Are You For or Against Separatism in Canada?
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Clogeroo @ Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:35 pm
The American government is an interesting one. Sometimes it benefits us sometimes not. I can't say I love their congress or Whitehouse but I don't think I could hate it just dislike some of it's policies but so do many Americans as well.
As for Americans there are good and bad just like Canadians and every other person. I guess it is better to make judgments on individuals rather than throwing them all in the same boat. I have family who even live in the United States mostly distant relatives and I don't think I could hate them. I have friends there too. I guess throwing everyone in one big bracket isn't a good thing and I myself need to learn to look at individuals more rather than basing them off others.
$1:
If this has anything to do with the voting thing where the Prime Minister is chosen before BC even votes, then yeah, ia gree with you.
But I think these problems are nothing to separate over. Try and get it to change, don't just leave.
But I think these problems are nothing to separate over. Try and get it to change, don't just leave.
Well we don't directly elect the PM we elect mps who represent a party or may not. In someways what you said is true the whole our vote doesn't count thing. The government is usually decided before we even hit the polls so it is not like we are going to feel that connected to the feds and we shouldn't be expected too. Some might think this all can be worked out in Canada but we have been pushing for solutions for a long time. You live in Alberta yourself you must hear these things too. You are sitting on the wealthiest province in the country and for the last 50 years mostly been built by the people in your province. So now comes Canada trying to claim their piece of your success and take it away hence the Alberta vs. Canada type of thing you got going there.
The question is how long do we have to wait for a solution? 20, 50, maybe a 100 years? If nothing is happening and no one really is going to help us out then what are we supposed to do? People can dismiss independence if they want I can’t blame them for doing so but how much do we have to swallow or take? Is that just it we get to be Canada’s doormat and we should just stick by what role was created for us? I don’t think we should and maybe it is time to go and that might be the solution in itself. I’m not going to say it is perfect but could be better than what we have now. In simple terms easier to deal with more like minded provinces of four then one with ten. It would most certainly be easier to manage. We could end up being less hateful of one another and focus more on progress not the bickering Canada has mostly become. Canada could still change and maybe people in other provinces might care enough to do so. But I think if western independence ever makes a referendum chances are we would be going out the door. All I know as of now is if I got to vote I would be voting yes to leave.
Arctic_Menace @ Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:41 pm
$1:
Then why even have a forum? This isn't an encyclopaedia or an article clipping this is about views and people. I will say what I think if I want too don't tell me what to do. It's not like what your saying is even different from mine just the other side of the coin.
Oh my God, you are such a hypocrite.
You say things as though if you seperate, everything will go your way and somehow it will be all fine and dandy. So I play you're game full of "what if's", and then you turn around and post comments like this!
Talking with you in this thread has reminded of old schoolyard banter such as: "I know you are, but what am I?"
Grow up...$1:
Well they are.
Riiiiight. I see you're still declaring your opinion as fact that cannot be contested.
$1:
Funny how you say this to me “Then don't come out and say what you think will happen because you thought it all up by yourself!!!” then start doing it yourself or go on about your own speculation.
The difference between you and I is that I(like Mustang1) have some knowledge of how the world works outside of seperatist wet dreams...
Sure, some good may come out of seperating, but the scale will be tipped in the direction of bad things to come from it.
(Notice how I don't say "well", or "I think"?)
$1:
Ever thought the business environment could be better here if we have less taxes and more free enterprise than Canada?
How so? I'm all ears...(Good to see you've completely ignored my previous business related posts about this issue)
$1:
Economy would most likely fall back slightly in short term long term would likely stable out for us and grow from it.
I know refer you to Mustang1's post to the Quebecois seperatist about how this is laughable...
$1:
We would have our own armed forces and foreign policy a country with 10 million people is still not that small.
Canada currently has 32 million people living in it. How many of those are in the military?
After finding out that number, calculate the percentage...
After that, try to work out the same percentage fro a population of 10 million, assuming Canada lets you keep Cold Lake, Esquimalt, Moose Jaw, etc. and all soldiers from the West.
Do ya still feel lucky, punk?
$1:
Global acceptance? Who cares they would accept us eventually.
And how long do you think that will take? Plently of regions across the globe have been declared independent, but still have no recognition.
$1:
Credibility probably will have to build on but still people do invest in the west for many reasons that environment and atmosphere will most likely continue.
People invest in CANADA's West. Canada is a great business partner. Here's a little history lesson for you.
Long before our time(just prior to the Quiet Revolution), Montreal was larger than Toronto and held most of Canada's Corporate headquarters. Then the seperation issue came up. All of sudden, Toronto became Canada's biggest city and held most fo the Corporate Headquarters. Now, it's happening in Alberta. If a serious seperatist movement comes up there, what do you think will happen?
Keep in mind, history repeats itself.
"Those who do not learn from history, are bound to repeat it."
