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[font=Arial] [/font] Hi Derby;

Okay, point taken, I have not voted Liberal. But to be perfectly honest with you I have only really started to sit up and take notice over the last few elections And yes, I know that I should have been more on the ball than I was but chalk that up to being a bit lazy and too young.


I am a reasonable person, I enjoy listening to other peoples' opinions and ideals. But I also enjoy a good debate if our opinions are different.

When I talk about the Liberal party, I am directing most of my anger towards a select group of them, with Martin being at the top of my list. I just find it insulting that he would say he had "no clue" as to the wrong doings in the Adscam. How could he not???? Yes Gomery cleared him, but to me that means nothing. How could our Finance Minister not be aware of the finances involved in the Adscam???

All I am trying to basically say Derby is I feel that the Liberal party has been in power too long, it has made them have a very "we are priviledged" attitude. I truly think that the Liberals feel they don't have to answer to Canadians and I also think that the more we let them away with the worse it is going to get.

I wasn't trying to offend you and you are entitled to your opinion, I just wish it was the same as mine

I want Canadians to give the Conservatives a shot, I mean if they prove themselves to be unworthy then we can always vote again

   

As I said before..
I wouldn't be slamming the Fiberals if they didn't constantly keep screwing up. I don't make this crap up and I don't really like to see it, but I think Canadians, including you, deserve a better government. Canadians pay a great deal of taxes and I want to see us get value for the money.
Remember, I'm old time Reform. I don't want to see a different member of the old boys club get in, I want to see the system changed so this crap can't happen again.

As for the Mulroney boogeyman, it's getting a little old now. That was a very different party and a very different staff of people, which is definitely more I can say of the post-Gomery Fiberals.

   

[font=Arial] [/font] Hi Ride;

Well said

I just want to see change! Its time to let someone else "take the bull by the horns" and gain the trust back of the little people like you and I

   

Very easily. The main point is he was not guilty, a liar or a crook. If you think that then condemn him as something else.



See above.



Not knowing what province you are from hampers me somewhat. The biggest Lib opposition (not counting the bloc) comes from Alberta and they cannot ever hold the opinion that "its time for change just for change sake." I don't hold that opinion anyway. The cons must earn their place or we can just as easily elect the NDP because "its their turn"! The cons had their turn after all.



Don't we all wish that.



And I want all parties to focus on the issues, not BS kindergarten politics.



I don't believe you. No-one goes on a hate-filled vendetta like yours with that opinion. Its ironic that the Xtian apologetics on this forum crucified me for posting "anti-Xtian rhetoric" at a fraction of your anti-[liberal volume yet none of those cowards (RUEZ, I am talking about you) have said boo about your posts. I have as much right to post anti-religious posts as you do about the Libs but people only see the prejudices of others eh?



Mate, I don't know you so I don't know if you have travelled abroad. I pay far less tax here then when I was in the UK or AUS and I am in the upper income bracket now. Ask MCB. He HATES the Libs (& Canada) and he left AUS because of taxes. We only suffer next to the US and they will pay in spades when their out-of-control defecit & debt catch up with them.



Think the cambell PC's would have been any better? Regardless, I do not hold to "the sins of the father" and Martin & Chretein were at enough odds that the old-boy network didn't cross. I'll quote CanadianGirl

The same goes for Martin. If Gomery slays him then I won't support him, but you knoiw it isn't true. You also know that if it were the libs trying to force an election on their terms and the cons were "forced" to call an election over the holidays then you would be slaying them.

Do yourself a favour, tell harper to not force a Xmas election or he will lose for sure. There are enough CDN voters ready to vote against the party that pisses them off the most.

Here's another bet: If you refrain for at least 5 days (120 hours from this post) from posting a single attack against the Libs and instead post only conservative platforms (without anti-lib commentary) then I will forgoe (sp) my opposition to the conservatives based largely on my disgust for anti-liberal hatred and reaxamine all the issues. It might let the forum catch a breather and discuss important things like hockey for a change. How about it eh?

   

[font=Arial] [/font] Hi Derby;

I live in the Province of Ontario Just outside of the City of Toronto.

I use to live in Toronto but then headed for the hills cuz it got really dangerous there. It is definitely NOT the Toronto I knew as a kid

   

But has my "hate filled vendetta" been unfounded? Did I make up all those stories? Aside from my thread about Liberals hating Christmas , I've stood behind my posts. You are definitely free, and encouraged to challenge them. Anyone can post whatever they want, but it is an open forum and they should be able to back it up with more than "well, everybody knows"

I see no reason to deal. I post these things because they interest me and I believe that others would also be interested in them too. If you find dirt on Harper, the CPC, anyone, I expect and want to see it. Good, fair discussion is the basis for democracy and that's what I want to see here.

Besides, if people don't want to read politics, they don't have to click the threads.

   

I guessed wrong. Its interesting to note that you came "of politically age aware" in the time of Liberal scandals and I did during the time of PC bankruptcy. Interesting statements about both our political views.

I try to vote on the issues though. We saw loads of scandals with the PC's as well. We don't care if "extra #2" got caught with a prostitute but we do (seem) to care if Tom Cruise. Do you understand the point?

