A right to housing?
Yogi @ Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:20 pm
claraeve claraeve:
Good for you. You're a clever bigot.
bigot: one tolerantly devoted to his or her own church, party, or opinion.-fanatic, enthusiast, zealot.
So what is it about my method of protecting a serious investment that makes you think that I am a bigot?
claraeve @ Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:31 pm
kj
Yogi @ Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:56 am
claraeve claraeve:
Yogi Yogi:
claraeve claraeve:
Good for you. You're a clever bigot.
bigot: one tolerantly devoted to his or her own church, party, or opinion.-fanatic, enthusiast, zealot.
So what is it about my method of protecting a serious investment that makes you think that I am a bigot?I think you made your definition up.
Bigot: A prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own. The poor and welfare beneficiaries are often targets of bigots.
Point #1: Addressing your stereotype of people on social assistance.
OK, recap. Poverty is complicated. You can’t just blame poor people for their poverty. It’s ignorant. You have to look at the bigger picture. See my post on bottom of page 2.
Also:
Your attitude that poor people (specifically, people on social assistance) are lazy and deviant is part of what KEEPS THEM DOWN. If people, like you, continue to treat them like second-class citizens, they’re going to REMAIN second class citizens. Why? Because being treated like a second class citizen means you face barriers that people in mainstream society don’t: BARRIERS LIKE NOT BEING ABLE TO ACCESS HOUSING. As I mentioned on page 2, you probably have no idea what I’m talking about because
a) you weren’t born into poverty
b) you don’t have any poor friends
c) you have never experienced discrimination
d) you’ve never been poor
Also:
Newsflash: Rates of social assistance are so low that people can barely survive them. It’s not fun and people on welfare actually don’t like being dependent on the state. It’s degrading. It hurts their sense of dignity and self worth. They’d rather NOT be on social assistance. I know this because I’ve worked extensively with people on social assistance. The reason why they remain on social assistance is because they actually face a lot of barriers (AHEM…like no being able to get decent housing) which keeps them from getting ahead in life (AHEM…how can they get a job if they can’t get decent housing?).
Also:
In a landmark case called Kearney et al v. Bramalea (1998) the court relied on expert testimony that: THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT LOWER INCOME TENANTS ARE MORE LIKELY TO DEFAULT ON RENT. Usually it is an unpredicted change in circumstances, such as losing a job or getting sick, that leads to rental default. And with people on social assistance, they’re on a fixed income so you don’t even have to worry about default resulting from a job loss.
#2) Reasons for our laws
As you apparently already know but choose to ignore, a landlord can’t deny housing to a person based on their:
race, colour, ancestry, place of origin, religion, marital status, family status, physical or mental disability, sex, sexual orientation, age or lawful source of income (ie. Receipt of social assistance)
You should have made your “serious investment” in the stock market Yogi. Getting into the business of being a landlord isn’t just like any other business venture because it relates to HOUSING: A BASIC HUMAN NECESSITY.
You can discriminate all you want in your private life: among your friends, among your luva’s, among who you let into your home…etc. But you can’t discriminate in 3 key areas:
-if you’re an employer
-if you’re a service provider
-if you’re a landlord.
The law protects people in these areas for very good reasons: getting access to work, housing, and services are vital to basic functioning in society (ex. Being able to provide for yourself, your family, being able to make valuable contributions to society…etc). I’m not making this shit up. It’s pretty common sense and it’s the reason these laws exist.
It’s kinda IRONIC that you blame poor people for their poverty when you’re actually PART OF THE PROBLEM. You say they’re no-good lazies. You say it’s all their fault. But how are they supposed to find a job or have self-respect if bigots keep keeping them down?
I want to remind you that you had one bad experience with a person on social assistance. Don’t punish them all for that. There’s idiots in all social classes.
SIT UP STRAIGHT AND PAY ATTENTION!!! YOU.... are about to get a lesson on 'making assumptions!
My definition of 'bigot' was 'made up' by Merriam-Webster The New Dictionary- Page 86- right hand column, half way down the page.
I suggest you 'invest' in one!
Sterotype! I have been renting out properties for 20 years. It IS a BUSINESS! NOT A CHARITY! Not always a money maker but hopefully at least to 'break even'.
