Canada Kicks Ass
It's time to distance ourselves from the US

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Rationalist @ Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:46 pm

You're focusing too much on China. Although they would be a useful trading partner you're making the assumption that they would somehow replace the US as our main trading partner. There is only a certain niche that China can fill (at the moment), which is to say the market for cheap plastic widgets and toys that may or may not contain lead. What is important for Canada is to have access to the Chinese consumer market, so we can sell our stuff to them. When the Chinese central bank stops deliberately undervaluing the yuan, there will be a huge decrease in exports and the Chinese consumer will be hungry for all sorts of products. If anyone thinks trade sanctions are the best way to get China to change their domestic policy is living in a fantasy world. There are lots of other routes we can take to achieve that end, including using our free media, strong civil society and NGOs.

The US on the other hand is debasing their currency, and thus will be unable to buy as much from us in the near term if they continue on their current route.

We should be looking towards the EU, Japan, Korea, Singapore, Australia/New Zealand as future strategic allies.

I don't advocate cutting off all ties with the US and shunning them, all I am advocating is moving away from being such a close ally of a country that has lost a lot of its credibility on the international stage. Of course the next election may change all that, but it certainly won't change the economic situation, which could take years for the US to retool so they become an actual producer nation instead of the world's leading consumer of Asian goods. In the meanwhile, we will have to find somewhere else to purchase our products from at a fair rate, and we definitely have to stop debasing our own currency to maintain a lower dollar than the US to 'encourage exports'. There is no way we will win in a race to the bottom when it comes to devaluing our money.

Lastly, realize that I don't hate America, conversely, I have the utmost respect for the founding fathers of the US and their ideals. Unfortunately I have to call a spade a spade and I definitely see economic problems in store for the US in the near future - and historically economic unrest leads to social unrest. It is this reason why I'm advocating a shift from our US-centric trade and foreign policy.

   



Benoit @ Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:00 pm

Where is the morality for neighbors to distance themselves from one another as soon as one fall in a rough pass?

   



Streaker @ Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:05 pm

The one that's fallen into "a rough pass" has a habit of bullying and stealing from others.

Plenty of morality in distancing ourselves from that.

   



ArghMonkey @ Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:09 pm

We should be removing american control in our country for one ...

We should also remove our reliance on their economy, they are tanking and as an empire they are imploding, let them burn! we dont deserve the fate thats awaiting them.

We should be putting our ethics and morality above those of yanks anyway, between radical religious ideas, crushing civil rights, and ultimate greed of the elite they stand well positioned to destroy democracy, the u.s. is posed to end its empire as one of the most hated countries on the planet, rightly so!

They should be opposed with all we can muster, they need us desperately, let them choke I say, send them a message to smarten up ...

   



Benoit @ Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:12 pm

Streaker Streaker:
The one that's fallen into "a rough pass" has a habit of bullying and stealing from others.

Plenty of morality in distancing ourselves from that.


There is no morality in distancing ourselves of our accomplice, when and because the stolen goods to be shared are diminishing in value.

   



Regina @ Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:26 pm

ArghMonkey ArghMonkey:
We should be removing american control in our country for one ...

We should also remove our reliance on their economy, they are tanking and as an empire they are imploding, let them burn! we dont deserve the fate thats awaiting them.

We should be putting our ethics and morality above those of yanks anyway, between radical religious ideas, crushing civil rights, and ultimate greed of the elite they stand well positioned to destroy democracy, the u.s. is posed to end its empire as one of the most hated countries on the planet, rightly so!

They should be opposed with all we can muster, they need us desperately, let them choke I say, send them a message to smarten up ...


I like how every statement starts with "We should".......and that's the high water mark. Nothing of substance follows it!

   



Regina @ Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:36 pm

Rationalist Rationalist:
You're focusing too much on China. Although they would be a useful trading partner you're making the assumption that they would somehow replace the US as our main trading partner. There is only a certain niche that China can fill (at the moment), which is to say the market for cheap plastic widgets and toys that may or may not contain lead. What is important for Canada is to have access to the Chinese consumer market, so we can sell our stuff to them. When the Chinese central bank stops deliberately undervaluing the yuan, there will be a huge decrease in exports and the Chinese consumer will be hungry for all sorts of products. If anyone thinks trade sanctions are the best way to get China to change their domestic policy is living in a fantasy world. There are lots of other routes we can take to achieve that end, including using our free media, strong civil society and NGOs.

The US on the other hand is debasing their currency, and thus will be unable to buy as much from us in the near term if they continue on their current route.

We should be looking towards the EU, Japan, Korea, Singapore, Australia/New Zealand as future strategic allies.

