Audit of Manitoba First Nation raises concerns
BRAH @ Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:58 pm
Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:
BRAH BRAH:
It's time to cut off Native Bands in Canada once and for all.
It'll never happen as long as there is one left wing apologist for the past alive in Canada.
It'd be better to tell them that their subsidies are incumbent on them allowing regular independent audit's of the Bands, Chiefs an Councils.
Oh yeah and tax free status is over. They can pay it like the other people on welfare, EI, disability and Government pensions do.
Perhaps one day Natives in Canada will awaken to the fact Liberals would rather have them in poverty to guarantee their ongoing support.
BeaverFever @ Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:03 pm
BRAH BRAH:
to the crown should returned to the original owner, correct?
That's an unrealistic option and it's those kind of attitudes that have done more damage to the Native community than anything else because they've become addicted to relying on the Government to bail them out.[/quote]
I agree that the current arrangment is not in the best interest of either party and a new arrangement has to be found. But if you or I or anybody else went around entering into contracts and then refused to live up to our end after getting what we wanted, we'd have the pants sued off of us so fast our heads would spin. You have to find a new arrangment that works, you cant just say "its not convenient for me to fulfill my end of the bargain, now that I got what I wanted."
$1:
What is that fee? What is the exact amount due to them? And exactly what land did we get for it?
You should read the James Bay Treaty 9 (which includes Attawapiskat among several other Nations) here. It's quite wordy, but here are the excerpts:
$1:
"
And, whereas, the said Indians have been notified and informed by His Majesty's said commission that it is His desire to open for settlement, immigration, trade, travel, mining, lumbering, and such other purposes as to His Majesty may seem meet, a tract of country, bounded and described as hereinafter mentioned, and to obtain the consent thereto of His Indian subjects inhabiting the said tract, and to make a treaty and arrange with them, so that there may be peace and good-will between them and His Majesty's other subjects, and that His Indian people may know and be assured of what allowances they are to count upon and receive from His Majesty's bounty and benevolence.
And whereas, the said commissioners have proceeded to negotiate a treaty with the Ojibeway, Cree and other Indians, inhabiting the district hereinafter defined and described, and the same has been agreed upon, and concluded by the respective bands at the dates mentioned hereunder, the said Indians do hereby cede, release, surrender and yield up to the government of the Dominion of Canada, for His Majesty the King and His successors for ever, all their rights titles and privileges whatsoever, to the lands included within the following limits, that is to say: That portion or tract of land lying and being in the province of Ontario, bounded on the south by the height of land and the northern boundaries of the territory ceded by the Robinson-Superior Treaty of 1850, and the Robinson-Huron Treaty of 1850, and bounded on the east and north by the boundaries of the said province of Ontario as defined by law, and on the west by a part of the eastern boundary of the territory ceded by the Northwest Angle Treaty No. 3; the said land containing an area of ninety thousand square miles, more or less.
And also, the said Indian rights, titles and privileges whatsoever to all other lands wherever situated in Ontario, Quebec, Manitoba, the District of Keewatin, or in any other portion of the Dominion of Canada.
To have and to hold the same to His Majesty the King and His successors for ever
---
And His Majesty the King hereby agrees and undertakes to lay aside reserves for each band, the same not to exceed in all one square mile for each family of five, or in that proportion for larger and smaller families; and the location of the said reserves having been arranged between His Majesty's commissioners and the chiefs and headmen, as described in the schedule of reserves hereto attached, the boundaries thereof to be hereafter surveyed and defined, the said reserves when confirmed shall be held and administered by His Majesty for the benefit of the Indians free of all claims, liens, or trusts by Ontario.
Provided, however, that His Majesty reserves the right to deal with any settlers within the bounds of any lands reserved for any band as He may see fit; and also that the aforesaid reserves of land, or any interest therein, may be sold or otherwise disposed of by His Majesty's government for the use and benefit of the said Indians entitled thereto, with their consent first had and obtained; but in no wise shall the said Indians, or any of them, be entitled to sell or otherwise alienate any of the lands allotted to them as reserves.