SCENARIO; YOU own a house-value $275.000 You advertise it 'for rent'- you recieve two replies- one is a single , pregnant 22 year old mother with three kids- she can't provide any work references or any references from previous landlords. She is on welfare and has not made any plans for her future in any way. You learn these things from talking to her.
You also get a reply from a young couple, maried two kids, He has been at the same job for 4 years, she works part-time at a local 7-11.She is taking night classes to upgrade her education.They are hoping to save enough money to one day purchase their own home.Probably though, it will take them a few years.They have to find a new place for now because the townhouse they have been renting for the last 2 1/2 years has been sold by the owner.
WHO ARE YOU GOING TO TRUST YOUR INVESTMENT TO? WHY DID YOU MAKE THE CHOICE YOU DID?
(a) I was born into a Catholic family of twelve kids, Father military and mother with SEVERE emotional and mental problems. Both alcoholic. When my father retired from the military he was grossing $640.00 per month.Sometimes we even had a b&w tv!
Does this qualify me for being 'born' into poverty'?
(b) I have 'worked'for over 20 years (volunteer; at a half-way house-it's what helps keep me sane and sober) in the addictions field. Over the years many have become good friends, one was even best man at my wedding)Several have come to live with us over the years while they 'got back on their feet.
(c)I have been referred to as a 'white nigger' on several occasions. Due in part to the hair style I wore for a long time. Maybe partly because Mrs. Yogi and OUR two kids are of a visible minority. I chose to teach the kids that 'ignorance is it's own punishment.!
(d) During the time between my first wife and Mrs. Yogi, I became a drunk & a derelict, Sleeping under bridges,in abandoned buildings, drunk tanks, and a stint in prison. I started back on the road to recovery in a half-way house, working menial labor jobs, digging post holes and cleaning bathrooms, whatever I could find.I was required to pay room & board. I've moved 1000 miles away for work and sent money back. So do you think I have ever been 'broke'?
I am where I am today thru a lot of hard work and dedication. And still I work and work to stay ahead and then people like you (by the way, what are you doing to alleviate the situation for poor people?) come along and tell me that I 'owe' it to some one who is too goddamn lazy to do what I did!
Recent condo purchase: $149,000
Mortgage & fees: $ 942.00 per month
Renting at present for $700.00 per month
This month- new stove: $650.00
Next few months new flooring , as what is there presents a health issue
May rent will be $950.00 per month- or DO I OWE THIS TENANT SOMETHING?
Brenda @ Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:59 am
Why doesn't a "housing-company" provide for low-cost housing? Some developer who builts an appartment-complex and rents it out? And an other thing, why do people always think they have "rights" to things they cannot afford? If you cannot afford anything more than a basement suite, that's all you will get. And if you want your own house, well, you got to earn that, work for it, because you will not be given one.
Most homeless people are in the big cities, I noticed. Well, since they obviously don't have relatives there where they can stay, they have no need being in the big city, so get them to a town in the interior, where housing is way cheaper. Then they can rent a place to stay from welfare. Alwayas a Tim Hortons where they can work, problem solved 
Of course there are always people who try to benefit from everything. But people really in need? Who are really willing to change their lives? Try getting them to an other city, cheaper to live. Sure it will be a lifestyle change, but how bad is that?
Bruce_the_vii @ Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:28 am
Brenda Brenda:
Why doesn't a "housing-company" provide for low-cost housing? Some developer who builts an appartment-complex and rents it out?
The economics just isn't there. In Toronto here there's some apartment vacancies and as a result rents have gone down a bit, a two bedroom can be had for $1000 a month. New construction is at least twice that. What's keeping Toronto alive is people are willing to spend $2,500 a month for a new construction condo.
Brenda @ Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:04 am
We had the local government owning a lot of appartmentbuildings, or flats. With a 100 to 400 2 to 3 bedroom appartments per building. Social housing, we call that...
If you're income is below a certain level, you get subsidy, so you can pay your rent. Now most of them are privatly owned (well, investmentcompanies bought them) and it works very well here. It means everybody who wants a home, can get one. Of course there is a waiting list, but you can get a home. Still we have people living on the streets, because if you don't pay your rent, you get kicked out
Even townhouses are rented out that way. There are some rules of course. You don't get a townhouse when your income is not sufficient, you don't get a townhouse if you are alone, or just 2 of you. Rule is: you can rent 1 bedroom more than the amount of persons you are with. (pffff, I mean: if there are 2 of you, you can get a 3 bedroom...) If you want something larger, buy
Another thing here: I cannot rent out my house. I'm a private person, and subtenancy is illegal. 