$1:
Mr.C is full of it as I have said before. When I said I was more Canadian than him it means that even despite my separatist leaning it is still better and more Canadian that his hypocrisy.
That is so laced with cow shit, that I'm tepmted to test it for E-Coli.
You're exposing you're own hypocricy here...
$1:
It was mostly said in passing yet everyone seems to keep throwing it around.
Because you responded very forcefully to it and it was full of anger. People don't forget things like that.
$1:
Also did you really look at the biographies of some of our founders?
Have you? I'm going to leave this one to Mustang1 since he's far better at history than me.
P.S. the answer is yes.
$1:
Don’t just look at John A but the other ones and people and what they wanted. Canada is nothing like the one they built and it isn’t even a comparison really. Why not look at why many even came together it wasn't from our love put it that way.
Not really. Canada is still similar to what they wanted. a strong, centralised union of regions that could support itself, other provinces, and to stand strong against a powerful America.
Seems pretty much the same today, dont'cha think? Also, if you signed the constitution, too bad princess. Suck it up. You think it's changed because now it's all about "me me me". Every province has it's own interests and forgets about other provinces. You are part of this crowd, so to you it seems like seperating is a good idea because you're not getting your way and you naively believe that by seperating it's going to all be magically better. Way to have your head up your ass...
$1:
Well we have had colonies break off like in the BNA and Mexico. In any case I could point out some more like Ireland, Portugal, Sweden.
What on God's green Earth are you talking about?
Note: You're starting off with "Well" again. This shows weakness in your argument...
What colonies are you talking about? (I can't wait to hear this one)
What the hell do Ireland, Portugal and Sweden have to do with this?
(Chances are either myself or Dayseed or Mustang1 are going to rip you on this one)
$1:
I don't fear America like you another thing different about us. American culture doesn't scare me. Most people here do not simply target Americans for the sake that they are American. Another sore point in western vs eastern relations with the United States go look into that further.
I now refer you to just about every single poll done on Canadian's everywhere about fear of American influence. It's not just me, it's millions of Canadians all across this country...
$1:
You don’t understand the context of "Ottawa" or are trying to be coy. It refers to the federal government.
Yes, and what does it do? Keep it for itself/pass it out all the provinces, close to what our founding fathers wanted, except for the keeping it to themselves part...
$1:
What are you going to do about it round us up and burn all of us because we are undesirables?
Obviously not.
$1:
Get real separation will always be in people’s minds as it always has.
True, but if we can convince people to stay(via media or other means) then I can live with a small insufficient minority...
$1:
Take us all out almost half the country will be gone.
You are delusional.
Besides, if your comment were any reflection of reality, I'd take 16 million patriots as the new population than 32 million Canadians of which nearly 16 million have the mentality and attitude of whiny brat teenagers...$1:
Yes eventually but might as well go out doing something better for ourselves than being dragged around like Canada’s lacky.
Everyone who has tried to create a utopia has failed miserably. It is one of those laws of nature. People who strive for a Utopia utterly fail and it becomes a Dystopia, the stuff of nightmares. Learn from history my friend...
(I love how you still claim to be a proud Canadian yet keep saying that you are Canada's lackey and you keep dissing Canada. Nice.
)$1:
Anyway how about Korea? Colombia? Taiwan? There are many countries out there just thought I would point out some major ones.
You're doing it again. Now you have "how about" in your argument. And what the hell do these countries have to do with this issue? (Can't wait to hear this, either)
$1:
If my province can be made an even better place outside of Canada it should be looked into. I win, the immigrants win, and everyone living here wins.
I love how you think everything is going to be win win. Naive youngin'!
$1:
Are you going to whine if you don’t get your way?
Fuck no, since I'm mature enough to know that I can't always get my way, so I learn to deal with that. If someone's bullying me, then I stand up to him. I don't run away from my problems...Unlike some people I could mention...
$1:
The difference between Quebec and us is we don’t really hate Canadians.
Then kindly explain your hatred and ignorance of the East. We're Canadians to, pal.
$1:
This is human nature my friend you can’t expect to tell people everything is great when they believe and know it could be better.
That is what bringd about cultural, political and societal reform, not seperation.
History; you can learn something from it...
$1:
Similar but not the same.
Nice to see that you've conceded that I am right. Thank you. You have the right to remain silent on the subject...
$1:
Or else Quebec and many other provinces wouldn’t be getting extra seats.
Which provinces? More than likely, they're going to be the ones that have rapidly growing populations and are also the most influential. It's called backroom dealings. Everyone does it. Don't expect your new "country" to be any different, should that "country" ever come into existence. God Forbid...
$1:
When did I ever say he was my hero? I have no loyalty to any political party. I don’t feel he is doing enough for the West or British Columbia.
Sorry. My apologies. Now, andwer my first question that you quoted. Who is "you"?
$1:
Wrong go look up what a confederation is. This is a federal or a decentralised one not a confederation.