--
Further, His Majesty agrees to pay such salaries of teachers to instruct the children of said Indians, and also to provide such school buildings and educational equipment as may seem advisable to His Majesty's government of Canada.
--------------
Schedule "C"
Reserves Approved and Confirmed
....
FOR ATTAWAPISKAT BAND
Attawapiskat. Situated at the junction of the Little Eqwan river with the main Eqwan river, to start on the main Eqwan river at a point 4½ miles west of the said junction and to comprise a width of 6 miles, or 3 miles on each side of the river, and a depth down the river of approximately 17.4 miles, containing 104.4 square miles more or less. It being clearly understood that the Government of the Dominion is to be responsible for the survey of these reserves and that plans and field notes of the said reserves shall be deposited in the office of the Minister of Lands and Forests when such surveys have been made.
.....
And, whereas, the said Indians have been notified and informed by His Majesty's said commission that it is His desire to open for settlement, immigration, trade, travel, mining, lumbering, and such other purposes as to His Majesty may seem meet, a tract of country, bounded and described as hereinafter mentioned, and to obtain the consent thereto of His Indian subjects inhabiting the said tract, and to make a treaty and arrange with them, so that there may be peace and good-will between them and His Majesty's other subjects, and that His Indian people may know and be assured of what allowances they are to count upon and receive from His Majesty's bounty and benevolence.
And whereas, the said commissioners have proceeded to negotiate a treaty with the Ojibeway, Cree and other Indians, inhabiting the district hereinafter defined and described, and the same has been agreed upon, and concluded by the respective bands at the dates mentioned hereunder, the said Indians do hereby cede, release, surrender and yield up to the government of the Dominion of Canada, for His Majesty the King and His successors for ever, all their rights titles and privileges whatsoever, to the lands included within the following limits, that is to say: That portion or tract of land lying and being in the province of Ontario, bounded on the south by the height of land and the northern boundaries of the territory ceded by the Robinson-Superior Treaty of 1850, and the Robinson-Huron Treaty of 1850, and bounded on the east and north by the boundaries of the said province of Ontario as defined by law, and on the west by a part of the eastern boundary of the territory ceded by the Northwest Angle Treaty No. 3; the said land containing an area of ninety thousand square miles, more or less.
And also, the said Indian rights, titles and privileges whatsoever to all other lands wherever situated in Ontario, Quebec, Manitoba, the District of Keewatin, or in any other portion of the Dominion of Canada.
To have and to hold the same to His Majesty the King and His successors for ever
---
And His Majesty the King hereby agrees and undertakes to lay aside reserves for each band, the same not to exceed in all one square mile for each family of five, or in that proportion for larger and smaller families; and the location of the said reserves having been arranged between His Majesty's commissioners and the chiefs and headmen, as described in the schedule of reserves hereto attached, the boundaries thereof to be hereafter surveyed and defined, the said reserves when confirmed shall be held and administered by His Majesty for the benefit of the Indians free of all claims, liens, or trusts by Ontario.
Provided, however, that His Majesty reserves the right to deal with any settlers within the bounds of any lands reserved for any band as He may see fit; and also that the aforesaid reserves of land, or any interest therein, may be sold or otherwise disposed of by His Majesty's government for the use and benefit of the said Indians entitled thereto, with their consent first had and obtained; but in no wise shall the said Indians, or any of them, be entitled to sell or otherwise alienate any of the lands allotted to them as reserves.
--
Further, His Majesty agrees to pay such salaries of teachers to instruct the children of said Indians, and also to provide such school buildings and educational equipment as may seem advisable to His Majesty's government of Canada.
--------------
Schedule "C"
Reserves Approved and Confirmed
....
