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Oh Boy!



You mean USA?



Territorial ambitions : Who an independent Quebec is gonna invade? Ontario? New Brunswick?

Economic ambitions : Like every capitalist country!

   

Ah, the separatist pipe dream. How's your race against the clock going, Spock?

   

Good post. I agree with you.

   

Well, there would be an interesting problem with shipping out of Ontario.





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I'm just pointing out by some kind of irony that this "hypothesis" from Bart Simpson is just bullshit and some kind of Quebec bashing. I would have been a convinced federalist Quebecer and I would also have found this post stupid.

   

Actually, it was the main reason for the German Arms buildup of the time. Kaiser Wilhelm, was envious of his cousins' empires and wanted one for himself. He decided to pattern it on the British colonial system. In order for this to be a success, he felt, that he needed to create a navy that would rival that of Britain and so prevent their fleet from hindering the establishment of German colonies in Africa and Asia. Britain responded by increasing their own military spending. End result - lots of dead Europeans. Again.

   

I won't dispute what you say, but I'll stick with instability (political & economic), due to industrialization...





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Why? I don't think it is in the interest of an independent Quebec to isolate itself from the rest of North America by rejecting free trade.

BTW this thread is about military spending and its usefulness. Quebec sovereignty threat is not a justification for increasing military spending in Canada. Who really think it is?

   

Technically speaking, if it's just trans-shipment, it wouldn't be trade. It's just having legally foreign vessels passing back and forth through sovereign waters.



I agree this is off topic. This is some side issue in a BartSimpson omnibus post.

Nor am I saying anything about "justifications for increasing military spending".




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I didn't say that Britain's empire was a cause of WW1, but rather their aggressive foreign policy, one of which was their construction of a large navy. Germany's response was to start an arms race with Britain. This was one cause of WW1. But there were plenty of other reasons, like France's desire for revenge, the complicated system of alliances, and Germany's desire for its own empire were several other major reasons.

   

Response to bootlegga:

You came close to understanding my point but not quite.

I am challenging your assumption that Canada’s current military posture is sufficient by itself to keep your country safe, without giving any recognition to the military support you receive from the USA.

Of course, your premise is that Canada doesn’t need and doesn’t want US military support because you say “no nation on Earth [is] capable of invading/occupying us”. And why is it no nation can threaten you? You say it is due to the protection offered by “Admirals Atlantic and Pacific” plus the incapable militaries of those same nations.

Humor me.

If your line of reasoning about the safety of Canada is correct than it should also be true for the USA because of our similar geographic position.

See? If Canada doesn’t need the protection of the US military, because your own military is good enough to protect you from any possible threat in the world, then the USA (a smaller country) should also be safe if we adopt the same military structure you have. Isn’t that logical?

To do that we need to begin by shutting down American military bases throughout the world in places such as Western and Eastern Europe, Japan, South Korea, Kuwait, and the United Arab Emirates and bringing our troops home. Then the downsizing can begin until we have a military the same size as Canada’s.

Of course, without US forces positioned overseas and with a dramatically smaller US military at home, the balance of power would shift all over the world.

Border incursions and arms races that previously were kept in check by US military presence would flourish worldwide. These wouldn’t be our concern anymore. Little ol’ Kuwait would have to figure out how to protect its own ass and the same goes for the Israelis, Taiwanese, and all those former Soviet republics struggling to democratize with both Islamists and Putin trying to strangle them.

We can only hope that the new balance of power that emerges among the Chinese communists, Russian kleptocracy, Arab dictators, Asians, etc…is as safe for us in North America as what we have now.

So, getting back to bootlegga’s original proposition that Canada does not need US military support, I say fine, imagine a scenario (like that above) in which the USA’s military “comes home” and then downsizes to a point where it is the same size as the Canadian military. How safe would you feel in this new world order?

My premise is that without the US military performing its current role across the globe you wouldn’t feel as safe as you do now. As imperfect as the world is now, I believe Canada’s security would be much worse if the US reduced its strength to the size of the Canadian military.

   

Hmmm. Sorry. Come to think of it, I might have mixed you up with someone else.

   

Now I want to respond to other points in bootlegga's post.

Well, that’s not what I said, but I guess I get your drift; i.e., the US routinely sends in its military forces to invade harmless, defenseless countries without reason. What a jerk you are.



If the Inuits invaded Greenland and killed tens of thousands of Greenlanders, then fired missiles into Iceland to see if they could widen their atrocities, then unleashed chemical weapons on their fellow Inuits, then began a war with (who’s left up there?), Sweden. Then yea, as your allies, the US would probably help you kick their ass. It would be good for the world to get rid of a destabilizing force like those f*cking Inuit. Goddamn Inuit troublemakers!



I was challenging your assertion that US military force does not protect Canada. I believe it does.



I was trying to say that US military presence around the world in places such as the Korean Peninsula and Japan provides a stabilizing force that makes Canada safer. Without the US military presence in those places some other nation such as China or Russia would fill the role and then Canada would not be as safe.



Yep. Funny how so many of those gunning for us are Canadians.



The US is a benign force in the world. Millions of people are free because of the USA. We aren’t perfect and some like to focus on the imperfections and forget the good we have done in the past and continue to do right up until the present day.

Maybe someday the world won’t need us anymore and we can come home. But I have to tell you, it is sad how quickly some forget what we have done for them when the stakes were really high. Now we watch those same people jump on the “hate America” bandwagon.



Exactly.



If China becomes a democracy with freedom of speech, gets out of Tibet, admits their own crimes in the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, and lets Taiwan live free then I might go along with that.

   

I've lived in Taiwan for years and the only reason that has continued to exist as a seperate political entity is the intervention of the American military. As a result, it has become only one of two eastern Asian democracies. Without the influence of the American military, Taiwan would have been annexed by the PRC, rather than becoming an example to the Chinese as to how democracy can thrive within a Chinese society.

I currently reside on Kinmen (also known as Quemoy in the West) which is 2 100 m from the Chinese mainland (1 800 m at low tide). It has been the U.S's pledge to defend Taiwan that has allowed the island of Kinmen to develop into a national park rather than remain an island fortress. The military presence here has dwindled from 100 000, a few short years ago, to a mere 10 000. Beaches once riddled with landmines are being cleared to create public beaches (the only recent casualties of these being two fine men, who are sorely missed, who died two months ago in a storage accident) and tourist resorts, funds formerly allocated to the military are instead being invested into businesses, schools and parks.

There are 23 000 000 people over here in Taiwan that are glad the U.S "interferes" in other county's affairs. Don't be fooled, the Chinese have serious territorial ambitions in Asia. The Japanese tried to impose a co prosperity sphere on Asia, in the 30's and 40's. The Chinese are attempting to re establish the Middle Kingdom in the 21st century. It is only the American military that keeps this Chinese dream from becoming Asia's nightmare.

   

One you haven't considered:

Cannons disappear from fort

NB insurgents stockpiling weapons for the upcoming revolt... I just hope their heading towards Ottawa, and not planning on capturing the rest of the Maritimes .

   

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