Previous  1 ... 4  5  6  7  8  9  10  Next

Geez Kevlarman, you seem to be confusing myself and Mustang1. At least you (sorta) admit your mistake later but then poorly justify it.

As for

I gotta ask. Where exactly have I posted acidicly at you or have you forgotten our little PM exchange that went rather friendly. I don't recall any conflict between us so please refresh my memory.

   

Afghanistan wasn't genocide and when we went into Bosnia to prevent it, many seem to think we went in on the wrong side.

How about Iraq?

As for Africa and genocide we don't have one nation invading another. We have 2 sides of pretty much equal guilt killing each other in centuries old hatred. Tutsis and Hutus are the architects and if they won't find a way to live in peace then there isn't alot we can do about it.

Yopu should stop quoting WW2 because it was vastly different fighting an enemy invading other countries then one oppressing its people.

If Germany had not invaded western countries but instead attacked only Russia then would we have fought? How about if they didn't invade anybody but still treated the Jews as they did. Would we have gone to war?

How about WW1? The Boer war?

   

I already know your stance on that, no point in arguing it, so that's not what I'm talking about.
So you would let the genocide continue? How about somalia when the war lords were stealing food and 300000 people died as a result. Bad thing to get involved? Aren't you the liberal here?


If we knew the atrocities, I think we would have gone to war. Russia? No way to tell.
Both bad ideas. But you're trying to deflect. Are you saying that if there is genocide in a country we shouldn't stop it?

   

Afghanistan wasn't about genocide. Africa is about ancient hatreds and even if we went in we wouldn't be "regime changing", we would be there providing a bufferzone between 2 armies. We wouldn't be eliminating either army or either faction just as we didn't in Serbia/Bosnia. Thats peacekeeping and its different then Iraq/Afghanistan.

Most often it is a bad thing to get involved despite good intentions. I learnt that he hard way.

Look what happened in Somalia. Never should have gone.



No we wouldn't have. Thats the tragic rtruth about anti-semetism that was rampant in that era. Canada and the US knew full well what would happen to a boat load of Jews should they be sent back and yet they were. We didn't accept Jewish refugess yet you think we would have launched a massive invasion over Germanies treatment of them?

No way.

Now if Germany just confined her war to communist Russia then we might have gone to war, on the side of Germany. Hell, Patton wanted to reform German units and continue the attack into Russia just as Macarthur wanted to fight China. The almost instant shift from WW2 allies to cold-war enemies supports that.



Nope. I'm trying to illustrate the point that far to many Canadians are clucking at the actions of others without any realization that we were just as bad.

Now if you want to keep using genocide as a point you have to defend Afghanistan as something else becasue the oppression of the Taliban was nowhere near the level of genocide faced by others around the world. Oppression isn't genocide and shouldn't be equated.

Now how about answering my questions concerning Russia and/or China invading, sorry liberating all those oil producing countries engulfed in turmoil.

Whould that be fair? How about the world superpowers simply divide the planet up between them in order to 'bring order to the world".

Remember, Emperor Palpatine aka darth Sidious, wanted to bring peace to the galaxy for "a safe a secure future[I]. Was he right in doing so?

   

True enough. What if we eliminated both armies. Flat out owned the fuck out of them.
By that mantra one should never stop a rape or a murder either.
Did it stop the genocide of people?

I'm not so sure. There is no way to tell.
:lol: I always liked Patton.


So because we fucked up at time means we can't stop mass killing of innocent people?
Never did and don't intend on claiming there was genocide in Afghanistan. This isn't about that, stop trying to steer it there cause I won't let it

They wouldn't because they would have the west breathing down their necks.

Safe and secure for those who wanted the exact same thing as him. Alderon wasn't too safe was it? Alderon was a Genocide, and the Rebels stopped it from happening again. How about the Mandalorian wars? Genocide there too, and the Jedi balked and nearly wasn't able to stop it, but the smart ones went out against the orders of the council and put an end to their attacks.

(Don't test me on star wars, I will win. )

   

That would be the greatest gift of all to the third world. Geneticaly modified crops are sent in millions of tons from the U.S to kill their domestic markets and keep them poor and misserable. That's the ultimate goal of Europe and the U.S of A. This goes for clothes aswell. The WTO handles the rest.

   

HAAAHAHAHAHAHAhahahaaahahahAHAHAHAHAAAAHAHahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahaha!!!!!

   

Derby you really need to reconsider your stance if you are agreeing with...this...

   

No different the the Russians flat out owning us with the exact same legitimacy and right you seem to think we have.