If we were decentralised, Ottawa would have little power and control over things. Going by what the provinces are saying, that is not the case. Looks like you're wrong again, Skippy.
$1:
1. You are from Ontario and don’t live here. We are the people in my province British Columbia.
And you are accurately representative of the millions of different people of different ethnicities, beliefs, religions, etc.?
You are not Ontarian and don't live here, so what gives you any more right to declare how the world works any more than I do or to accuse my province of actions against other provinces?
$1:
2. Well they can vote to stay when the time comes. But if the majority votes to leave here then we are gone. They can always leave if they feel like it or move to Canada. I imagine there would be some process and a handover date then we would take control.
Problem:
You still aren't dealing with the fact that your province is dividable and it may not be economically feasible for those people to move(that's right, I used a "may"). I refer you to Mustang 1's post on this subject.
Please read his stuff. It's actually quite intelligent...
$1:
I imagine there would be some process and a handover date then we would take control.
Right. The government is going to elt you seperate AND pay for all these people to move. Give your head a shake, man!
$1:
Exactly treason is treason.
It depends on your perspective.
$1:
If you are going to stomp on me look at yourselves who would betray their own Queen and Crown one of the pillars of this country.
And how exactly would we do that? You're sounding no better than Mr_C with his "kill all who would oppose Canada" posts...
And really, what has the Queen done for us?
$1:
When your country becomes so backwards and corrupt and is almost beyond recognition of what once it was then it can be patriotic.
I believe we have already established that I have proved otherwise...
$1:
So for now I will be traitor to you or a separatist as the word seems to be but in the future I might be called a patriot for standing up for myself and the people here. That is true patriotism and I will fight for what I believe is right.
So now you fancy yourself a Patriot and Revolutionary?
You crack up, old bean. Oh, the foundinf father's would slap you(maybe shoot you) for saying things like this...
$1:
Disliking your leader isn't treason genius. Even if it is a fake leader. Do you think everyone has always loved every king and queen? Of course not.
The queen does nothing for us. It's about effing time that we flip the bitch the bird and get on with our lives.
The queen does nothing for us. It's about effing time that we flip the bitch the bird and get on with our lives.
Clogeroo, I would like to note that you are pretty much alone on this issue. Also, most of us here ahve determined/declared that CKA is pretty damn representative of the Canadian populace...
I believe it was GFPB who declared that...
$1:
I will get on ditching Canada for my own country.
Kid, make up your mind.
Are you a proud Canadian like you claim, or just a delusional kid who thinks that what you'll have after(a non-existent) seperation will still be "Canada"? Give...Your...Head...A...Shake!!!
$1:
She still represents the crown none the less.
Hooray fro purely symbolic head's of state!!!
Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:
Who would betray their own country and support leaving the country all together with land that belongs to the country then look at me and scream "Treason!"?! HYPOCRITE!
So technically, you are NOT patriotic towards Canada.
Just like the colonists of America that broke from the UK, the Americans were not patriotic to the UK, they were patriotic to America. The "land they loved" was not the UK, it was America! Just like you. The ;land you love in NOT Canada! IT'S BRITISH COLUMBIA.
So you are Patriotic to British Columbia, not Canada or Canadians.
In other words, you are a supporter of Regionalism and Separatism and not Patriotic towards Canada in any remote way at all.
Canada Corrupt?
You are lucky to be in this country. Of all other countries in this world, you are lucky to be even on this land enjoying the support of Canada and it's people.
Man, I hope all separatists think like you. Because no province is going to be leaving Canada if they all talk liek you,
$1:
When your country becomes so backwards and corrupt and is almost beyond recognition of what once it was then it can be patriotic. Much like the colonists in the United States broke away from Great Britain. To some they are traitors to others they were true patriots of the land they loved. So for now I will be traitor to you or a separatist as the word seems to be but in the future I might be called a patriot for standing up for myself and the people here. That is true patriotism and I will fight for what I believe is right.
So technically, you are NOT patriotic towards Canada.
Just like the colonists of America that broke from the UK, the Americans were not patriotic to the UK, they were patriotic to America. The "land they loved" was not the UK, it was America! Just like you. The ;land you love in NOT Canada! IT'S BRITISH COLUMBIA.
So you are Patriotic to British Columbia, not Canada or Canadians.
In other words, you are a supporter of Regionalism and Separatism and not Patriotic towards Canada in any remote way at all.
Canada Corrupt?
You are lucky to be in this country. Of all other countries in this world, you are lucky to be even on this land enjoying the support of Canada and it's people.
Man, I hope all separatists think like you. Because no province is going to be leaving Canada if they all talk liek you,
Arctic_Menace @ Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:49 pm
$1:
Yes the country the system itself and what it has become.
And yet you call yourself a Patriot.
$1:
I didn't say enough in the last few pages?
All that we got from you is that you're a whiney kid who's ticked because your province isn't getting everything that you want it to get.
