An intelligent American???

Uh, bye-bye, Antirev.

A lot of it seems to go back to this one guy, Lacofir. My trouble started with him shortly after Bush got elected and got really bad after 9-11. Before that I actually considered him a friend. Now I just consider him unstable.

I sent an e-mail containing Anti-rev's posts out to a few people familiar with Wing. The results were mixed, but about half suspect Anti-rev and Wing are the same guy.

A lot of it is that I talk back too. I point out things that make people extremely uncomfortable...like the racism and homophobia and inherent in the policies of the Reform/Alliance/Conservative Party. They like to think that's a fabrication of some mythical eastern media, but I grew up in Saskatchewan and now live in Manitoba. I have a lot of rural friends and relatives...people who live in Alliance country and may or may not support them. They do see the reality of much of what the party stands for either way though. I don't pull a lot of punches when it comes to that...vampires turn to dust when you drag them out into the sunlight, after all.

So to kind of get this thread back on track, and since it is about intelligent Americans, does anybody else here read Hunter Thompson?

... yea, I understand what your saying, I just don't see how people can get so pissed just because their opinion may be proven wrong.... I mean, it is instinct that makes us debate and argue and think that "My Idea is right and everyone elses is wrong..." but you'd think we'd have been able to breed that instinct out by now. You know, actually make people respectful of others opinions....

Never have read any of his stuff,but I've heard great things about his writing.I dated a woman many years ago who worshiped him. My favorite author is Carl Sagan, and he WAS an intelligent American, and a decent human being and certainly a true citizen of the world.

Things have really been polarising since the 1980's though. A lot of Reagan's power, and the power of the far right in North America ever since, came from talk radio and letter writing campaigns. As the Internet became bigger, that became a major tool too. The left really only started to catch onto that in the late nineties...that you could garner support by getting your ideas out there and making people listen.

The far right has really reacted poorly to that. They'll quote Rush Limbaugh and Anne Coulter at every turn, but if you mention a magazine or writer that leans even slightly to left they attack it as an illegitimate source because it's biased.

Guess what? If you read, watch, or listen to the mainstream news at all, it's biased too. It leans to the right. Why is there always a business report on? There's a guy on my TV every damned day telling me what stocks and bonds I should buy. He wears a suit and tie and has the latest business-type haircut. When was the last time you saw a guy come on NewsWorld wearing a pair of jeans and a plaid shirt to tell you what the latest action to oppose the money-nazis is? How come nobody ever shows up in my newspaper to tell me when a protest is going to occur?

Basically the far right have taken to yelling and screaming in an attempt to drown out all other opinions. I really piss them off because I'm not shy...I yell and scream right back. A lot of others on the left have taken to doing the same. In Canada, at least in the era of Chretien, that yelling and screaming is really an attempt to influence the actions of the centre. I fear that dark days are ahead for us though...Paul Martin is basically Brian Mulroney in drag. I guess I'm going to have to yell and scream a little more.

Actually, I learned a lot of my yelling and screaming technique from Hunter S. Thompson. He's an intelligent American, especially on the days he stays more or less sober. Even on the days he loads himself up on Wild Turkey and speed, he's brighter than most.

He's old now, and the drugs and booze that fueled his career have taken their toll. He has a new, young(er) wife and a new stainless steel spine (whatever the hell that means) though, and the last time he was on Larry King he seemed to have shunned the speed, if not the Wild Turkey. It's time to move back to talking about intelligent Americans.

Help me clear this up.

Is the "far right" defined as those who oppose the host of radical leftist value trends that arose in the 1960s? Is a "smart" American one who supports this agenda, or just one who oppose the Bush administration or neo-cons in general? Personally my idea of a smart American {or Canadian for that matter} is one who lives by neither extreme.

As far as the media goes, I've seen more people accuse the large mainstream media outlets of being impartial and honest :roll:

than I have those who've said that most lean politically to the right. The National Post in this country and FoxNews in the U.S. are the only two major outlets I'd characterize as being right leaning.

If right wing media was so pervasive as you suggest it wouldn't need to retreat to talk radio, newletters or the internet as has been the case.

I turned 6 in 1970, Rosco. The social and political upheaval that happened in the 1960's is something I kind of remember, but really I look at it as history. Nothing happened in the 1960's that hadn't happened before...even the free love movement had an historical precedent in 1800's France.

