John Tory and the Ontario conservatives
Bruce_the_vii @ Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:43 pm
So we agree, have the same perceptions.
ryan29 @ Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:20 pm
Bruce_the_vii Bruce_the_vii:
So we agree, have the same perceptions.
well we agree on some things related to this whole tory experiment gone horribly wrong , they just maybe weren't ready for this election and figured they would automaticlly get the anti-mcguinty vote . but seemed to of forgot that voter apathy and ndp/green party would get some of it .
so in the end the anti-mcguinty vote sort of went no where and didn't help either side. kinda surprised by that but it has happened before , look to the chretien liberals and how they got majorities even though many didn't vote for them .
but only good news out of this for the pc's is they survived well most of them , have 26 seats now and still official opposition so they more or less ended up where they were before .
Pimpbrewski @ Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:59 pm
Seth23 Seth23:
faith based school funding would send voters fleeing elsewhere.
hwacker hwacker:
He was trying to play with the immigrant vote, if he just said he would crack down on illegals in Ontario he would have won
That's true.
If Tory would not have pressed that issue, maybe the outcome would have been different. At least a few more seats for the Conservatives.
It was basically useless to try to get the immigrant vote. They pretty much tend to vote Liberals in any circumstance.
Plus, he did not need to get into that issue at all to start with. He could have prepared some other issue to top his agenda. Not saying that he is a bad politician, but his advisors were not helpful in any way.
ryan29 @ Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:16 am
Pimpbrewski Pimpbrewski:
Seth23 Seth23:
faith based school funding would send voters fleeing elsewhere.
hwacker hwacker:
He was trying to play with the immigrant vote, if he just said he would crack down on illegals in Ontario he would have won
That's true.
If Tory would not have pressed that issue, maybe the outcome would have been different. At least a few more seats for the Conservatives.
It was basically useless to try to get the immigrant vote. They pretty much tend to vote Liberals in any circumstance.
Plus, he did not need to get into that issue at all to start with. He could have prepared some other issue to top his agenda. Not saying that he is a bad politician, but his advisors were not helpful in any way.
agree he did not need to push that issue to begin with , there was allready alot of pc support and many other issues would of helped them .
his advisors should of realised this issue was hurting his image as a moderate , and that hurt him in the cities . and this issue seemed to suck all the interest out of the election campaign which hurt turnout of election day.
Mustang1 @ Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:48 am
ryan29 ryan29:
Pimpbrewski Pimpbrewski:
Seth23 Seth23:
faith based school funding would send voters fleeing elsewhere.
hwacker hwacker:
He was trying to play with the immigrant vote, if he just said he would crack down on illegals in Ontario he would have won
That's true.
If Tory would not have pressed that issue, maybe the outcome would have been different. At least a few more seats for the Conservatives.
It was basically useless to try to get the immigrant vote. They pretty much tend to vote Liberals in any circumstance.
Plus, he did not need to get into that issue at all to start with. He could have prepared some other issue to top his agenda. Not saying that he is a bad politician, but his advisors were not helpful in any way.
agree he did not need to push that issue to begin with , there was allready alot of pc support and many other issues would of helped them .
his advisors should of realised this issue was hurting his image as a moderate , and that hurt him in the cities . and this issue seemed to suck all the interest out of the election campaign which hurt turnout of election day.
Ryan, you're intellectually dishonest, plain and simple. You merely make things up, and instead of qualifying by actually claiming they're a product of you uneducated opinion, you pass them off as fact. Tory pushed the religious schools agenda and it was his from the outset - thus nullifying any "moderate" position.
Each and every time you make things up - i guess you feel it makes you appear informed, but all it does is illustrate your rather blantant ignorance - i'll be here to call you on it. In the meantime, read a book, get a clue and quit pulling these things out of your ass
ryan29 @ Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:06 pm
Mustang1 Mustang1:
ryan29 ryan29:
Pimpbrewski Pimpbrewski:
Seth23 Seth23:
faith based school funding would send voters fleeing elsewhere.
hwacker hwacker:
He was trying to play with the immigrant vote, if he just said he would crack down on illegals in Ontario he would have won
That's true.
If Tory would not have pressed that issue, maybe the outcome would have been different. At least a few more seats for the Conservatives.
It was basically useless to try to get the immigrant vote. They pretty much tend to vote Liberals in any circumstance.
Plus, he did not need to get into that issue at all to start with. He could have prepared some other issue to top his agenda. Not saying that he is a bad politician, but his advisors were not helpful in any way.
agree he did not need to push that issue to begin with , there was allready alot of pc support and many other issues would of helped them .
his advisors should of realised this issue was hurting his image as a moderate , and that hurt him in the cities . and this issue seemed to suck all the interest out of the election campaign which hurt turnout of election day.