$1:
Just many things and I think some major reforms are needed. If that happened maybe it would be okay but I just have my doubts over much of it ever happening as long as we try to include all of Canada in the process.
You know, now that I think about it, not once have you ever actually said waht needs to be reformed and how. All you've presented are "possibilities" of waht to do after you seperate.
Am I the only one finding a huge hole here?
$1:
The question is how long do we have to wait for a solution? 20, 50, maybe a 100 years? If nothing is happening and no one really is going to help us out then what are we supposed to do? People can dismiss independence if they want I can’t blame them for doing so but how much do we have to swallow or take? Is that just it we get to be Canada’s doormat and we should just stick by what role was created for us?
You've been in Canada for roughly a century(in some cases, even longer) and have done next to nothing(no offence to the railroad incident or Tommy Douglas). Quit your bitching. You had your chance...
$1:
I’m not going to say it is perfect but could be better than what we have now.
Could, but won't.
Arctic_Menace @ Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:58 pm
$1:
Canada is the new Great Britain and British Columbia is the new colony.
Funny, I thought you'd be happy about that given your love of the British Empire and Great Britain in general.
Oh, and guess what? The British Empire decided what we did. Canada could do nothing. So if we're going to roleplay here, you now need to shut up and obey us.
$1:
Well you’re the hypocrite first for breaking from our crown then aren’t you?
OMG, you sound like the 4 year olds I babysit.
$1:
A Nation once again,
A Nation once again,
And British Columbia, long a province, be
A Nation once again!
A Nation once again,
And British Columbia, long a province, be
A Nation once again!
And you claim to be a Canadian patriot.
$1:
Edit: I'm anti-Canada then not anti-Canadian.
Yet you claim you're a Canadian patriot?
Clog, you seriously need to grow up. SO far, all I ahve seen recently from you are posts that begin with or have comments like: "I'm more Canadian than you are", "Well, we could", "How about", etc.
Youa re reminding of the irrational child who wants to run away because he's angry at mommy and daddy, but then someone of sound mind comes along and knocks some sense into his thick skull...
Mustang1 @ Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:06 pm
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
$1:
Canada is the new Great Britain and British Columbia is the new colony.
Funny, I thought you'd be happy about that given your love of the British Empire and Great Britain in general.
Oh, and guess what? The British Empire decided what we did. Canada could do nothing. So if we're going to roleplay here, you now need to shut up and obey us.
$1:
Well you’re the hypocrite first for breaking from our crown then aren’t you?
OMG, you sound like the 4 year olds I babysit.
$1:
A Nation once again,
A Nation once again,
And British Columbia, long a province, be
A Nation once again!
A Nation once again,
And British Columbia, long a province, be
A Nation once again!
And you claim to be a Canadian patriot.
$1:
Edit: I'm anti-Canada then not anti-Canadian.
Yet you claim you're a Canadian patriot?
Clog, you seriously need to grow up. SO far, all I ahve seen recently from you are posts that begin with or have comments like: "I'm more Canadian than you are", "Well, we could", "How about", etc.
Youa re reminding of the irrational child who wants to run away because he's angry at mommy and daddy, but then someone of sound mind comes along and knocks some sense into his thick skull...
I say let the separatists wallow in their own ignorance. Besides, at the very least, when they go, transfer payments won’t be needed for their special ed. anymore. We save millions!
Mr_Canada old @ Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:29 pm
$1:
And how exactly would we do that? You're sounding no better than Mr_C with his "kill all who would oppose Canada" posts...
Yeah, but the difference is that I was kidding,
Or was I....
Mr_Canada old @ Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:39 pm
$1:
Mr.C is full of it as I have said before. When I said I was more Canadian than him it means that even despite my separatist leaning it is still better and more Canadian that his hypocrisy.
I think I missed this one.... Thanks for quoting it Arctic...How am I a hypocrite? Because you think I said something about the queen?
For the love of god,
Dayseed Dayseed:
I say let the separatists wallow in their own ignorance. Besides, at the very least, when they go, transfer payments won’t be needed for their special ed. anymore. We save millions!
ROTFL
EyeBrock @ Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:44 pm
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
$1:
Then why even have a forum? This isn't an encyclopaedia or an article clipping this is about views and people. I will say what I think if I want too don't tell me what to do. It's not like what your saying is even different from mine just the other side of the coin.
Oh my God, you are such a hypocrite.
You say things as though if you seperate, everything will go your way and somehow it will be all fine and dandy. So I play you're game full of "what if's", and then you turn around and post comments like this!
Talking with you in this thread has reminded of old schoolyard banter such as: "I know you are, but what am I?"
Grow up...$1:
Well they are.
Riiiiight. I see you're still declaring your opinion as fact that cannot be contested.
$1:
Funny how you say this to me “Then don't come out and say what you think will happen because you thought it all up by yourself!!!” then start doing it yourself or go on about your own speculation.
