What is wrong with us????

As I cruise through this sight and read comments on patriotic photos, I see people talking about their pride in our country, our flag, our Military, yet just about anywhere outside of this website if you read papers, see people interviewed ect. They have just the opposite feeling. You can say what you want about the USA, those people are patriotic and respect their Military regardless of what their Gov't has sent them to do. Having been to the USA as a member of the CF on EX, and served with US soldiers/Marines on Operations, I have seen this first hand. Our school system I think is as much to blame. I do not recall learning ANYTHING about our military's contributions to the South African War, WW1, WW2 or Korea, or even their part in the FLQ crisis, speaking with kids today it seems the times have not changed. I think that unless this changes, PM Martin can forget about getting 5 new recruits let alone 5000, all todays kids and the Canadian public hear is about faulty equipment and whores in Borden with the HIV. Presently, I would not let my son join despite the tradition of service in this family dating to the South African campaign. Did intigration in the 60's really kill the spirit of our proud military traditions?? According to my late grandfather (WW2 Aircrew and post war RCN) Yes it did. I am so sick of hearing about our "peacekeeping greatness" I mean the public has forgotten what the bottom line is when you sign up to "defend" your country. Heaven forbid that means having to do some dirty work. Anybody have some thoughts on it?

Penatrator, couldn't have put it better myself.

I'm pretty sure that some who join are thinking "free education" which is fine and dandy, so long as they remember that it is "The Military".....and the Military, sometimes, has to fight.
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This is exactly the attitude that has me seriously thinking of getting out early, you nailed it on the head, to many programs and money wasted on making us a "friendly place to work" and equality, WE ARE NOT SIMPSONS SEARS, people need to remember what our bottom line is, you cannot run a military like a civilian corporation!!

I agree

So how are we going to make us (the CF) look more atractive to the youth, media and parlement? For that is the only way we will get the things we want.

I don't know you.

I do feel that "Getting out early" might be a poor career move.
Speaking from a modest experience with the service...
Once bureaucrats involve themselves...this is generaly where things start going wrong.
"Bureaucrats" are also the voice of the people.
People who thrive on propaganda are ill informed and are quite content with just knowing something about....
But they are voters.
Funding: unfortunately there is not much and what is available needs to be attained with serious a$$ kissing, back to bureaucracy.
The "perspective" has been lost through poor media and lack of information.
Sure the education is available... but people seem to think there is nothing else they need to put forth except a few tax dollars.

IMO... as of late theCanadian miltary has been used as a haven for spoiled,unruly misfits who's parents are at their wits end.

WHICH IRKS ME FOR THE FOLKS THAT HAVE TO WORK FOR IT!!!!

Where is loyalty and patriotism being ingrained?

Even at my age... if the phone should ring and I were to be recalled to active duty...

I AM THERE!!!!

The Military (in any branch) is not a friendly place to work... it is not some "dude ranch" from where you can bail if your cell can't get a signal.

The Military is supposed to be tough... after all
your only being trained to defend YOUR COUNTRY!

Teacakes and pastries will not be served after an offensive.

P.S I had to FIGHT for my equality in the service and which was somewhat tougher than pointing a "Boomstick" at an enemy!

This is not yet another "shot" at leadership, because there are some good solid officers out there, however, many young officers I have witnessed act as though they are part of a great big social club with outstanding benifits to its members, it is quiet sickening, I have actually heard one young Capt say "NCO's and troops are just training aides for officers" unfortunately many have this attitude, he was just arrogant enough to voice it.

Don't get me wrong...
I have never for once interpreted things as " A shot for leadership"
But unfortunately this is what some are being groomed for.
"It really irks me" to see positions handed over on a silver platter accompanied by pomp and circumstance to those who have done nothing to earn them.

(C'mon...we all know of a few.)

It is about... being taught integrity, modesty and the part I found lacking in my day...
Honour.

Any one can sell their mother up the river for a quickie promotion..
It is the one that does not that I respect.

"NCO's and troops are just training aides for officers"

Quotes such as this should be an automatic charge. Although I happened to be brought up on charges for tearing a officer a new @sshole for saying something of that sort. The charges were dropped due to a certian maj. that might have over heard the entire conversation.

I missed my point.

The point is that there are ways to teach these type of people how to not be so self serving. In that process they will either find the fastest train outa town or they will come to be decent hard working team oriented leaders. Unfortunatly some do slip through the cracks.

All it simply takes is a few cracked skulls to make them understand.

As to loyalty, integrety, & honor these are personality traits. Don't get me wrong and don't quote me on this but in my oppinion these are ingrained into a person at a young age. They can learn them but it takes a great deal of time and effort to get them to open them up to it.

Again with the cracking skulls theory. It works it realy does.

Not only does it work but I've recently stumbled appon a very good talent. yup you guessed it, Cracking Skulls.

The main point is start with Canada's youth make them proud to have a Military with such a colorfull history. It all starts with EDUCATION, not just in the public schools but throughout the Canadian ARMED Forces. STOP removing the RSM's regimental history lectures. Make not just the JR's proud to be in the Regt but make the Junior Officers take the Same lecture with the RSM. In time maybe just maybe the majority of these people will straighten out or get out.

Sadly very few have esprit de corps, I know when my grandfather was a child in south western ontario in the 1920's and 30's, they ALL wanted to be Royal Canadians, due to the proximity of the Regiment in London, now you talk to many young troops, they are not in it for the "eight point star" or whatever cap badge they wear, they are there to "pay the bills and feed the kids".

Yep...this does work.

But I am a FIRM believer that as parents... one should teach kids to beleive in themselves before Santi Clause and The Tooth Mommy..

Once we teach our young'uns to beleive in themselves instead of fanciful notions (which ,btw ,later on have to be debunked unless YOU as a parent wanna keep lying)
It is also okay to encourage children to beleive in magical things...
But IMO... the line should be drawn between real and make beleive.
My kids know now... there is no Santa Clause... well there is...
It's called Mom with her gold card.

The self serving more than likely stems from childhood.
"Never mind them"
'You just do what ya wanna do"

It all starts from home.

If I may Brag for a quick moment.

I have before me a very awkward situation that in my oppinion has forged one of the bet units in the CF.

I belong to 78Fd Bty of 20Fd Regt. We hale from the great city of Red Deer, and are diliked by our Regt. But putting that aside we are the tightest group of soldiers that I have ever seen. I have been around the Military for only 7 years but I spent a year attached to Reg Force unit (1RCHA). The espre' de corps in my bty is above any that I have ever seen. I may have a limited vission of my Bty, but I was also told this by the Deputy Brigade Comander (our former CO and former Op Athena Arty Comd). I believe this is compleatly due to the lack of officers in Red Deer (back to the cracking sculls thing) , We have 1, being very bottom heavy and allowing the Jr NCO's do the training. Needless to say we don't sit in the Jr's untill the night is done. We then drink, sing and are the most merry men you will find.

Ubique

MBdr. Waters

Couldn't have said it better myself Penetrator. This is why I tell everyone I joined when it was the Canadian ARMED Forces.

True Chop, I forgot to mention for those out their that don't realize it, officially the "CANADIAN ARMED FORCES" no longer exists, it seems the word ARMED is a little to extreme for some tree hugging arse hole who no doubt has never served, thus it was officially renamed the Canadian Forces, CF for short, sad, really.