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Right you are rickc and no other term is valid. We are all immigrants to this great country including the indigenous peoples.

   

   

Exactly, Thanos.

   

It is a term used to divide us, Dr Caleb and has done a fairly good job of just that. What I find amusing is that the wanna-be significant activists are the ones working hard to make sure that all other FNs are kept in line and on message when a good majority of them would rather see those types fall off the media's radar sooner rather than later as they are not in any way advancing reconciliation.

   

Just out of curiosity, has that happened to you guys? It hasn't to me, but I'd be interested to hear your stories.

And here's what Metis author Chelsea Vowel said about the use of the term in her book Indigenous Writes: A Guide To First Nations, Metis And Inuit Issues In Canada:



I don't entirely agree with some of the assertions Vowel makes in developing the term, namely that the descendants of black people who were enslaved shouldn't be called settlers (since how does somebody like me tell the difference between black folks whose ancestors and families came here voluntarily versus those whose ancestors came here as slaves?) but the issue is that European settlement, intentionally or not, wrecked so many Indigenous rights, languages and institutions, and they continue to be ignored and often damaged today.That's something that still needs to be acknowledged before we can ever hope to resolve the issue.

I have my share of questions, too. I can accept being called a settler because settlement enabled me to be here, but what does it mean for my heritage and the good and bad times I've had living on these lands? Do I have to throw all that out? Where else can I possibly go? I have British, Irish and German ancestry, but those countries are meaningless to me. And what about all the people who, regardless of skin colour, are deeply proud to see themselves as Canadian? And what, as a larger whole, unites us?

That's why I asked about the concept of 'settlers' on this forum-I'm still trying to figure out how we can make things right, and I wanted some other peoples' thoughts.

   

The descendants of settlers and pioneers aren't settlers or pioneers themselves. They're native to the land they're born in. The basics of all rational ideas and definitions of citizenship all across this planet confirm it. Calling us "settlers" after multiple generations is as insulting as if you or me or anyone else when up to random black people in the US who are descendants of those brought to American in the slavery era and seriously calling them "slaves". "Hi, slave, how you doin' today, homie?". Like, would anyone feel sorry for someone who got the shit kicked out of them for saying something that insulting and stupid to any black person today?

And enough of the phony hagiography of the Natives too. Those tribes used to do things to each other in times of war that were just as rotten, evil, and atrocious that anyone else on this planet, whether civilized or barbarian, have done to each other during the blood-soaked history of our species. When the Aztecs completed one of their larger pyramid/temple it's estimated that over the course of a few weeks they sacrificed over a hundred thousand slaves and captives taken in wars to consecrate it to their gods. And everywhere, from the far North to the tip of South America, the Natives had their own slaves and various types of underlings too. Every single society that's ever existed on this planet has had it's social omegas who are treated like trash, or as something to be disposed of altogether for whatever reason that can me dreamt up by those in both social and religious authority. The Sioux for example, would refer only to themselves as "human beings" - the surrounding enemy Pawnee, Kiowa, Nez Pierce, etc, were definitely not seen as equally human to the Sioux. The Sioux wouldn't wipe them out altogether the way the Nazis did with the Jews and Slavs, and the non-lethal "counting coup" form of personal combat between warriors was always in effect, but any outsider that fell into Sioux hands was in for a very unpleasant experience. The reason why they lost so badly to the Europeans was because the European technology was so much superior. And, more than any other factor, because they had no resistance to the diseases that the Europeans brought with them. As the book title went it was the guns, germs, and steel that made the conquest so overwhelming and historically massive. And that is something that's happened everywhere else too. The Aztecs, Mayans, and other advanced societies of Central and South America did it to those lesser groups around them. The Germans kicked the crap out of the Slavs for hundreds of years. The English put the Welsh, Scots, and Irish under the boot. It's not possible to even calculate how many sub-groups were either supressed, assimilated, or wiped out altogether (by both war and disease) when the Chinese, Indians, Muslims, and Russians expanded their spheres. It's not a white thing, it's human nature everywhere and it always has been.

So back to "settler". It's not personal. It's just a conversation-stopping insult. And it's a stupid insult too, one that's based in some ridiculous contemporary concept of permanent ownership of the Americans that's been cooked up by the descendants of those who previously dominated the continents. It's crap, and it's not something I'm going to ever respect or even acknowledge.

   

Great post!!! I would rep if I could!

   

I have never been called 'settler' by anyone. Don't wish to be either.



Like above, it's meant to divide us. What if you are Black, but were one of those who settled the first Black settlement (on Cree land, IIRC) in Amber Valley, Alberta? What if you are black, but just immigrated from Ethiopia? What if you are white and just immigrated from Europe?

Why do these differences matter to the First Nations. Call me 'white'. I will not be surprised, I already know it. But my skin colour is not who I am, and making assumptions about it is the definition of prejudice. Sure, people who came before me, from similar places to my ancestors did some terrible things to their ancestors. But it wasn't my ancestors and it wasn't me. Can we not just acknowledge the terrible past and make a pact with each other not to do it in the future?



I listen to the program "Unreserved" fairly often. One of the things many guests believe is part of reconciliation is not only acknowledgement for the sins of the past, but forgiveness for them. Holding such things over me by calling me 'settler', that I neither condone nor prosecuted, isn't a sign of forgiveness.

   

Oh FFS offended by being referred to as a settler? Get a life!
Preferable to the term used by some natives (trying to be assholes) in these parts that translates literally as "white shit"?
Working on a rez years ago some ginger haired native kid called me that, obviously didn't know I knew what it meant. I told him that before he ever called me that again he should ask his Gramma who the Irishman in her woodpile was. The older kids laughed their asses off and he ran home.