The difference between you and I is that I(like Mustang1) have some knowledge of how the world works outside of seperatist wet dreams...
Sure, some good may come out of seperating, but the scale will be tipped in the direction of bad things to come from it.
(Notice how I don't say "well", or "I think"?)
$1:
Ever thought the business environment could be better here if we have less taxes and more free enterprise than Canada?
How so? I'm all ears...(Good to see you've completely ignored my previous business related posts about this issue)
$1:
Economy would most likely fall back slightly in short term long term would likely stable out for us and grow from it.
I know refer you to Mustang1's post to the Quebecois seperatist about how this is laughable...
$1:
We would have our own armed forces and foreign policy a country with 10 million people is still not that small.
Canada currently has 32 million people living in it. How many of those are in the military?
After finding out that number, calculate the percentage...
After that, try to work out the same percentage fro a population of 10 million, assuming Canada lets you keep Cold Lake, Esquimalt, Moose Jaw, etc. and all soldiers from the West.
Do ya still feel lucky, punk?
$1:
Global acceptance? Who cares they would accept us eventually.
And how long do you think that will take? Plently of regions across the globe have been declared independent, but still have no recognition.
$1:
Credibility probably will have to build on but still people do invest in the west for many reasons that environment and atmosphere will most likely continue.
People invest in CANADA's West. Canada is a great business partner. Here's a little history lesson for you.
Long before our time(just prior to the Quiet Revolution), Montreal was larger than Toronto and held most of Canada's Corporate headquarters. Then the seperation issue came up. All of sudden, Toronto became Canada's biggest city and held most fo the Corporate Headquarters. Now, it's happening in Alberta. If a serious seperatist movement comes up there, what do you think will happen?
Keep in mind, history repeats itself.
"Those who do not learn from history, are bound to repeat it."
$1:
Mr.C is full of it as I have said before. When I said I was more Canadian than him it means that even despite my separatist leaning it is still better and more Canadian that his hypocrisy.
That is so laced with cow shit, that I'm tepmted to test it for E-Coli.
You're exposing you're own hypocricy here...
$1:
It was mostly said in passing yet everyone seems to keep throwing it around.
Because you responded very forcefully to it and it was full of anger. People don't forget things like that.
$1:
Also did you really look at the biographies of some of our founders?
Have you? I'm going to leave this one to Mustang1 since he's far better at history than me.
P.S. the answer is yes.
$1:
Don’t just look at John A but the other ones and people and what they wanted. Canada is nothing like the one they built and it isn’t even a comparison really. Why not look at why many even came together it wasn't from our love put it that way.
Not really. Canada is still similar to what they wanted. a strong, centralised union of regions that could support itself, other provinces, and to stand strong against a powerful America.
Seems pretty much the same today, dont'cha think? Also, if you signed the constitution, too bad princess. Suck it up. You think it's changed because now it's all about "me me me". Every province has it's own interests and forgets about other provinces. You are part of this crowd, so to you it seems like seperating is a good idea because you're not getting your way and you naively believe that by seperating it's going to all be magically better. Way to have your head up your ass...
$1:
Well we have had colonies break off like in the BNA and Mexico. In any case I could point out some more like Ireland, Portugal, Sweden.
What on God's green Earth are you talking about?
Note: You're starting off with "Well" again. This shows weakness in your argument...
What colonies are you talking about? (I can't wait to hear this one)
What the hell do Ireland, Portugal and Sweden have to do with this?
(Chances are either myself or Dayseed or Mustang1 are going to rip you on this one)
$1:
I don't fear America like you another thing different about us. American culture doesn't scare me. Most people here do not simply target Americans for the sake that they are American. Another sore point in western vs eastern relations with the United States go look into that further.
I now refer you to just about every single poll done on Canadian's everywhere about fear of American influence. It's not just me, it's millions of Canadians all across this country...
$1:
You don’t understand the context of "Ottawa" or are trying to be coy. It refers to the federal government.
Yes, and what does it do? Keep it for itself/pass it out all the provinces, close to what our founding fathers wanted, except for the keeping it to themselves part...
$1:
What are you going to do about it round us up and burn all of us because we are undesirables?
Obviously not.
$1:
Get real separation will always be in people’s minds as it always has.
True, but if we can convince people to stay(via media or other means) then I can live with a small insufficient minority...
$1:
Take us all out almost half the country will be gone.
You are delusional.
Besides, if your comment were any reflection of reality, I'd take 16 million patriots as the new population than 32 million Canadians of which nearly 16 million have the mentality and attitude of whiny brat teenagers...$1:
Yes eventually but might as well go out doing something better for ourselves than being dragged around like Canada’s lacky.
Everyone who has tried to create a utopia has failed miserably. It is one of those laws of nature. People who strive for a Utopia utterly fail and it becomes a Dystopia, the stuff of nightmares. Learn from history my friend...