To put it another way....there really isn't that much difference between Paris in the 20's and San Francisco in the 60's. What you were really looking at was a bunch of people who fed up with being ruled by a bunch of people who equated money and order with good and right. We're headed for another one of those periods. Personally, I'd like to see a Canadian city be the one the freaks choose to be ex-patriats in. Actually, I'd like it to be Winnipeg, but it's just too damned cold here for that kind of lifestyle. My guess is that if it's in Canada they'll be closer to non-rev than to me.

As for the media...look at what's considered news. Some company signs a contract and it's all over the place. Some scientist makes a major break-through and it gets minor mention on the cable channels. Some artist (pick your favourite medium) creates something wonderful and you are lucky to stumble across it on the back page of the local paper. I can't speak for the rest of you, but I've been affected by science and art more than money in my life...I can always make money, but science art change the way I make money and my attitude towards it.

You misunderstood my point about the far right and media, Rosco. My point was that they figured out how to use it and left the rest of us in the dust. We used to know. Think about the 1968 Democratic Convention....Listening to 1000s chant "The whole world is watching," while cops beat people with sticks on TV had a huge effect, it helped to turn the tide. By the time Watergate was over, the left had lost all interest in using the media to get its point across...they mostly receded into talking to each other. We're waking up out of that now, I intend to be there.

Just to get back to intelligent Americans, does anybody remember intelligent Americans....this thread is about intelligent Americans...and to show you how history repeats....Is there really a significant difference between Woody Guthrie, Bob Dylan, and Steve Earle?

The generation that protested in Chicago and elsewhere is now in charge, it's politics now drive the establishment rather than oppose it, it's views and deeds have gone mainstream.

Who are these far righters again? Personally I think of people in the ideological neighbourhood of Ernst Zundel, Matt Hale and William Pierce as being "far" right {among other things}, you seem quick to attach that label to anyone right of Lenin!

Anyways a smart American? If such a thing truely exists in nature :wink:

its surely not to be found in the likes of Michael Moore, a lying hypocritical scumbag if there every was one.

No Rosco, the generation that protested largely got on with their lives, and raised kids. nonrev can give you a better idea of that...he's that age. He also insists that his generation didn't sell out when the chips were down...let him explain it. My generation never even bothered selling out, we just kind of...are. I've been trying to explain that for a long time and nobody seems to get it except Copeland and a guy named after Bullwinkle's squirrel, so I'll let somebody else toss that ball...then I'll chase it like a good dog.

You are wrong about sixties values being represented in today's politics though. I blame that generation for not bringing their politics into the real (adult) world with them. You blame them for bringing it. In terms of that Democratic convention I mentioned earlier I'm the old guy cheering on those getting whacked with a baton and you are one of those young Republicans Nixon used to drag out for pieces on the six o'clock news.

I've seen nothing since the age of Carter and Trudeau that represents those values in any real sense.

I was thinking of a major centre closer to you than me, nonrev, not one of the places literally close to you.

I still hope it happens here though...we are "the Paris of the Prairies", after all.

Actually I base the term far right to those that feel it is okay, even natural, for money to take precedence over the well-being of people. I also attach that label to those who feel they should be able to impose their religious beliefs on others.

I'm not sure I remember you actually making a cogent argument for anything, Third Eye. I think that's what Laconfir means by your arguments failing. It's like the guy in that old Monty Python skit says, "Contradiction is not an argument."

Since this thread is about intelligent Americans though, and because his name came up, let's talk about Michael Moore. He's a best-selling author. He points out problems and suggests solutions. He has a research staff that helps him. He's a proud American.

The right, especially in US, hates him. They didn't hate him when he had only a cult following...they didn't care enough to hate him. When Stupid White Men shot to the top of best-seller lists all over the US, Canada, and England, the right decided they hated him. That hatred grew when Bowling for Columbine started winning awards and selling out theatres. It isn't because of what Moore says, he's been saying these things since Roger and Me. They hate him because people are listening...people are realising that they've been lied to, that their governments' policies are hurting them.

I personally like Michael Moore. Enjoyed most episodes of The Awful Truth.

And I might be able to believe that web page provided if it wasn't for the fact that Noam Chomsky, and a few other intellectuals (who are extremely intelligent and American) mentioned the same FACTS as Mr. Michael Moore. I'd be willing to entertain the fact that Michael Moore couldn't possibly be a working class individual except for the fact that he IS working, that what he has to say is worth paying for. And for the fact that certain people with power would like for him to turn up dead, so protection is paramount. And it don't come cheap.

Can actual facts be found that support what's been said against Michael Moore rather then simple opinion?