foreign) trying to assault white women (fear-incitement). In the same newspapers, a white drunk driver who kills 5 or 6 people gets pack-page billing, rather than the front-page marijuana-crazed blacks. The whole foundation of the law in the US is racist. In Canada, the anti-Chinese riots of the same period (early 1900's) were the cause of our anti-opiad laws. These laws are racist in origin and repressive in nature. Substances should be freely available, although people should be educated about them in order to purchase them. (Rather than have access dependent on age, if people were required to pass a knowledge and responsibility test, I think they should be able to buy alcohol and pot).

[QUOTE BY= BuzzzWorthy] I am compilling a list of pot friendly forums and if it's OK I intend to have yours included in that list. Sorry to ramble so and hope to receive a positive reply. [/QUOTE] We're only pot-friendly insofar as it's another viewpoint and we're open to such; vivelecanada.ca has NO official stance on the legalisation of marijuana. I would prefer you not include this site in your list, as it is somewhat off-topic for these forums.

A great deal of my time has been dedicated to the NDP since Jack Layton did the Pot TV interview discussed below and at this very moment the truth of the NDP position is being debated in the news. Behind the scenes (inside the party) lines in the sand are being drawn as the video's, emails, letters, faxes etc all confirming Jack's position on marijuana pour in.

I was a guest at Marc Emery's table who "by the way" attended the Victory Gala in Toronto as did Tim Meehan Pot TV Toronto, Alison Myrden NDP Oakville, Chris Goodwin NDP Executive Youth Officer Hamilton Mountain, Jodie Pressman June 5 Fill The Hill Prohibition Protest Organizer, Alan Young Law Professor, Marko Ivancicevic Cannabis In Canada Protest Organizer just to name a few so could you please accept this post as relevant to the topic instead of an attempt to convey misleading or less than factual information.

While there the opportunity to shake Jack's hand came up which allowed pertinant specific questions to be asked to which I got pertinant specific answers.

So as to familiarize you with my place in the chain here I am but a humble messenger trying to pass on the truth to those who in deed want to hear it.

The following is a snippit from an email I received today. It should be self evident as to it's bearing here on this forum.

Below that is another email I got from the author which is a copy of a responce to same.

If this material is not censored (as on other boards) then I would consider providing more information on meetings, discussions, agreements etc;

Eric Wood
Toronto Ontario
Joint Venture Coordinator
Cannabis In Canada
Connecting the Cannabis Community

http://www.hour.ca/news/news.aspx?iIDArticle=3287

Newshawk: CMAP ( http://www.mapinc.org/cmap )
Pubdate: Thursday, June 3, 2004
Source: Hour Magazine (CN QU)
Contact: [email protected]
Website: http://www.hour.ca/
Author: Charlie McKenzie

Pot infighting on the campaign trail

Where there's smoke there's fire as marijuana advocates face off in
therun-up to the federal election

Charlie McKenzie

Canada's budding marijuana movement has some festering political
fissures that could surface when activists from across the country
gather this weekend on Parliament Hill.

The movement is caught between two Marcs: rock musician Marc Boris
St-Maurice, leader of the ever-fledgling Marijuana Party, and former
ally, B.C.'s millionaire seed salesman Marc Emery, now crusading for
Jack Layton's NDP.

Both will present their cases at Saturday's Fill the Hill rally.

The brainchild of Carleton graduate Jody Pressman, 23, Fill the Hill
was planned well before the election call as a day of forums and
pro-pot speeches. Expected to join St-Maurice and Emery are Osgoode
Hall law professor Alan Young, Tory Senator Pierre Claude Nolin, and
Philippe Lucas, director of Canadians for Safe Access.

A year ago Canada was raising hackles in Washington and eyebrows in
Amsterdam - we seemed to be leading the world in marijuana reform and
hopes were high that pot prohibition would soon end.

That pipe dream fizzled when a Supreme Court decision upheld the
marijuana laws last December. The court tossed it back to the
politicians who dithered throughout the spring on a haphazard
decriminalization bill that, mercifully, died when the election was
called.

"It was eye opening," said Jody Pressman. "There was a clear,
predetermined outcome to change the laws as little as possible."

Politicians have promised marijuana reform for over 30 years, he
points out, but marijuana offences are at record levels today, and he
warns that Parliament's failure to act comes with a heavy price.

"Our legislators need to be held to account," he said. "There is
definitely a correlation between these failed policies and how young
people are least likely to vote."

In previous elections many seeking change in the pot laws were drawn
to the Marijuana Party. While their numbers were never great, they
certainly helped put the issue in the public mind.

Last fall, NDP leader Jack Layton called on Marc Emery and did a
taped
interview for Emery's POT-TV (www.pot-tv.net) - the marijuana
movement has been in turmoil ever since.