(I love how you still claim to be a proud Canadian yet keep saying that you are Canada's lackey and you keep dissing Canada. Nice.
)$1:
Anyway how about Korea? Colombia? Taiwan? There are many countries out there just thought I would point out some major ones.
You're doing it again. Now you have "how about" in your argument. And what the hell do these countries have to do with this issue? (Can't wait to hear this, either)
$1:
If my province can be made an even better place outside of Canada it should be looked into. I win, the immigrants win, and everyone living here wins.
I love how you think everything is going to be win win. Naive youngin'!
$1:
Are you going to whine if you don’t get your way?
Fuck no, since I'm mature enough to know that I can't always get my way, so I learn to deal with that. If someone's bullying me, then I stand up to him. I don't run away from my problems...Unlike some people I could mention...
$1:
The difference between Quebec and us is we don’t really hate Canadians.
Then kindly explain your hatred and ignorance of the East. We're Canadians to, pal.
$1:
This is human nature my friend you can’t expect to tell people everything is great when they believe and know it could be better.
That is what bringd about cultural, political and societal reform, not seperation.
History; you can learn something from it...
$1:
Similar but not the same.
Nice to see that you've conceded that I am right. Thank you. You have the right to remain silent on the subject...
$1:
Or else Quebec and many other provinces wouldn’t be getting extra seats.
Which provinces? More than likely, they're going to be the ones that have rapidly growing populations and are also the most influential. It's called backroom dealings. Everyone does it. Don't expect your new "country" to be any different, should that "country" ever come into existence. God Forbid...
$1:
When did I ever say he was my hero? I have no loyalty to any political party. I don’t feel he is doing enough for the West or British Columbia.
Sorry. My apologies. Now, andwer my first question that you quoted. Who is "you"?
$1:
Wrong go look up what a confederation is. This is a federal or a decentralised one not a confederation.
If we were decentralised, Ottawa would have little power and control over things. Going by what the provinces are saying, that is not the case. Looks like you're wrong again, Skippy.
$1:
1. You are from Ontario and don’t live here. We are the people in my province British Columbia.
And you are accurately representative of the millions of different people of different ethnicities, beliefs, religions, etc.?
You are not Ontarian and don't live here, so what gives you any more right to declare how the world works any more than I do or to accuse my province of actions against other provinces?
$1:
2. Well they can vote to stay when the time comes. But if the majority votes to leave here then we are gone. They can always leave if they feel like it or move to Canada. I imagine there would be some process and a handover date then we would take control.
Problem:
You still aren't dealing with the fact that your province is dividable and it may not be economically feasible for those people to move(that's right, I used a "may"). I refer you to Mustang 1's post on this subject.
Please read his stuff. It's actually quite intelligent...
$1:
I imagine there would be some process and a handover date then we would take control.
Right. The government is going to elt you seperate AND pay for all these people to move. Give your head a shake, man!
$1:
Exactly treason is treason.
It depends on your perspective.
$1:
If you are going to stomp on me look at yourselves who would betray their own Queen and Crown one of the pillars of this country.
And how exactly would we do that? You're sounding no better than Mr_C with his "kill all who would oppose Canada" posts...
And really, what has the Queen done for us?
$1:
When your country becomes so backwards and corrupt and is almost beyond recognition of what once it was then it can be patriotic.
I believe we have already established that I have proved otherwise...
$1:
So for now I will be traitor to you or a separatist as the word seems to be but in the future I might be called a patriot for standing up for myself and the people here. That is true patriotism and I will fight for what I believe is right.
So now you fancy yourself a Patriot and Revolutionary?
You crack up, old bean. Oh, the foundinf father's would slap you(maybe shoot you) for saying things like this...
$1:
Disliking your leader isn't treason genius. Even if it is a fake leader. Do you think everyone has always loved every king and queen? Of course not.
The queen does nothing for us. It's about effing time that we flip the bitch the bird and get on with our lives.
The queen does nothing for us. It's about effing time that we flip the bitch the bird and get on with our lives.
Clogeroo, I would like to note that you are pretty much alone on this issue. Also, most of us here ahve determined/declared that CKA is pretty damn representative of the Canadian populace...
I believe it was GFPB who declared that...
$1:
I will get on ditching Canada for my own country.
Kid, make up your mind.
Are you a proud Canadian like you claim, or just a delusional kid who thinks that what you'll have after(a non-existent) seperation will still be "Canada"? Give...Your...Head...A...Shake!!!
$1:
She still represents the crown none the less.
Hooray fro purely symbolic head's of state!!!
Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:
Who would betray their own country and support leaving the country all together with land that belongs to the country then look at me and scream "Treason!"?! HYPOCRITE!
So technically, you are NOT patriotic towards Canada.