You want change fine! You don't trust the Libs, your opinion. Have you looked at the issues? What are your stances on abortion? How about SSM? How about private healthcare? Military spending? Closer/lesser ties to the US? Cleaner air? Cleaner water?

I'm not trying to pick a fight but have you examined the issues, the REAL isuues instead of going by (an all too CDN opinion) BS political mudslinging & gut reactions? Hell, if I wasn't grounded in reality I would vote green or NDP.

If I come away with nothing else please answer this:

--- Given that either the Libs or Cons will form a minority gov't next election which 2 parties would you rather see work togeatrher and which 2 party platforms (1/2 each) woul you rather see implemented. You know my answer.

If your beef is with the "corrupt" Lib elements then don't attack the policies. If you disagree with the Lib policies then say it with pride and don't use "corruption" as a cop out.

No matter what party we vote for (bloc not included) we all have Canada's best interest at heart right?

   

[font=Arial] [/font] Hey Derby;

Abortion: my stance is Pro-choice, obviously I would like EVERYONE to follow common sense and if you don't want a baby then adopt the attitude of "no glove, no love" But I refuse to dictate to a woman what she can and cannot do to her body. I had a run in with a Pro-lifer quite some time back, they were standing on the side of the road with blown up pictures of dead fetuses for all to see that were stopped in their cars at the lights, the car infront of me had two children sitting in the backseat! I drilled down my window and asked the person holding one of the signs "why are you doing this?" The person responded "we are fighting to protect the unborn children", I said "well have you thought about the children in the car infront of me that you have just shown that God awful picture too?" Are you thinking about their little minds and feelings????

Clean Water and Air: A MUST HAVE! Again, I remember being a kid and being taught by my parents that Littering of any kind was wrong. I have driven through Hamilton and looked at all the factories and manufacturing plants spewing out their waste and smoke and it makes me sad. I wonder what this world will be like for my children and their children.

Military Spending: Our Military is a joke! I think we definitely need to beef up our Military, we would be in sad sad shape if anything were to ever happen. Can we still count on the US? Not if Martin has his way.

Closer ties to the US: Definitely, I grew up hearing how the US was our closet friend and ally. Now, I think our relationship is very strained with them to say the least. Do I think that when the US says "Jump", Canada should say "how high", HELL NO!! I don't agree with the war in Iraq, I think that instead of invading them, the US and the rest of the countries (including Canada) should have completely cut them off! Hit them where it really hurts, in the bank account! So many innocent lives lost

SSM: Sorry, I don't know what this is short for?

Private Health Care: I don't really like this. I worry for those that can't afford to see a doctor. But on the other side I think that there should maybe be some limitations put on Healthcare. Some do abuse the system, thus we now have Healthcards that expire and Healthcards that have your pic on them.

K, here is another thing that REALLY pizzes me off....I watch the political channel and I can't stand the fact that I as a Canadian have to wait for an interpreteur to tell me what they are saying....yes we are a bilingual country...but our first language is ENGLISH...I think that there should be an interpreteur saying things in French...not ENGLISH!!! That just completely drives me insane I use to feel embarassed when Creeptian would go anywhere on behalf of Canada and would speak just all French....remember his Whitehouse visit....the azz stood on the Whitehouse lawn and spoke just French....what the hell was that all about!!!

   

My point with all my posts. the point isn't that they happened but they are far less important then you think. All that crap will happen regardless as too who's in charge or not. The same shit happened with the PC in charge an you can't just wring your hands of them.

Canadiangal wrote:

Mine too. It was not so long ago that a hardcore conservative stance was pro-life with no choice. A view still held by their old alliance members. Did you know that? They turffed that stance when they realized that a pro-life party cannot win a majority in Canada. They are still there in the partyy and will try to push that agenda. Canada's abortion policy is heralded worldwide as very free & progressive.



Then vote green or NDP. The truth is a policy like that will massively harm CDN industry and neither the Libs or the cons support any real "green" policies.



On account of running 40 years of deficits, the worst (20 bil/yr) were from the PC's. Now that we have it under control we can rebuild and its the one area I trust the cons more then the Libs.



Any closer and GWP would be using my TP to wipe his ass. We are as close as we should ever be. They want control over our resources and will get them through political means if we are not careful.



Single Sex Marriage ---- AKA Gay rights. Freedom in another word.



And you are voting CPC???? Have you read the issues? The CPC is all about a large # of private healthcare bills. Thats 2 major issues with the CPC you disagree with. Remember what I said about the issues?



Wrong. I think it is right & proper that for all those not bilingual (me included) that you must have an interpreter for at least some on what they say. Its unique. Its Canadian.

   

CanadianGal don’t listen to his BS, he thinks that what he reads about the Liberals is true, well it's not. They are corrupt and liars. Just look at the last election promises made by the Liberals and find the ones they really put into policy. They are full of it and I think you already know this.


“Say whatever is needed to keep power” that should be the Liberal motto.