The whole point about being an enlightened soicety is that we are supposed to be better then they are.



Not be simply shooting both of them and a few innocent bystanders to to boot.



Did we end the violence?



Perhaps Afghanistan's people would have rose up and established a peaceful society by themselves. They certainly deserved that right.

BTW, I quite sure we would have never fought a war against Germany for no other reason then to save the Jews. Any belief otherwise simply ignores the reality of the anti-semetism of that era.



Actually yes. Not only do we not have the right to just arbitrarily enfore our will on others we have no moral ground to stand on.

Are you willing to return vast tracts of land to the Natives to right a wrong? What will you say when China decides to "liberate" the natives in Canada in order to form their own soverign country?

Will you suppor ttheir right to do so or will you justify it when we do it but oppose it when others do do?



Then you have no reason to support Afghanistan other then a desire to see our troops in action for once.



So your argument boils down to might makes right. We have the ability to invade without treat of reprisal and the others don't because we will stop them.

Your arguments are basically on the same level now as the Taliban, Saddam, (insert oppressor).

They too felt they were right because they had the military might to back them up. That arguement holds no water, sorry.



Really? Tell me about Alderon or did you mean Alderan?

As for "wanting the same as him", we are no different. We want our culture and our cultural views to become theirs.

   

And by being an enlightened society we do nothing? That's not very enlightened.

Something I failed to say earlier, is that when it comes to genocide, there are rarely 2 armies. It's more like army vs.... civilian. Sure there might be resistance, but not in the form of an army.

At least the other side has a fighting chance now

They weren't capable of it, just like the Jews weren't. Too oppressed.
Perhaps. Can you say with absolute certainty of this though?

Then we might as well stop helping anyone on earth ever again.
We aren't oppressing them. Should they attempt to liberate us they would have NATO, NORAD, and probably the UN come down on their ass. So lets be realistic.
We do it to other when there are human rights issues. Something the UN is SUPPOSED to do, but sucks at. So countries that aren't fucked up picks up the slack. I wish we didn't have to. Do I think we should stop? In some cases sure, cause some places don't deserve it. Others do, and I think we have every right to give the citizens a chance at a better life.

Not quite, not going there though.

If their reason is oil, then we have a reason to stop them. Our reasoning ISN'T oil. (Iraq not included in previous statement I'm talking about Canada)
Look above.

Spelling is immaterial.
Really? Are we forcing them to change their religion? Their customs? Are we holding them at gun point saying if you don't do what we want we will kill you? Nope.

(Are you trying to compare Canada to Darth Sidious and the Empire?)

   

You seem to think that nothing means anything except military force. It doesn't.



yet if Iraq the people being oppressed were just as bad as the opressors as seems to be the case in Afghanistan and just about everywhere else.

The Natives here certainly feel they, the civilians, are being oppressed by the army.



In Somalia? Nope. In Afghanistan? Nope. We just picked another side. I suppose if somebody else went in on the other side to "give them a fighting chance" it would be fair.

How about we all just piss off and let them sort it out themselves.



Bollocks. If we believe the propaganda then the very people who we helped overthrow the USSR are the people who can't beat the Taliban? No.

You are also ignoring the fact that we don't have the right to invade and impose any more then the people we oppose.



Can you say that the Taliban wouldn't have turned it around without our invasion?



Again you seem to think that "help" means military force. I don't object to helping people but I do object to a flimsy and arbitrary excuse to invade.

You seem to think that we alone have that right and are ignoring that we are now allowing every other country to do what they please for their own reasons as long as they have the might to do it.



They say otherwise. Once again you are simply justifying us doing the wrong thing but refusing to accept it when we are in the wrong.



Once again you simply fail to understand that we simply don't have the right to assume that responsibility. Why is it you don't think we ahve the responsibilty to feed the world even though Canada has enough food to do so? How about providing medical services for everybody?

We don't have the rifght to assume that responsibility, especially when its self appointed anymore then I have the right to make everybody live as I do.



If you are off Afghanistan, then you are arguing for what? Military intervention in Africa where no such plan is on the table?



Why? Are our reasons the only valid ones? Skipping the fact that you are glossing over Iraq and assuming the world should do also who are we to dictate which reasons are valid and which aren't for invasion? We don't even follow our own rules and so far your argument can be condensed to:

We can do what we want because our reasons are good and we ahve the might to do it and even when we break our own rules we still won't allow anybody to do the same.