Bruce_the_vii @ Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:47 am
I believe there is something called social housing but it's largely a myth. In Toronto here there are some 4,000 units only, basically not much. You hear of these dysfunctional couples with nine kids and low income jobs that would have to be put in social housing. I worked with a couple with two kids that lucked out and got a government townhouse but they were trapped in minimum wage jobs, as to do anything else would mean the loss of the townhouse. A government townhouse is a route to a better life style and it can be a trap. In general the government has too many claims on it and at this time it cannot provide adequate welfare let alone a nice house.
icekarma2752 @ Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:38 am
lily lily:
$1:
Young women with three or five children, before the mother is 22, all the children have different fathers who do not pay child support. Why is it the tax payers responsibilty for a young hoe to get pregnant year after year (to up her baby bonus), where is her accountability?
5 kids before 22? Different fathers? Is this sort of promiscuity epidemic in NS or are you making this up as you go?
As for the fathers not paying child support - I thought it was national, but maybe it's provincial. Here in B.C. the mom registers with the FMEP and hte deadbeat dad's wages get garnisheed.
well something is pretty whacked here..thats going on here in sask too...if there was only some foreseeable end to this..makes me sick
claraeve @ Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:49 am
Yogi, I'm sorry for assuming you've never experienced hardship. It's amazing what you've been through and how you've turned your life around.
But the fact is you still harbour negative stereotypes about an ENTIRE segment of the population. Just because you were able to make it through with hard work doesn't mean that the others are all lazy, unworthy human beings. Not all poor people had the exact same experience as you and may not have had the support you had (like the support your wife and you were probably able to give one another). A single mother is facing an uphill battle. Where is the father in all that? Is it her fault he's fukced off? And you'd be surprised how resilient and strong single mothers are. You have to be to raise young children ON NO MONEY and ON YOUR OWN.
Brenda @ Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:24 am
5 kids from 5 fathers is just stupid. That's not a poor divorced lady, with the best intentions, that's some bimbo having fun without any protection. And then to ask where the father is... Does she even know? Sorry, but I have no remorse for those girls. And the problem doesn't end at that generation...
I feel for the women having kids, and their husband running out of them, disapearing and never pay for the kids. That's is not the way it should be done. But it happens. A lot. And that's sad.
But still, there's no "right to housing" unless you can afford it. As a single mom you probably cannot live in Calgary or Toronto, with rents over $ 1000,--. So you move. To a cheaper place. And then work your way up to where you want to be...
claraeve @ Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:30 am
Brenda Brenda:
5 kids from 5 fathers is just stupid. That's not a poor divorced lady, with the best intentions, that's some bimbo having fun without any protection. And then to ask where the father is... Does she even know?
That's what I mean by stereotyping. You've made a ton of assumptions about people, their motivations, and their life experiences here.
Brenda Brenda:
But still, there's no "right to housing" unless you can afford it. As a single mom you probably cannot live in Calgary or Toronto, with rents over $ 1000,--. So you move. To a cheaper place. And then work your way up to where you want to be...
Brenda @ Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:38 am
claraeve claraeve:
Brenda Brenda:
5 kids from 5 fathers is just stupid. That's not a poor divorced lady, with the best intentions, that's some bimbo having fun without any protection. And then to ask where the father is... Does she even know?
That's what I mean by stereotyping. You've made a ton of assumptions about people, their motivations, and their life experiences here.
Should I call it smart, in this century? THere is a thing called "choice". That's what you do, if you don't want to get pregnant. You make the choice to NOT having sex. It is not that hard! That is not an assumption, that is just common sence. But, hey, who am I anyway, huh?
claraeve @ Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:59 am
Brenda Brenda:
Should I call it smart, in this century? THere is a thing called "choice". That's what you do, if you don't want to get pregnant. You make the choice to NOT having sex. It is not that hard! That is not an assumption, that is just common sence. But, hey, who am I anyway, huh?
First of all, not all single mothers fit that exaggerated stereotpye of having 5 children from 5 different fathers. Also, part of being poor and disadvantaged, particularly from a young age, is that you don't have the same supports and access to education. Being able to make "choices" is different when you lack resources.