On tape, with the obviously overbuzzed Emery, Layton clearly - more
or
less - states: "The NDP would like to see legislation that allows
people to consume marijuana, particularly that they might grow
themselves, and some technique that would allow them to be able to
purchase safely, knowing what the quality is, and have that all be a
legal activity."

For Emery it was both a revelation and a PR windfall.

"When Jack Layton came to my home and recorded those statements," he
said, "it's his way of indicating he wants thousands of new members
to come and take over the reins from these many moribund NDP riding
associations filled with old codgers."

Emery promptly saturated his websites with Layton's remarks.

"Now," he boasts, "the NDP is stuck with the position, even though
the
over-55 folks who control 80 per cent of all NDP riding associations
get nervous every time they hear it."

Politicians change sides faster than a windshield wiper, but they
rarely turn on former allies as vehemently as the self-styled "Prince
of Pot." In various online forums, Emery accused Marc Boris
St-Maurice and the Marijuana Party of "ridiculous, treasonous,
self-indulgent egotism" for even thinking of running against Layton's
NDP.

"Even though there will be Marijuana Party candidates of generally
poor quality, running without my endorsement," he wrote, "loyalty to
our movement requires that we support the NDP. Our movement is badly
served by letting sorry ass people represent them in shoddy campaigns
that have no achievable goals."

Over Emery's objections, the Marijuana Party will field 100-odd
candidates across the country. Party leader St-Maurice isn't losing
sleep over his former colleague's defection but concedes the personal
slurs are bothersome.

"This second-grade name calling is unbecoming," he said. "It's one
thing to choose to work with another party - that's everyone's right
-but it's quite another to attack those fighting for the same cause."

Nor is St-Maurice all that impressed with the NDP's marijuana
position.

"The NDP fall short of being outspoken marijuana activists," he said.
"I fear my predictions of the NDP being a dud when it comes to doobie
are about to come true."

As for the NDP, party officials last week issued a terse statement
disavowing Emery's crusade.

"Mr. Layton did not and does not endorse the legalization of
marijuana," they said. "The NDP endorses its decriminalization."

Emery's activities were not sanctioned by the NDP, they said, nor is
he authorized to speak for the NDP.

Veteran activist Philippe Lucas, director of Canadians for Safe
Access, finds the movement's infighting disturbing.

"I've been quite torn throughout this campaign," he said. "The
important thing for the cannabis community to keep in mind is that we
should absolutely not vote for any party that considers us
'criminals.'"

Another veteran, Mike Foster, is running for the Marijuana Party in
Ottawa Centre.

"At this point," he said, "I think it is more effective to lobby the
major parties rather than join one. Once you join a major political
party your freedoms are limited."

Fill the Hill organiser Jody Pressman stays above the fray, choosing
instead to focus on the movement's objective.

"Whatever party," he says, "the answer is political activism. Get
involved, write essays, research the issue - all these and more, and
the more we do them the sooner Canadians will see an end to this
unjust prohibition against marijuana."

Dear Mr. Charles McKenzie,

My name is Christopher Goodwin, and I am writing to inform you of a major error in your article "Pot shots on the campaign trail" in tomorrows Montreal EXPress, were the NDP is said to indorse a policy without a single reference in your article.

"As for the NDP, they apparently wish Marc Emery would just go away. Period. Late last week party officials issued a terse statement discounting Emery. "Mr. Layton did not and does not endorse the legalization of marijuana," they said. "The NDP endorses its decriminalization." They further state that Marc Emery's activities are not sanctioned by the NDP, nor is he authorized to speak for the NDP at the 'Fill The Hill' rally, "or any other date."

First, who are "they" and who are these "party officials." During a nationally-lauded October, 2003 interview on Pot-Tv.net, NDP Leader Jack Layton was very explicit in his support for legalization of marijuana by refering to it as a "wonderful substance." Layton said that the NDP is "in favor of modernizing Canada's marijuana laws, and creating a legal environment where people can enjoy their marijuana in the peace and quiet of their own home, or in a cafe, without having to worry about being criminalized."

Layton couldn't spell out the details of the NDP's proposals to legalize marijuana in Canada. But he assured Pot-TV viewers that legalization would be a part of a comprehensive update to the NDP platform, which would appear on their website "in the next two or three months." Layton also criticized the Liberal government's proposals to "decriminalize" cannabis possession without allowing people to grow or purchase the herb. Layton said that the NDP supported a system "that allows people to consume marijuana, particularly marijuana they might grow themselves, but also for there to be some sort of technique that allows them to purchase it safely, knowing what the quality is, knowing what's there, and to have that all be a legal activity."

Emery then outlined what he saw as the necessary requirements for cannabis Canadians to support the NDPinstead of the Canadian Marijuana Party. "First, the NDP website must be updated to include very specific anti-prohibition statements regarding marijuana. Plus, Jack Layton needs to continue talking about this issue as often as possible, so that it becomes a top-five issue for the NDP. Finally, if we can get some past Marijuana Party candidates to become NDP candidates, then we can ensure that they do not abandon our message."