We don't have that right and if we assume we do that you have no choice but to accept everybody does also and the whole world becomes "The most powerful militaries may dictate what they want".



Yes we are. We are certainly going to enforce our views on drugs on them. We will enforce our views on womens rights despite the fact that we had to grow into it very slowly. We most certainly won't allow some of the tribal cultures such as aranged marriages of young daughters because we don't feel its appropriate.

Add to the this the fact that most of the people supporting war are the very people who identify islam as the problem and not any gov't. They most certainly are waging war on religious ideology and now we are stuck between a rock and a hard place. If we force religious ideology changes then we are doing what you say we aren't and if we don't then we aren't adressing the root problems (according to others).

Eventually this still boils down to the fact we don't have the right to simply take it upon ourselves and invade foreign countries because we don't like them or their politics.

They do have the right to defend themselves though, a concept that our side seems to think is theirs and theirs alone.

Well, thats all for now as I have to go to work.

   

Dude... Long enough. I almost didn't respond.

No. Sometimes money isn't everything.

Sorry what? I'm tired and that didn't make any sense to me.
Really? The ARMY is oppressing them? When was the last time the army did anything about natives. Oh that's right, when they were firing of FIREARMS.

Yep. Considering the war is still going.

Your attempts at trying to turn this to Afghanistan grow tiresome

Key word is we helped. Notice how we helped the civilians over throw the taliban? GAH Stop talking about Afghanistan!

Yes.

How do you suppose we could help? Send money? What if the warlords confiscate the money and or supplies. Keep sending it? Or go kick some ass? *Cough Somalia Cough*
It's different when it's for a good reason, regardless if you think it is or not.

Cause I don't think we are in the wrong. Derby we have been over Afghanistan a million times. It results in me getting bored or going and doing something else and the thread falls off the top 30.

Then who does? No one?

It isn't Canada's responsibility alone to do anything. It's the world in general to try and make it a better place for everyone. Sometimes that requires military action. You talk of feeding everyone. When supplies were dropped into Somalia, the army would wait until civilians came to get the food and shoot them, then take the supplies.
If no one steps up to the plate to do anything, who will?

I'm arguing that Military intervention is sometimes necessary.

Of course not. Had China or Russia intervened in Rwanda and stopped the violence, I would have applauded them.

Iraq has nothing to do with Canada, and I'm trying to keep this away from there as ultimately it almost always ends there. I disagree with Iraq, there is no point in arguing something we agree on )

You could say that for any issue about any major country in the world.

Where have we broken our own rules?
Addressed above.

Really? Which view is that?
You mean our views that they shouldn't be stoned for showing their ankles, or the one where they shouldn't be jailed for being raped. There is a difference between forcing our views, and upholding human rights. Which was decided by the world.
Really? Cause that still goes on in Saudi Arabia. That's not something we will stop. If it doesn't violate human rights, we won't stop it. If you think we will, source it.
Islam is part of the problem, not the whole problem.

We are waging war on Human rights issues.

We are forcing radical religious ideology changes. That's completely different, and you know it is.
We can for other reasons.
Of course they do. Never said they don't.
Have a good one Derb. Good discussion buddy. Won't be around tomorrow, helping sister move so even if you respond, I may not cause I won't go looking for the thread.

   

The American military has been stationed everywhere for years, along with a handful of allies and that really doesn't concern me. What bothers me and has for a long time is when the politicians throw the old New World Order stuff around. New world order was Hitlers favorite statement, he repeated it and repeated it for years. I am not in favor of new world order nor am I in favor of the World Trade Organization which is more dangerous. Politicians and policies come and go international trade deals hang around for years and these grops start telling countries what they can and cannot do.
As a country we have the resourses and as a nationalist, I believe Canadians should reap the rewards and make the rest of the world pay dearly for them, in addition we should be using our resourses to influence the political world that neads them

   

America is powerful but they are made out to be more than they are. As you can see unless they use nukes, they can't successfully win and occupy. They can probably defeat most conventional armies but really, other than that they can't do more. They cannot occupy, their army isn't big enough proportionately compared to the world's population to do much.

   

In the first Star Wars book, Splinter of the Mind's Eye, it was spelled Alderaan and that is how I have spelled it ever since as that was the first canonical work to cite a spelling of the name. Yes, the name was Alderan in the first SW script, but then it was Alderaan after that.

Wiki concurs that Alderaan is the canonical spelling as does the SW Databank.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alderaan

http://www.starwars.com/databank/location/alderaan/

You're both wrong.

   

Previous  1 ... 4  5  6  7  8  9  10  Next