   

My ancestors came here in the hopes of having a better life than the one they left behind.

At the time when they arrived Canada needed people, so they sent them west to "settle" on the land (primarily in the prairie provinces) and create a life for themselves. Which they did. I'm proud of my background of hard-working farmers who did the best they could with what they had, and therefore here I am.

I am Canadian, a child of Canadian-born citizens who were the offspring (one and two generations back of "settlers").

   

I'm here because my ancestors didn't want their head sliced off.

   

I perfer the term "Canadian".

   

The thing is that, in preparation for mass settlement by non-Natives, the British and Canadian governments did a lot of really awful, shitty things to the Natives. And from the underfunding of reserve services and the pollution of food and water sources like at Grassy Narrows, down to individual sickos like Robert Pickton and the cops who do the "starlight tours", there's still a lot of shit Native people have to deal with in Canada. We didn't do it ourselves, and we're not directly responsible for it, but we do have an obligation in my view to know that history and try to do better.

I have the same questions DrCaleb does about recent immigrants, such as his example of someone who's just immigrated from Ethiopia, as I previously touched on. I've also wondered about what that implies for my identity all the positive kinships and history I've experienced growing up here. I'm trying to figure out how to get around the reaction DrCaleb and Thanos have talked about. That's one reason I've written so much about Canadian history and being proud to be Canadian-I want to take pride in our accomplishments and successes as a country while recognizing and addressing the shitty part.

What DrCaleb mentioned about acknowledging the bad parts of our history and pledging not to do it again, in many ways, is what most of the Native people I've conversed with or whose writings I've read actually want too. Vowel herself has said that even if we're acknowledged as 'settlers', that doesn't mean we're all going to be rounded up and shipped to Europe or somewhere else-we're all probably here to stay. But in my view, we do have a responsibility to acknowledge what's happened and to make the necessary changes to accommodate Native peoples' rights, as the Crown originally promised in the Treaties.

Here's what one First Nations lady had to say about the term 'settler' as something accusatory or negative:



So in that respect the term 'settler' is not meant, at least from her point of view (and from the POV of anyone else I've heard use the term) to demonize anyone or make them feel ashamed of their roots.

Besides which, Natives arguably aren't the only ones with Treaty rights-if we're settlers, we have rights to live here too enshrined in the Treaties, and by extension in the Constitution. In that sense, it could be as much a term of mutual recognition and our bonds-one that is also compatible with our all being Canadian, as many Native people themselves have shown-as an accusation or a slur.

I don't know entirely how to do it, but we need to get past the good/bad binary mentioned in the quote above. Unfortunately, it seems like we're stuck in an all-or-nothing thing where if you want to wave a Canadian flag, you secretly wear a white hood, but if you want to acknowledge Native rights and correct the problems you secretly hate yourself for having skin and hair that are too light.



I don't recall any credible Native thinkers that I've read doing such hagiography, just a few particularly stupid white leftists. The "mourning wars" that some First Nations practiced in particular don't sit well with me-being separated from one's family like that would, to me, be scarcely better than death.

But when you talk about what the English did to the other peoples of the British Isles, I would point out that the UK has taken a lot of steps to undo a lot of those historical injustices. Wales and Scotland now have their own regional parliaments, and the Good Friday Agreement also tried to resolve the problems in Ireland, with most of Ireland itself becoming an independent country again. And the Treaties, as I've said before multiple times, were means for the rest of us to be able to live here peaceably with the Natives-and they are part of the Constitution, as reinforced by Canadian case law.

So wouldn't recognizing both Native rights and our own rights as non-Natives, settlers, whatever term you prefer, be a way to do right by our own Constitution, and to live up to what we so often praise about Canada?

   

Do you feel obligated?

   

I wholly agree that some terrible things were done to First Nations, and I see that these things are still being done to them. And sometimes they do it to themselves too. How many stories did we get from Shep who lived on a Northern reserve and saw the self destruction for himself? Perhaps this is a result of the historical wrongs done to them, or the ongoing ones.

But we also need to agree that *I* didn't do this. Odds are, no one else here did. But calling us 'settlers' pigeon holes us all in to the same category as those people.



We all need to do this, not just the 'Colonizers' or 'settlers'. First Nations also had their own little conflicts too, just Europeans were better at it.



It may not be meant that way, but then again neither was "Red Skins" or "Chiefs" or "Eskimos" in sports team names. But some people find them offensive.

Why do we have to label anyone? I know what Canada did in it's past. That doesn't mean I have to be labelled as such any more than every German needs the 'Nazi' label. I knew a German WWII soldier at our local Legion, and nobody treated him as a 'Nazi' because they knew he only thought he was properly serving his country at the time, but he grew wiser over time. If we had called him 'Nazi' he would have hardened and left us and would not have become such a good Comrade. That is not the way to change hearts and minds.



Not to be an asshole, but Canada also has the historical right of Conquest as well. It's an ugly truth. We have this land because we killed and subjugated the people who lived here. And they also warred against the other people who lived here, and took their land by right of conquest. It was the way things were done. But we've evolved since then.

But again, it wasn't me who did that or condoned that and it wasn't likely anyone around today. But acknowledging our pasts is a step toward putting them behind us.



If there are First Nations people out there who don't want to participate in 'Canada', that's fine with me. It doesn't even have to be an all or nothing thing. You can hate us, and still use our roads, or grocery stores. You don't have to go back to a nomadic way of life, living off the land. But then again stop bitching about what advantages you have been offered. It's not perfect, but it's still pretty good compared to some.

For the rest of them, I hope they can forgive the injuries put upon their ancestors by early Canadians, and any put upon them by the current government, and move on. I will do what I can to acknowledge those injuries, and do what I can to prevent further injury, and treat them with the same respect I am shown.

   

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