Since then, at various appearances throughout the nation, Layton has come out of the closet on pot. Last November 2003 Pot Tv's interview with NDP Leader Jack Layton aired on Global TV. Then in December he was interviewed on Cpac about his Pot policy. Mr. Layton proved once again that he is the leading Political figure in the cannabis reform movement.

On March 17, 2004 Layton appeared at the University of Waterloo, and when asked whether he had ever smoked marijuana, he replied "I never exhaled - that's my story and I'm sticking to it." Almost a week later, Layton appeared at an NDP benefit concert performed by Steven Page of the Barenaked Ladies, the Sadies, and the Constantines. Echoing the sentiments of many in-the-know Canadians, band members told the press that they supported the NDP because of Layton's support for the herb. On the 9th of April, Jack Layton reaafirmed his stance on legalizing marijuana in Canada and implications of legalization on Shaw Cable 4. Then on the 13th of April, Jack Layton was on CBC's Newsworld repeating the same NDP policy.

And just a few days ago (May 30), Layton told reporters that the NDP will extend pharmacare to cover prescription pot. "I've drawn a lot of inspiration from those who are tackling catastrophic illnesses and who are seeking the support for medical use," he said. Layton, furthermore, is no dummy to the politics of legalization versus decriminalization. He and his party, especially NDP MP Libby Davies, worked hard to amend and humanize the decrim bill, with limited success. Davies in particular alerted Canadians that the bill was a sham and in serious need of revision. NDP MPP, Peter Kormos, has appeared at activist demonstrations like Green Truth to speak against prohibition. "Canadians from all walks of life and generations are enjoying trainloads of marijuana," Kormos enthused. "The solution is to legalize it, regulate it, tax it and control it."

Finally, after speaking with Jack Layton personally at his Victory Gala were he promised me quick change, Aylwin Lo, the Communications Officer for the New Democratic Party of Canada sent me a letter March 1st 2004 saying "I've updated our English Issues area with our stance on legalization of marijuana, with a link from the alerts section of our front page. The French version is forthcoming. Let me know if you have any other concerns."

Better yet, marijuana advocate and licensed medpot user Alison Myrden has been nominated as the NDP candidate in Oakville, Ontario, And Crystal LeBlanc in the NDP Ottawa-Vanier riding. Polls show that the NDP are on track to form a coalition government with the Liberals, and although the Liberals are pot-washers, such an arrangement would be Canada's best chance at ending the weed-war from within the halls of power. The last time the NDP held the balance of power during a Liberal government was in the 60's, and they used their clout to bring in Canada's much-beloved universal health care system.

I have also found through searching that Ian Capstick, the Press Secretary for the NDP has was responsible for a letter to you that said...

"Dear Mr. McKenzie, Thank you for your email of May 26, 2004. With regard to your questions: (1) Mr. Layton did not and does not endorse the legalization of marijuana. The NDP endorses its decriminalization. (2) The NDP's official agent has not sanctioned any activities by Mr. Emory. (3) Mr. Layton in no way supports or endorses Mr. Emory's comments relating to the province of Saskatchewan or Ed Broadbent. (4) Mr. Emory is not authorized to speak for the NDP and will not be the sanctioned NDP spokesperson at a pro-marijuana rally on June 5th or on any other date. Cordially yours, Ian Capstick"

You may want to contact Jack, Aylwin, Alison, Libby and Peter before running to the printers with some press screeners biased personal view. Tell Jack to ignore his advisors and show true leadership. Tell Jack that Canada is ready to vote for "cafes instead of punishment" and make a serious change for world peace, herbal medicine, organic agriculture, a strong economy and a sustainable environment all at the same time. Tell him to be more vocal in his defense of cannabis, cannabis users and cannabis farmers, and in return we'll get the vote out on election day.

Christopher Goodwin
NDP Executive Youth Officer Hamilton Mountain
79 McElroy Road East
Hamilton, Ontario,
L9A 1Y7
(905) 318-1680

Here ... watch these shows.

NDP vs Liberal
http://www.pot-tv.net/archive/shows/pot ... -2715.html
One Minute NDP Clip
http://www.pot-tv.net/archive/shows/pot ... -2710.html
Jack Layton on legalization.
http://www.pot-tv.net/archive/shows/pot ... -2615.html
Jack Layton on CBC's Newsworld
http://www.pot-tv.net/archive/shows/pot ... -2623.html
Jack Layton on C-Pac
http://www.pot-tv.net/archive/shows/pot ... -2330.html
Jack Layton Pot TV Interview on Global!
http://www.pot-tv.net/archive/shows/pot ... -2299.html
Jack Layton on Pot-Tv.net
http://www.pot-tv.net/archive/shows/pot ... -2271.html

Aylwin Lo, the Communications Officer for the New Democratic Party of Canada
[email protected]