FOR ATTAWAPISKAT BAND
Attawapiskat. Situated at the junction of the Little Eqwan river with the main Eqwan river, to start on the main Eqwan river at a point 4½ miles west of the said junction and to comprise a width of 6 miles, or 3 miles on each side of the river, and a depth down the river of approximately 17.4 miles, containing 104.4 square miles more or less. It being clearly understood that the Government of the Dominion is to be responsible for the survey of these reserves and that plans and field notes of the said reserves shall be deposited in the office of the Minister of Lands and Forests when such surveys have been made.
.....
$1:
"Since the start of construction, community-owned or jointly owned businesses have been awarded over $325-million, including $51-million this year alone,” he said in an e-mail last week. “The community owns or jointly owns all the permanent contracts in the Victor mine.”Where did... that money go? Why is none of that money flowing into the community coffers?
Understand that this does not mean De Beers gave this money to the community, or that the community got this much in profit. This means enterprises in which the community is involved (either exclusively or as a small limited partner) got the contracts and their profit is their percentage of that $51 million minus the cost of hiring and flying in workers, equipment, paying lawyers, accountants, regualatory filings, etc. And those contracts are for low-paying menial jobs like catering and house-keeping and only about 100 Atta residetns even work there.
BeaverFever @ Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:18 pm
BRAH BRAH:
Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:
BRAH BRAH:
It's time to cut off Native Bands in Canada once and for all.
It'll never happen as long as there is one left wing apologist for the past alive in Canada.
It'd be better to tell them that their subsidies are incumbent on them allowing regular independent audit's of the Bands, Chiefs an Councils.
Oh yeah and tax free status is over. They can pay it like the other people on welfare, EI, disability and Government pensions do.
Perhaps one day Natives in Canada will awaken to the fact Liberals would rather have them in poverty to guarantee their ongoing support.
Totall bullshit. Conservatives are the ones who would rather have them in poverty. Liberals aren't saying "increase the funding". They're saying throw the enire Indian Act into the fireplace, gather the Aboriginal Leaders and Provinces in a room and start over from scratch to build a system that works for EVERYONE. That's all.
PS - most welfare is not taxable. Neither is Workers Comp.
andyt @ Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:17 pm
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
$1:
"Since the start of construction, community-owned or jointly owned businesses have been awarded over $325-million, including $51-million this year alone,” he said in an e-mail last week. “The community owns or jointly owns all the permanent contracts in the Victor mine.”Where did... that money go? Why is none of that money flowing into the community coffers?
Understand that this does not mean De Beers gave this money to the community, or that the community got this much in profit. This means enterprises in which the community is involved (either exclusively or as a small limited partner) got the contracts and their profit is their percentage of that $51 million minus the cost of hiring and flying in workers, equipment, paying lawyers, accountants, regualatory filings, etc. And those contracts are for low-paying menial jobs like catering and house-keeping and only about 100 Atta residetns even work there.
The Atta residents that work at the mine are employees of the mine. Those are not contracts, those are further earnings flowing into the community. DeBeers has also put in tens of millions in direct aid to the community, plus pays them a 2% royalty. That's a lot of money flowing into that place - what do they have to show for it?
As I said, a writer compared Prince George and how they are able to benefit from the forests that surround them. But PG doesn't own those forests, nor do they get any royalties from them (those go to the BC govt). The money in PG comes from people working in those forests and bringing that money to PG and paying local taxes. Why can't the Atta people do that, and if there just isn't enough work around where they live, well them let them move to where there is work. What is with this idea that Indians should get a good life without working, while other Canadians who don't work a very poor life on welfare?
andyt @ Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:24 pm
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
BRAH BRAH:
Perhaps one day Natives in Canada will awaken to the fact Liberals would rather have them in poverty to guarantee their ongoing support.
Totall bullshit. Conservatives are the ones who would rather have them in poverty. Liberals aren't saying "increase the funding". They're saying throw the enire Indian Act into the fireplace, gather the Aboriginal Leaders and Provinces in a room and start over from scratch to build a system that works for EVERYONE. That's all.