I don't advocate cutting off all ties with the US and shunning them, all I am advocating is moving away from being such a close ally of a country that has lost a lot of its credibility on the international stage. Of course the next election may change all that, but it certainly won't change the economic situation, which could take years for the US to retool so they become an actual producer nation instead of the world's leading consumer of Asian goods. In the meanwhile, we will have to find somewhere else to purchase our products from at a fair rate, and we definitely have to stop debasing our own currency to maintain a lower dollar than the US to 'encourage exports'. There is no way we will win in a race to the bottom when it comes to devaluing our money.

Lastly, realize that I don't hate America, conversely, I have the utmost respect for the founding fathers of the US and their ideals. Unfortunately I have to call a spade a spade and I definitely see economic problems in store for the US in the near future - and historically economic unrest leads to social unrest. It is this reason why I'm advocating a shift from our US-centric trade and foreign policy.


I have friends that have been on "trade missions" and "trade exchanges" to China, India, Cuba and a few others I can't recall at the moment. They make some good contacts but in the end we have nothing for them and don't sell them anything. In fact the only thing they've got out of them were cheaper sources for parts..........not good exporting is it?

   



Public_Domain @ Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:49 pm

:|

   



Benoit @ Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:52 pm

Canada replacing United States by China would be like a man divorcing to marry his wife’s best girlfriend.

   



sandorski @ Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:16 pm

I have a dream. In that dream we build some huge ass rocket engines deep within the Earth. When completed, we fire them up ripping the whole country out of its' current position and plop it somewhere in the Mid Pacific, somewhere nice and close to the Equator. Hopefully we don't squish too many Islands, that would be unfortunate. We'd have to relocate the Polar Bears, and a few other species first though. The major Islands such as Newfoundland, Vancouver Island, Haida Gwai(sp), and others would require separate Engines, but that would be ok, because we could plop them elsewhere, such as the Indian Ocean for one, Carribean(sp) for another, Atlantic, etc.

Why? Why not!

   



Benoit @ Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:35 pm

sandorski sandorski:
I have a dream. In that dream we build some huge ass rocket engines deep within the Earth. When completed, we fire them up ripping the whole country out of its' current position and plop it somewhere in the Mid Pacific, somewhere nice and close to the Equator. Hopefully we don't squish too many Islands, that would be unfortunate. We'd have to relocate the Polar Bears, and a few other species first though. The major Islands such as Newfoundland, Vancouver Island, Haida Gwai(sp), and others would require separate Engines, but that would be ok, because we could plop them elsewhere, such as the Indian Ocean for one, Carribean(sp) for another, Atlantic, etc.

Why? Why not!


Because I have a better dream : Putting Canada beside the most populous and miserable country in the world (Bangladesh perhaps) and succeeding to let undefended and open our 8.893 km border.

   



ManifestDestiny @ Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:50 pm

I love how some people here think that cheap Europeans are going to buy Canadian goods. They dont want your goods. they consider them inferior to their masterfully enginered products. :roll:

They consider North Americans their stupid second cousins.

   



Bacardi4206 @ Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:51 pm

Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:
Regina Regina:
Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:
Regina Regina:
Is there another country we're geographically tied to with 4,000+ miles of border and has a customer base that it 10 times ours we can trade with? All sounds great till you look around at who else you can deal with.
There's always China...

I personally don't think we should trade with one nation like we are with the States though.

It's like Wal-Mart and Flagler. Flagler, with 95% dependency on Wal-Mart, is barely surviving right now after getting dropped.

I think Canada should trade mostly with The EU, China, and Japan.

This single nation trade idea is risky.
Have you looked at a map and seen where China is?? Do you understand that they don't want buy our shit or anybody else's? You'd also endorse trade with a country that violates human rights as well?
We already are... :lol:


I agree that we should not be so dependent on one nation, as you currently see the results. U.S. Economy is suffering and its taking Canadas for a little joy ride as well. I think we should still continue to do a majority of our trade with the U.S. but do a lot of trade with the EU. China however is always looking for trade, as they got like no resources and are constantly buying oil.

However that would imply that we got no morals because we would be trading with a Country terrible human rights violation and a country with no respect.

We are already trading with them however, so I see no harm in upgrading that trade. Although if I had a saying in it, I would just drop China as a trading partner. U.S. and EU is enough to satisfy our trading needs.

   



sandorski @ Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:06 pm

ManifestDestiny ManifestDestiny:
I love how some people here think that cheap Europeans are going to buy Canadian goods. They dont want your goods. they consider them inferior to their masterfully enginered products. :roll:



Umm no. They'd take our Goods if they were competitive, but a number of factors make them not. That said, for some things, yes, their products have superior qualities to them, although a lot of what constitutes "superiority" is a matter of perception and values. Europeans value certain Styles over North Americans for example. The strengths of European values can even be seen how we consider their Cars as desirable, as another example.

   



Benoit @ Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:25 pm

A lot of countries are too poor to participate to international trade. If Canada would contribute to their takeoffs, new markets for Canadian goods will be created.

   



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