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C'est quoi ces niaiseries là ??? Bullshit.



Most of them promoting ...



Wow, les modérateurs tombent dans le Québec bashing maintenant...



Examples of disinformation? Examples of "non-biased" media?

   

The fact that Quebec artists are not very popular in English Canada is definitely the language : this is not because you people of the ROC are Canadians, it is rather because you speak english and you behave in the same way as other english speakers.

Quebecers (and French too) are very receptive to music with English lyrics (just listen to our radio...), but English speakers seem to want almost exclusively english-speaking music (just listen to your radio). According to this principle, Celine Dion has to sing in english to be popular in English Canada and USA, but Bryan Adams doesn't have to do so in order to be popular in Quebec.

I think that's only a language and listeners preference question, not a political one. In the same way that German, Chinese or Japanese music is absolutely not popular in Canada (Quebec & ROC).

   

Is it possible to be a Quebec separatist if you live in Ontario? Isn't 125 years+ long enough to squabble? I'm all for an amiable dissolution of Canada - Face it, Quebec IS distinct. So is BC, the Maritimes and the Prairies. BC has more in common with California than the rest of Canada.

Am I anti Canadian? No. I's a great place to live. If we re-draw the political borders no one is going to pick up Quebec and move it back to France though. Borders act a lot like fire doors in a building. They keep fire (or corruption ) from spreading over too far an area too fast. Canada has existed for only the blink of an eye. Yes, I think Canada leads the world in many ways, but if it were to be divided, its accomplshments would in no way be diminished.

I just don't see why English Canada is so concerned about a breakup. Decisions should not be made out of fear.

Is there a website for anglo-separatists? I'm guessing if I wanted to run in my Ontario riding for the BQ I would poll very few votes indeed....

   

Ok, typical Ontario approach, 'screw em'.

Well my friend, there's a reason that Canada exists, and has existed for 120 + years, hardly a blink of an eye. The reasons Canada remains a nation are numerous, one of them is our diversity. This diversity should be embraced and not ignored. Think about any major corporation, is it benifical to have 10 out of 10 executives thinking the exact same way, with the exact same ideas? They'd have a hard time coming up with anything new, and be run into the ground by innovative competition. Much is the same in running a country.

Where my point lies is that the Quebecers should stop trying to split up the country, and start trying to make it work. I know it's a novel idea, but hey, it's worked for 120 + years, it may just work a little longer. Quebecers offer an extremly different perspective than any other group in the nation, just as other regional groups offer different regional biases. These differences should be embraced, debated, and resolved.

I won't be a 12 year old and believe that there won't be conflict, but when conflict is resolved in diplomatic manner, everyone's stronger for it.

Splitting up will destroy the country, and will destroy anything Quebec hopes to accomplish.

My message to Quebec, suck it up, you're getting a sweet deal now, and don't ruin what you've already got. You're not in danger of losing your culture, no more than Alberta is in danger of losing its.

(Un message pour les Quebecers. Il n y a pas un risque a votre culture. Enjoyez-vous en Canada, et arretez de parlez le sachit langue de separatisme, il devenra vieux, vraiment vieux).

   

Good point, I agree. The problem though, is that 9 out of 10 executives don't get their way 100% of the time, which makes for 9 out of 10 executives who are unhappy...



I think a lot des quebecois would say that they have been trying to make work it for 138 years (or whatever it is), and are fed up with promises made and then broken....

Also, this is not a matter of logic, there are not mathematical formulae or proofs one way or another that will show us the way forward.....It's a matter of pride and many other emotions.

People often bring up the fact that the Government of Canada seems to throw money at Quebec. But let me ask you this, if someone in an abusive relationship has money thrown at them does that mean they should stay in the relationship?

Also don't forget that Quebec gives the most money to the Government of Canada, second only to Ontario. When the Gov't of Canada gives them money, is is giving them their money.

The answer isn't in money, it is understanding and loving the history and culture that Quebec gives to Canada.



There is a risk to their culture, just as there is a risk to ours.
Example: Young girls (I'm talking 4-7 year olds!) growing up with people like Britney Spears as their role model! Do you want your kid growing up with Britney as their idol? Guess what des quebecois don't either. They however, are trying to do something about it.

That doesn't mean what they are doing is the right thing, or that it will be successful (satellite TV and all), it just means they see a problem and are throwing a solution at it. We need to stop calling them names (like rats or traitors) and start seeing that their problems are our problems, and looking at solutions together.

   

I agree with you a hundred percent here. When the name-calling and acusations fly both ways, well, it doesn't help anyone. The Canadian government needs to stop throwing money at the problem, and Quebec needs to stop crying wolf with regards to another referendum. Both do not work, and only make the problem bigger. ie. Canadians hate Quebecers because they see them as all wanting to destroy the country, and Quebecers hate the broken promises from Canada.

What I can't understand, is what more, (while still remaining part of the country) does Quebec want. So far, it gets the lion's share of Federal Spending, French is represented throughout the country (trust me, I know from experience) and everytime they speak up, the federal government jumps to attention.

Honestly, and un-baised, from a Quebecer, what does Quebec want from it's part in Canada. Do not reply with things like, 'un-broken promises' because guess what, politicans break promises to every regional group everyday, Quebec is not an exception.

I appreciate the discussion so far, and I'd just like to know honestly, what does Quebec want / what is enough?

   

I'm a southern Ontarian - born and bred - so can't help very much with that. I recently spent 3 months in Chicoutimi, Quebec though. I talked to lots of quebecois people about it, and got lots of answers.

Some don't care one way or another, and don't follow politics at all.

Some call themselves sovereigntists but WOULD NOT want to separate from Canada (there's a difference)....