Ryan, you're intellectually dishonest, plain and simple. You merely make things up, and instead of qualifying by actually claiming they're a product of you uneducated opinion, you pass them off as fact. Tory pushed the religious schools agenda and it was his from the outset - thus nullifying any "moderate" position.
Each and every time you make things up - i guess you feel it makes you appear informed, but all it does is illustrate your rather blantant ignorance - i'll be here to call you on it. In the meantime, read a book, get a clue and quit pulling these things out of your ass
well the faith based thing hurt his image but he is still a "moderate " as he did run in toronto and has fairly moderate views towards social issues especially , tory remains in my view a moderate still . he was actually not conservative enough to appeal to many right wing conservative voters that why they didn't do as good as expected in federally conservative areas.
Dayseed @ Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:14 pm
ryan29 ryan29:
well the faith based thing hurt his image but he is still a "moderate " as he did run in toronto and has fairly moderate views towards social issues especially , tory remains in my view a moderate still . he was actually not conservative enough to appeal to many right wing conservative voters that why they didn't do as good as expected in federally conservative areas.
Ryan,
I'm just going to start taking pages out of your playbook to get you to quit with your Tory apologizing. Tory didn't win because he angered women voters with his controversial plan to repeal their voting franchise. This, coupled with Dalton being able to show he created 700,000 new jobs including 30,000 in the manufacturing sector, turned the tide in Dalton's favour. Afterall, despite 57% of the electorate who turned out to vote being registered right-wing voters, McGuinty took 87% of their vote. So much for your "didn't do as good as expected in federally conservative areas" huh?
Arctic_Menace @ Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:29 pm
$1:
Tory didn't win because he angered women voters with his controversial plan to repeal their voting franchise.
Whoa, what was this now?! I don't remember anything like that in the election...
ryan29 @ Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:31 pm
Dayseed Dayseed:
ryan29 ryan29:
well the faith based thing hurt his image but he is still a "moderate " as he did run in toronto and has fairly moderate views towards social issues especially , tory remains in my view a moderate still . he was actually not conservative enough to appeal to many right wing conservative voters that why they didn't do as good as expected in federally conservative areas.
Ryan,
I'm just going to start taking pages out of your playbook to get you to quit with your Tory apologizing. Tory didn't win because he angered women voters with his controversial plan to repeal their voting franchise. This, coupled with Dalton being able to show he created 700,000 new jobs including 30,000 in the manufacturing sector, turned the tide in Dalton's favour. Afterall, despite 57% of the electorate who turned out to vote being registered right-wing voters, McGuinty took 87% of their vote. So much for your "didn't do as good as expected in federally conservative areas" huh?
agree he was hurt by women voters for sure , as polls indicated that in final weeks.
but dalton did not win because everyone though he was doing a great job , he only got 41% of the vote province wide much less then 47% last election .
he simply won because he played the faith based card against the pc's by turning average onatrians against religion/christians and cultures like muslims and jews . it was rather disgusting in my opinion that he got away with this .
he did not win for any other reason and stop claiming that he did .
Arctic_Menace @ Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:35 pm
$1:
he simply won because he played the faith based card against the pc's by turning average onatrians against religion/christians and cultures like muslims and jews .
Dalton didn't do anything. The public is the "culprit".
ryan29 @ Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:41 pm
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
$1:
he simply won because he played the faith based card against the pc's by turning average onatrians against religion/christians and cultures like muslims and jews .
Dalton didn't do anything. The public is the "culprit".
dalton didn't do anything is correct he also failed to talk to many average ontarians during this campaign . or talk about many important issues .
but he did use the faith card to his advantage , and the public got fooled into believing him .
Dayseed @ Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:47 pm
ryan29 ryan29:
agree he was hurt by women voters for sure , as polls indicated that in final weeks.
But a poll had John Tory leading or ahead in over 85% of polls in which the majority of those polled were registered right-wing women voters. What happened to that lead because on election day, Tory only took 22% of that same vote. It was even worse among older women voters.
$1:
but dalton did not win because everyone though he was doing a great job , he only got 41% of the vote province wide much less then 47% last election .
Sure he did. Past elections show us overwhelmingly that incumbents repeating a majority term often have over 60-65% confidence in the electorate. True enough that Dalton doesn't quite have the confidence numbers that Bill Davis did, who had them in the 80's range, but Dalton is square in the estimated average.