Just like the colonists of America that broke from the UK, the Americans were not patriotic to the UK, they were patriotic to America. The "land they loved" was not the UK, it was America! Just like you. The ;land you love in NOT Canada! IT'S BRITISH COLUMBIA.
So you are Patriotic to British Columbia, not Canada or Canadians.
In other words, you are a supporter of Regionalism and Separatism and not Patriotic towards Canada in any remote way at all.
Canada Corrupt?
You are lucky to be in this country. Of all other countries in this world, you are lucky to be even on this land enjoying the support of Canada and it's people.
Man, I hope all separatists think like you. Because no province is going to be leaving Canada if they all talk liek you,
$1:
When your country becomes so backwards and corrupt and is almost beyond recognition of what once it was then it can be patriotic. Much like the colonists in the United States broke away from Great Britain. To some they are traitors to others they were true patriots of the land they loved. So for now I will be traitor to you or a separatist as the word seems to be but in the future I might be called a patriot for standing up for myself and the people here. That is true patriotism and I will fight for what I believe is right.
So technically, you are NOT patriotic towards Canada.
Just like the colonists of America that broke from the UK, the Americans were not patriotic to the UK, they were patriotic to America. The "land they loved" was not the UK, it was America! Just like you. The ;land you love in NOT Canada! IT'S BRITISH COLUMBIA.
So you are Patriotic to British Columbia, not Canada or Canadians.
In other words, you are a supporter of Regionalism and Separatism and not Patriotic towards Canada in any remote way at all.
Canada Corrupt?
You are lucky to be in this country. Of all other countries in this world, you are lucky to be even on this land enjoying the support of Canada and it's people.
Man, I hope all separatists think like you. Because no province is going to be leaving Canada if they all talk liek you,
Besides the Queen stuff (you do need to get out on that one, the Windsors will be around in this neck of the woods for a while longer...go outside the GTA, a lot of Canadians really cherish their heritage) you have really gone up in the world recently. I find myself agreeing with you on 90% of the issues.
And you are a Liberal? Wow.......maybe I'm a 'pink' Tory...scary!
Mustang1 @ Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:55 pm
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
Have you? I'm going to leave this one to Mustang1 since he's far better at history than me.
The only problem Arctic, is you can’t help the chronically unaware until they admit they have a problem. Knowledge doesn’t work, it only enrages them, so I use them as entertainment instead.
Clogeroo @ Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:07 pm
Arctic you haven't convinced me or stated anything against our independence other than your own opinion or just feel it would fail because well you said so. Also you ridicule me for supporting the idea of independence and not providing enough factual information for you when you have presented nothing more than your own theories and speculation as well.
How do you know it will automatically fail? Can predict the future? How do you know what will happen? I have looked into the matter and believe it will be successful so what are you trying to do convince me it won't be? Also if you simply just wanted to say you disagreed you could have saved time and said that in one sentence really. If your mind is already made up then why even quote me for further inquiries? Do you want me to start pulling out some predicted graphs and charts for you and brief you on a whole detailed plan? You said it yourself you care little for what I have to say then why ask?
I hate to say this but even Mr.Canada has more clout than you right now since he at least lives in Alberta.
$1:
You've been in Canada for roughly a century(in some cases, even longer) and have done next to nothing(no offence to the railroad incident or Tommy Douglas). Quit your bitching. You had your chance..
Wow you certainly show much you value us you shouldn’t miss us when we are gone then.
You also just want to silence people? There is one for democracy. I expect to see you not voting or criticising the government then because you would just be bitching and in Arctic’s Canada according to you that is not allowed.
Mr_Canada old @ Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:07 pm
$1:
And you are a Liberal? Wow.......maybe I'm a 'pink' Tory...scary!
Me and Arctic are a weird type of "Grit"....
Pink Tory or Blue Grit, we arn't sure, but we are basically Liberals with views that we don't call Liberal or Conservative.
We are Liberals that support Patriotism, not just Liberalism...
What's best for the country. Like supporting the Military.
Fuck it's complicated.
Mr_Canada old @ Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:12 pm
$1:
You also just want to silence people? There is one for democracy. I expect to see you not voting or criticising the government then because you would just be bitching and in Arctic’s Canada according to you that is not allowed.
Nice desperate exaduration....
Clogeroo @ Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:18 pm
$1:
Nice desperate exaduration....
It is his only point people should just shut up because he said so and doesn't like it. So hopefully he follows his own statements and doesn't complain about things either or I guess he is just a whinny little baby for doing so.
Arctic_Menace @ Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:03 pm
$1:
Besides the Queen stuff (you do need to get out on that one, the Windsors will be around in this neck of the woods for a while longer...go outside the GTA, a lot of Canadians really cherish their heritage) you have really gone up in the world recently. I find myself agreeing with you on 90% of the issues.
I do cherish my heritage as well as our national heritage. Although really, she is just symbolic. She has no real purpose anymore. However, having said that, symbols can also very important...
I'm saying all that stuff about the queen to get him hot under the collar.