PS - most welfare is not taxable. Neither is Workers Comp.
That's just Brah being a CPC robot. Trudeau tried to get rid of the Indian act, but met such a wall of opposition and cries of racism he had to abandon it. Now it's the Reformacons turn. Lets see if they do any better. But my guess is we'll wind up with us paying just enough guilt money to them to keep things reasonably quiet for a long time to come.
The only system that works for everyone is one where everybody's equal, or as equal as it gets in this country. No special race based status. We should pay to help natives to get there - education, moving costs, transition costs, etc, but there should be a clear end to it all in sight, where natives are just Canadians like everybody else. Otherwise, if it's a matter of who was here first, well some people can trace their families here for 3 centuries or so - shouldn't they get a better deal than somebody fresh off the boat?
BRAH @ Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:15 pm
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
Totall bullshit. Conservatives are the ones who would rather have them in poverty. Liberals aren't saying "increase the funding". They're saying throw the enire Indian Act into the fireplace, gather the Aboriginal Leaders and Provinces in a room and start over from scratch to build a system that works for EVERYONE. That's all.
PS - most welfare is not taxable. Neither is Workers Comp.
It's not total bullshit because a few years ago Liberals basically said if you voted for the Conservatives you are racist and they hammered that message to the Natives because keeping the Natives where they were served their political agenda..
We obviously disagree that's fine but I think we both can agree that something needs to change and throwing money is simply a band aid on a much larger problem.
BRAH @ Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:15 pm
andyt andyt:
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
BRAH BRAH:
Perhaps one day Natives in Canada will awaken to the fact Liberals would rather have them in poverty to guarantee their ongoing support.
Totall bullshit. Conservatives are the ones who would rather have them in poverty. Liberals aren't saying "increase the funding". They're saying throw the enire Indian Act into the fireplace, gather the Aboriginal Leaders and Provinces in a room and start over from scratch to build a system that works for EVERYONE. That's all.
PS - most welfare is not taxable. Neither is Workers Comp.
That's just Brah being a CPC robot. Trudeau tried to get rid of the Indian act, but met such a wall of opposition and cries of racism he had to abandon it. Now it's the Reformacons turn. Lets see if they do any better. But my guess is we'll wind up with us paying just enough guilt money to them to keep things reasonably quiet for a long time to come.
The only system that works for everyone is one where everybody's equal, or as equal as it gets in this country. No special race based status. We should pay to help natives to get there - education, moving costs, transition costs, etc, but there should be a clear end to it all in sight, where natives are just Canadians like everybody else. Otherwise, if it's a matter of who was here first, well some people can trace their families here for 3 centuries or so - shouldn't they get a better deal than somebody fresh off the boat?
Nice try sport, now excuse me I have to recharge my batteries.
Curtman @ Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:51 am
BRAH BRAH:
It's not total bullshit because a few years ago Liberals basically said if you voted for the Conservatives you are racist and they hammered that message to the Natives because keeping the Natives where they were served their political agenda..
We obviously disagree that's fine but I think we both can agree that something needs to change and throwing money is simply a band aid on a much larger problem.
We obviously disagree that's fine but I think we both can agree that something needs to change and throwing money is simply a band aid on a much larger problem.
I'd like to see a quote please. Conservatives may in fact all be racist, but it remains to be proven and I don't think the Liberal party ever made the claim that it already was.
Thanos @ Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:25 am
Liberals and Dippers have been calling conservatives racists to their faces ever since Preston Manning entered the federal political scene. That you say you won't believe it happened until someone produces an exact quote for you only shows how badly excessive pot smoking can destroy one's memory. You want the exact quotes that your lefty heroes have been smearing other Canadians with for over twenty years? Then put down the blunt for about five minutes, go onto the internet, and look the damn things up yourself. There's only about a million of the fucking quotes that have been floating around the mediasphere for the last two decades. This digusting reaction on the part of Canadian leftists, who automatically scream "racist!" at the top of their pathetic lungs the minute that they don't get their fucking way on everything, happened in spades back then and it still keeps happening today.