Scrappy @ Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:23 am
Brenda Brenda:
5 kids from 5 fathers is just stupid. That's not a poor divorced lady, with the best intentions, that's some bimbo having fun without any protection. And then to ask where the father is... Does she even know? Sorry, but I have no remorse for those girls. And the problem doesn't end at that generation...
I feel for the women having kids, and their husband running out of them, disapearing and never pay for the kids. That's is not the way it should be done. But it happens. A lot. And that's sad.
But still, there's no "right to housing" unless you can afford it. As a single mom you probably cannot live in Calgary or Toronto, with rents over $ 1000,--. So you move. To a cheaper place. And then work your way up to where you want to be...
I feel for the women having kids, and their husband running out of them, disapearing and never pay for the kids. That's is not the way it should be done. But it happens. A lot. And that's sad.
But still, there's no "right to housing" unless you can afford it. As a single mom you probably cannot live in Calgary or Toronto, with rents over $ 1000,--. So you move. To a cheaper place. And then work your way up to where you want to be...
I see Brenda you understand what I meant when I said women have five kids with different fathers. These women use these men as sperm donars, they have mulitiple partners with the goal of "Another" pregnancy. Many don't know who the father is and this results in a "Grey" area for holding the fathers accountable visa vie child support. DNA testing is expensive so Social Services nor the Provincal Government pursue this avenue.
Lilly your smart ass comments add nothing as per the norm to a conversation. Move on nothing for you to gloat over, go fawn over a convicted felon. As if you care about the suffering of the poor.
Claraeve, enjoy the blinders and rose colored glasses you wear. A vast segment of society are poor by choice or they are weak lame and lazy. By all means call me a bigot and blame me for steriotyping the poor but I've worked and lived among them. The working poor and the mentally ill and the elderly get my compassion and assistance, however those addicted to drugs or acohol need to make the choice to become clean and sober before you plunk them into subsidized housing. The first rule of addiction is to admit you have a problem, and your ideas only harm them by enabling their addiction. Addicts and drunks stay clean only when they run out of money and when that welfare check or disability check comes in paying the "Rent" isn't even considered an option.
It was the Liberal mindset that closed mental institutions and small option homes for the mentally ill and the result rendered many of them homeless. Your biased belief that you can put someone into adequate housing and "Assume" life will become rosy is flawed. People with mental health issues need monitoring and assistance, not cheap housing. However, if you want to fund all segments of society with "Cheap" housing please pay for it with your tax dollars because I'm not a socialist and I'm not paying for your socialist programs.
Brenda, we have subsidized housing in the form of apartments and houses and duplexes. Many of those who are lucky enough to get accepted end up getting evicted for being in arrears for three to five months. The land lord must apply to the Residential Tenancy Board to evict these dead beats and they can only do that in NS if they are three months in arrears. Welfare in Nova Scotia doesn't hold the recepiant accountable for how the money is spent ergo if they don't pay the rent Social Services could careless.
Here's an estimate of what a women on welfare receives monthly for five kids.
Welfare 885
Baby B. 1250
HST re. 150
Total: 2285 total income, rent 650, power 100, cable and phone 100. Leaving a total of 1435 for food and clothing (medications are covered by the government)
A working stiff at ten dollars an hours
40 hours times five weeks equals 2000 a month. No benifits and HST rebate. The working stiff pays taxes on his income.
The welfare mom pays no taxes. So what would your first choice be?? Work yourself to death or have lots of kids and live off the taxpayer?
Brenda @ Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:24 am
$1:
Why is it always about blaming the woman?
Because men cannot get pregnant, so why bother?
$1:
Being able to make "choices" is different when you lack education, family supports and resources.
And now you are making assumptions. Drug-addicts are addicts because their forced too, I guess? You ALWAYS have a choice. I know it is difficult, but you ALWAYS have a choice.
$1:
First of all, not all single mothers fit that exaggerated stereotpye of having 5 children from 5 different fathers.
You tell me? I was talking aout THAT girl. Not about ALL single moms.
$1:
Plus, what kind of society do we live in where only wealthy people have the right to choose where they live?
In what kind of world would we live if we all earned the same, no matter what kind of work you do (or don't work at all)? That is called communism. May I pass?