$1:
And you are a Liberal? Wow.......maybe I'm a 'pink' Tory...scary!
Arctic_Menace @ Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:36 pm
$1:
Arctic you haven't convinced me or stated anything against our independence other than your own opinion or just feel it would fail because well you said so.
The difference is that I can see all factors and don't get wet over the idea of seperatism. As Mustang1 said, you have no grasp of micro-economics whatsoever. You just think it will be all fine adn dadndy without considering all the facts and possibilities.
You claim that I have shown nothing. But really, I have. Remember those posts of mine about repeating history? That is a natural law of the universe, not my "opinion", as you would call it...
$1:
Also you ridicule me for supporting the idea of independence and not providing enough factual information for you when you have presented nothing more than your own theories and speculation as well.
I have demonstrated knowledge of how the world works today, what the founding fathers wanted, and how history is against you. IF taht isn't proof, I don't know what is.
Open your eyes. I hve not been going on about: "oh, well what about this?" or "Well, what if this happens. What about..." etc. etc. etc.
I have said that this WILL happen, because HISTORY is against you, and you do NOT know how it all works and how EVERYTHING is connected and AFFECTS EVERYTHING ELSE....
$1:
How do you know it will automatically fail? Can predict the future? How do you know what will happen?
Yes, because history is on my side, not yours...
$1:
I have looked into the matter and believe it will be successful so what are you trying to do convince me it won't be?
Because you are a delusional seperatist dreaming of a utopia that is destined to become a dystopia. Do you know the meaning of these words?
You BELIEVE. Unfortunately, a lot of believers don't look at history(or literature, but that is irrelevant at the moment).
$1:
Also if you simply just wanted to say you disagreed you could have saved time and said that in one sentence really.
I know that, but I wouldn't be arguing with you over this issue for the past 14 pages if it was that simple, now would I?
$1:
If your mind is already made up then why even quote me for further inquiries?
Because:
A) You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
B) Your little pipedream is full of holes.
C) Your pipedream is nothing but pure theory.
D) Your pipedream ignores history and how it has repeated itself many times.
E) 99.99999999999% of your solutions are just randomly thought up ideas that you think are the best thing since sliced bread.
That enough reasons for ya?
$1:
Do you want me to start pulling out some predicted graphs and charts for you and brief you on a whole detailed plan?
That hasn't stopped you before, so why stop now?
$1:
You said it yourself you care little for what I have to say then why ask?
Please show me where exactly I said those words...
$1:
I hate to say this but even Mr.Canada has more clout than you right now since he at least lives in Alberta.
Oh, but you know exactly how the world works, how your little seperatist wet dream is going to turn out, what America is going to do, and how ecstatic Australian/New Zealander relations are?
You sir, are quite the hypocrite...
$1:
Wow you certainly show much you value us you shouldn’t miss us when we are gone then.
I value every single bit of the nation. I just don't like the bitchy attitude. You had your chance, now shut up. I value the contributions the West and the rest of Canada has made, I just the attitudes of people like you who try to twist my words.
I fail to see how me being your mother telling to be quiet because you're having a hissy fit in public, shows any lack of appreciation or value of what I've got. Nice try, Skippy. Best three out of five? Come on, I'll even give ya a freebie...
$1:
You also just want to silence people?
In case you haven't noticed(which clearly, you haven't), I've been saying to stand up for yourselves and take action. Just don't mope around like some emo teenager and threaten to seperate just because you didn't get your way. I hate attitudes like that.
$1:
There is one for democracy. I expect to see you not voting
For the past 5 years, I have been counting the days until I could vote. And I was absolutely beaming when voted in the municipal elections in my region. Nice try, SKippy. You're 0 for 4 now...
$1:
criticising the government then because you would just be bitching and in Arctic’s Canada according to you that is not allowed.
Bitching like a teenager and threatening to seperate would not be allowed in my Canada. Standing up for yourself and making your voice heard is worthy of a medal and a standing ovation in my Canada.
There's a big difference between bitching and standing up for yourself(and not be a greedy asshole about it either).
Clogeroo, everyone else, I would like to point out that all Clogeroo is doing is firing off accusations in the dark. He's now been pushed into the corner and in case you all haven't noticed, has gone from trying to argue to just making blind accusations and twisting people's words.
$1:
It is his only point people should just shut up because he said so and doesn't like it.
People need to shut up about seperation because they look like immature emo teenagers full of angst to the rest of us. Don't twist my words. I don't twist yours...
$1:
So hopefully he follows his own statements and doesn't complain about things either or I guess he is just a whinny little baby for doing so.
If you would follow your own example of "being a Canadian", being a seperatist would be the last thing to cross your mind. Instead, you would be a federalist.
Hell, we're all full of hypocricy, but you're is really really really huuuuuuuge.
Keep firing off those blanks in the dark. I'm sure it will harm me and get me to back off.
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