Some say separating is the only answer, some want to stay in Canada no matter what....

Basically every separatist who you ask will give you a different answer on why they want to leave. People have very personal and normally extremely sensitive and emotional reasons.

One hardcore separatist friend of mine talked about how his family (grandparents, great-grandparents, etc...) had worked and bled to build their little corner of Quebec and he felt separating from Canada was the only way to honour them and keep what they had built from losing it's Quebec-ness.

I think his real problem was with commercialization, and he projected that fear onto his perception of Canada.

I think that often happens, where real issues that need to be dealt with
- and are not being dealt with - are projected into the separation arena, while they are not really separation issues.....

Je aimerais a entendre les avis des quebecois ici apropos de cette sujet.

   

I am going to be blunt. If you want to leave FUCK OFF ALREADY. I am sick and tired of this shit. I would rather have Quebec with us than without but I have just had enough. It appears that there isn't enough room in the sandbox for all the kids and if you want all the frigging toys then maybe you had better go buy your own.

   

May be I will fuel the fire, but if you want to. Let's fuel it!

My ideal Canada would be like the European Union, with a lot of of powers to the current province of Quebec (100% power on health care, education, culture, language, income tax policies, etc.), with a collaboration with other parts of Canada (may be not the current provinces...it's up to you) on defence, commerce, science. However, this is not a requirement for me that Quebec has the official status of a country, an strong international voice like Charest is currently asking would be a good beginning to an acceptable solution (but, look at Pettigrew reaction..., this is not going to happen in the current Canada). I would be very proud to be a Quebecer member of a true Canadian confederation. However, the current political orientation is "one nation, one country", with which I strongly disagree since it's the beginning for a long term assimilation.

So, I believe that supporting Quebec sovereignty is my best alternative to trigger changes to reach what is my ideal Canada described above. Look, we have the Quebec premier (Charest) which is the more friendly ever to Canada, and nothing significant is going to happen. The autonomism of the ADQ is irrealistic (asking much more with the same means than Charest...). Qu'est-ce qui reste???

So, "my YES is a YES to a better Canada"

   

10 minutes ago today, Quebec voted.....

   

This is where I disagree. Quebec and the francophone culture has yet to be assimilated in over 130 years, why would it suddenly be in danger. Why would it be in danger in the short, or long-term future. The way I see it, Quebec currently has a pretty sweet deal compared to the other provinces. So far, Quebec has almost complete control of the education, legal, health care, and impose their own form of taxation. They do not pay into the Canadian Pension Plan, and are working hard to increase their autonomy in forgien affairs.

My arguement is that any more autonomy and it degrates Canada on an international level. I mean, how would you feel if every time an American delegate can to Canada, there were two of them, and those two had completly different agendas and couldn't agree on the colour of snow (in Canada, white, in Quebec, blue). How would that help either group in any way?

More autonomy means more headaches, and it's not too long until the international community realizes this, gets frustrated dealing with two separate voices/ideas from Canada, and just stops trying/caring.

I say, you've got it pretty sweet, stop complaining, and start enjoying what you already have. The rest of Canada seems pretty happy together despite regional problems, the Quebec culture is safe, let's all just get along, and go along. It'd be a heck of a lot better if we worked together on this thing we call Canada.

   

While I have never been to Quebec, I actually have an example of what Mario is talking about.

My girlfriend works at a small company in Kentucky that has customers in Quebec. Without me asking they said when on the phone to the folks in Quebec, they can sure get upset because you don't speak french... untill they find out you are American. Then they are very accomidating. (because of this, he thought all Canadians must speak french.)

I didn't even ask the guy about this, it's just what he said when he found out I was from Canada, because that is his dealings with Canada.

   

Robair,

The arguement from Quebec for that example is somewhat justifyable. In Canada there are two official languages, English and French. A lot of Quebecers believe that because of this, all Canadians should be able to speak both, as most people from Quebec can speak both. I've spoken to many Quebecers about this very issue, and they seem to have that same message.

It doesn't make sense for Americans to speak French, as English is their/your only offical language, and those that you would be talking to you usually can speak English anyway. It would be a courtesy to them if you could speak in their native language much like it would be if you spoke Mandiran when dealing with Chinese business contacts. In Canada however, and when speaking to other Canadians it just throws salt in the wound when you can't, or won't speak the preferred offical language, be it English or French.

I like the idea of every Canadian being able to speak French and English, as we would demand the same from any National leader/icon. I'm not saying that you have to be fluent, but at least put the effort forward.

What makes me angry is when we get guys posting things like, 'maudit anglias', thinking that it's an inside joke, and only other francos will understand. Not true, some of us have an education in the French-Canadian language and understand exactly what you're saying. When you do things like that, you really shoot yourself in the foot, how can you try to make your point, and then go behind the back of the people you're trying to deal with and insult them? It doesn't help, and it's just plain ignorant.

   

It's what I think too, BUT:

Je suis lucide: Si tout le monde serait bilingue, personne n'utiliserais le français. La langue du commerce, c'est l'anglais. C'est également la plus facile à maîtriser.

Même si le français est une langue beaucoup plus belle et plus riche, elle serait rapidement abandonnée.

Que ce sois sans bilinguisme ou avec un bilinguisme total dans le Canada, on va se faire assimiler quand même...

   

I agree that the language of commerce is English, mais si tout le Canada peut parler francais, ce sera vraiment protege n'est pas. La lingue de Quebec, et Nouveau-Brunswick 'would remain.. sorry' francais. Donc, le probleme sera resude, parce-que tout le Canada pourra parler avec les quebecers dans leurs lingue maternelle, et tout le quebec pourra parler avec la reste en anglais, c'est une solution n'est pas?

   

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