OnTheIce @ Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:10 am
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
Totall bullshit. Conservatives are the ones who would rather have them in poverty. Liberals aren't saying "increase the funding". They're saying throw the enire Indian Act into the fireplace, gather the Aboriginal Leaders and Provinces in a room and start over from scratch to build a system that works for EVERYONE. That's all.
PS - most welfare is not taxable. Neither is Workers Comp.
Considering how long the Liberals have been in power in this Country and the numerous promises that Liberals made to the Atta people and then did nothing...they have no basis to stand on their soap box on this one.
What did Bob Rae do to help the Native people in his Province when he was Premier?
Nothing.
BRAH @ Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:05 am
Curtman Curtman:
BRAH BRAH:
It's not total bullshit because a few years ago Liberals basically said if you voted for the Conservatives you are racist and they hammered that message to the Natives because keeping the Natives where they were served their political agenda..
We obviously disagree that's fine but I think we both can agree that something needs to change and throwing money is simply a band aid on a much larger problem.
We obviously disagree that's fine but I think we both can agree that something needs to change and throwing money is simply a band aid on a much larger problem.
I'd like to see a quote please. Conservatives may in fact all be racist, but it remains to be proven and I don't think the Liberal party ever made the claim that it already was.
Look for the quotes yourself, start with professional Liberal race baiter Hedy(Prince George Burns Crosses) Fry.
andyt @ Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:32 am
BRAH BRAH:
Look for the quotes yourself, start with professional Liberal race baiter Hedy(Prince George Burns Crosses) Fry.
Is PG a CPC fiefdom? She was talking about supposed racists in PG, don't remember her saying they were all Reform or Progressive Conservative operatives. (Wasn't this before the Reformacons?) And I don't believe her own party stood behind her on that ridiculous statement from which she had to climb down. Guess it appealed to her constituency tho, since they re-elected her.
BRAH @ Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:52 am
andyt andyt:
BRAH BRAH:
Look for the quotes yourself, start with professional Liberal race baiter Hedy(Prince George Burns Crosses) Fry.
Is PG a CPC fiefdom? She was talking about supposed racists in PG, don't remember her saying they were all Reform or Progressive Conservative operatives. (Wasn't this before the Reformacons?) And I don't believe her own party stood behind her on that ridiculous statement from which she had to climb down. Guess it appealed to her constituency tho, since they re-elected her.
Like I said the quotes are out there and as for Hedy fry it doesn't matter why she made those comments because the point is she made them and should have resigned her seat and the fact she was re-elected speaks volumes of those who voted for her.
There's Natives who have moved from the reserves and built themselves a great life without Government handouts and could be the model for those on the reserves who are stuck in a rut wanting a better life.
andyt @ Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:03 am
Hedy's comments were not about Reformacon racism tho, which is what we were talking about. And re-election is the great vindicator.
Curtman @ Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:37 pm
Thanos Thanos:
Liberals and Dippers have been calling conservatives racists to their faces ever since Preston Manning entered the federal political scene. That you say you won't believe it happened until someone produces an exact quote for you only shows how badly excessive pot smoking can destroy one's memory. You want the exact quotes that your lefty heroes have been smearing other Canadians with for over twenty years? Then put down the blunt for about five minutes, go onto the internet, and look the damn things up yourself. There's only about a million of the fucking quotes that have been floating around the mediasphere for the last two decades. This digusting reaction on the part of Canadian leftists, who automatically scream "racist!" at the top of their pathetic lungs the minute that they don't get their fucking way on everything, happened in spades back then and it still keeps happening today.
Well Preston Manning was a pretty easy guy to hate, and to assign that label.
The opposition to "any immigration based on race or creed or designed to radically or suddenly alter the ethnic makeup of Canada" made him an easy target. You guys can be afraid of immigrants, you just can't announce that you are.