$1:
he simply won because he played the faith based card against the pc's by turning average onatrians against religion/christians and cultures like muslims and jews . it was rather disgusting in my opinion that he got away with this .
But exit-polling showed that the religious vote was split almost evenly among Liberals, PCs AND the NDP. How do you explain that?
$1:
he did not win for any other reason and stop claiming that he did .
Sure he did. McGuinty's government had reduced deficit spending which boosted investor confidence across a broad-base spectrum allowing for the decreased marginal tax-rates which allowed the creation of the 30,000 manufacturing jobs YOU claim he didn't create.
McGuinty won fair and square.
Mustang1 @ Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:59 pm
ryan29 ryan29:
Mustang1 Mustang1:
ryan29 ryan29:
Pimpbrewski Pimpbrewski:
Seth23 Seth23:
faith based school funding would send voters fleeing elsewhere.
hwacker hwacker:
He was trying to play with the immigrant vote, if he just said he would crack down on illegals in Ontario he would have won
That's true.
If Tory would not have pressed that issue, maybe the outcome would have been different. At least a few more seats for the Conservatives.
It was basically useless to try to get the immigrant vote. They pretty much tend to vote Liberals in any circumstance.
Plus, he did not need to get into that issue at all to start with. He could have prepared some other issue to top his agenda. Not saying that he is a bad politician, but his advisors were not helpful in any way.
agree he did not need to push that issue to begin with , there was allready alot of pc support and many other issues would of helped them .
his advisors should of realised this issue was hurting his image as a moderate , and that hurt him in the cities . and this issue seemed to suck all the interest out of the election campaign which hurt turnout of election day.
Ryan, you're intellectually dishonest, plain and simple. You merely make things up, and instead of qualifying by actually claiming they're a product of you uneducated opinion, you pass them off as fact. Tory pushed the religious schools agenda and it was his from the outset - thus nullifying any "moderate" position.
Each and every time you make things up - i guess you feel it makes you appear informed, but all it does is illustrate your rather blantant ignorance - i'll be here to call you on it. In the meantime, read a book, get a clue and quit pulling these things out of your ass
well the faith based thing hurt his image but he is still a "moderate " as he did run in toronto and has fairly moderate views towards social issues especially , tory remains in my view a moderate still . he was actually not conservative enough to appeal to many right wing conservative voters that why they didn't do as good as expected in federally conservative areas.
What the heck does that mean? How do you define "moderate"?!?!?!? I got news for ya', a centrist doesn't suggest ripping apart the educational system to allow socially regressive ideas to challenge our cherished cultural values. Why not define a conservative and a "moderate" as, to be honest, I don't think you have any idea whatsoever as to what these terms mean on the political context.
You do realize, in you infinite wisdom, that Ontario is and, for the most part, has been a bastion of Red Toryism for most of its history and therefore, if Tory was truly a moderate (which he's not) if would've rewarded electorally.
Please, please read something on politics as you seriously have no idea about what you post
Mustang1 @ Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:02 pm
ryan29 ryan29:
Dayseed Dayseed:
ryan29 ryan29:
well the faith based thing hurt his image but he is still a "moderate " as he did run in toronto and has fairly moderate views towards social issues especially , tory remains in my view a moderate still . he was actually not conservative enough to appeal to many right wing conservative voters that why they didn't do as good as expected in federally conservative areas.
Ryan,
I'm just going to start taking pages out of your playbook to get you to quit with your Tory apologizing. Tory didn't win because he angered women voters with his controversial plan to repeal their voting franchise. This, coupled with Dalton being able to show he created 700,000 new jobs including 30,000 in the manufacturing sector, turned the tide in Dalton's favour. Afterall, despite 57% of the electorate who turned out to vote being registered right-wing voters, McGuinty took 87% of their vote. So much for your "didn't do as good as expected in federally conservative areas" huh?
agree he was hurt by women voters for sure , as polls indicated that in final weeks.
but dalton did not win because everyone though he was doing a great job , he only got 41% of the vote province wide much less then 47% last election .
he simply won because he played the faith based card against the pc's by turning average onatrians against religion/christians and cultures like muslims and jews . it was rather disgusting in my opinion that he got away with this .
he did not win for any other reason and stop claiming that he did .
Ryan, seriously, read what's being posted, as you're illustrating quite well how little you know on the subject. You just agreed that Tory tried to repeal the female franchise. I think you need desperately to abandon politics to the informed and politically aware.
Bruce_the_vii @ Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:41 pm
lol. I think he actually missed that. I trust that Ryan is young. The young miss things. I know I certainly did.