   

So these are the issues?
These are the typical hot-button topics you parade out to show you're enlightened "Canadian values". The CPC is tarred as radical, intolerant, religious fanatics, and all the policy statements won't change because "every body knows".

abortion?
Let the voters choose in an open vote on a municipal, provincial or national level. Is someone getting or not getting an abortion the biggest problem that Canada is facing?

How about SSM?
This is their fave because the CPC wants to keep the word marriage as the union of one man and one woman. They want parliament and the voters to choose this, instead of using Liberal appointed judges to decide.
Again, let the voters decide.

Private healthcare?
Is this in Quebec or Canada, because there are 2 different policies here.
The system is broken and just paying more money is not working now, nor will it in future. We need to change things and we need to talk about it.

Military spending?
Who killed the Canadian Military
Do a google on CDN Forces rust-out. This even woke up the Liberal appointed majority senate.
I could go on for quite a long time on this one.

Closer/lesser ties to the US?
Our biggest and most important trading partner. Until our economy and military are self-sufficient, we should be keeping Mrs.. Parish off the air. Anti-Americanism plays well for votes in the east but it's just pissing in everybody's pool.
By the way, did Paul ever phone George over that soft wood?

Cleaner air?
I'm sorry, has one party come out and said it's new "war on clean air"?
I don't want to make Maurice Strong and China more wealthy, unilaterally supporting junk science like Kyoto.

Cleaner water?
Another motherhood issue.
Maybe we could ask some of the Indians on this one.


What about democratic deficit? Both ends of the country are seriously thinking that they'd be better on their own. That's a big problem that sits in the Liberals lap like a dead cat.

Accountability in government? Not an issue? When's the last time a minister stepped down because they screwed up? We've had a number of big screw ups and heads should have rolled, but instead they get promoted.

Did we forget Shela Frasers report already? Taxpayers money is being squandered hand over fist and "they all do that" is not the answer.

Even solid liberal supporters should see that their party has a whole lit of internal rot and needs time to clean it out. I'm hoping that Canadians just won't accept that sort of crap any more.

   

[font=Arial] [/font] K, Now I feel stupid...SSM...I can't believe I couldn't figure out what that was short for

Anyways, I am NOT against Gay people, do what you want sexually in your own home as long as both are CONSENTING adults....but my view has always been, God created Adam and Eve....NOT...Adam and Steve!

When I lived in Toronto, I had two gay neighbors, one of the men had fathered a child with a woman that he had mislead, telling her he loved her, wanted to marry her etc...when all along he used her to father a child and then he took her to court and got the child....(he and his family had money, she had none) anyways, he and his "partner" moved into a townhouse together and are raising the child, his partner plays with and buys barbie dolls Now I know not all gay couples are like this, but I truly feel that children have a hard enough struggle growing up with outside problems, I really don't think that they should have to suffer the embarrassment of having two male parents show up at Parent Teacher night or school plays holding hands. Kids can be cruel enough when there is normal circumstances let alone give them the ammunition of seeing little Johnnie's daddy holding hands with another man or mommie holding hands with another woman

   

[font=Arial] [/font] Hi Hwacker;

I listen to everyone, listening is one thing, being swayed by what people say..is another

I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion and they have a right to voice it.

The only thing I am hoping to try and get across is the fact that I think it is time for the Liberal party to go...step down...wave the big good-bye etc etc. I want to see what the Conservatives can do, I think it is time to give them centerstage...Lets see what they can do for Canada

The next couple of days should be very interesting Let the battle begin...

   

I'd agree with that.
Whatever consenting folks want to do is fine with me and I honestly don't care what they call their union. If the churches don't want SSMs, that's up to them, and I don't think it's within the CDN law to force them to. On the flip, there were 2 straight guys who wanted to get hitched for the tax benefits. What the hell do I care.
Again, on the national level, it's pretty small potatoes.

This is bait for hot heads. If they get any reaction then they can stereotype you the lable homophobe, racist, neo-con (?) or whatever causes the biggest knee jerk reactions.

   

I listed issues that I am concerned with. You have no right to complain about any names being thrown at the CPC as you yourself do worse to the Libs. Don't let me catch you saying this again K'ay!



The voters will not decide this period. It is a basic fundmental right for a women and we wil not take that away from them. Lets have the voters decide about women voting & driving. How about lets have the voters decide to disallow/allow slavery? Get the picture. This is not a votable issue. If you don't want an abortion don't get one but down f*cking force your beliefs on someone else who does. Any party who will not support this will not get elected in Canada and it is exactly why the CPC is trying desperately to show that it will not tamper with thse rights.



Again the voters don't get to decide. Its a basic freedom and opposing SSM is a form of bigotry no different then opposing blacks marrying or marriages not performed in a catholic church as was a commonly held opinion just a few generations ago. You want the voters to start deciding which marriages are legal and which aren't. Bollocks. Equality & freedom not religious bigotry.

Thats twice you want to let voters decide how to force their beliefs on others. Why don't we let the voters decide which religions to allow? Just a hairs difference. How about this? We'll let each individual person decide who they want to marry and what lifestyle choices that affect none but themselves they want to make, K'ay!



You didn't exactly state which side you were on. Our system is far from broken. That is just BS. If you think ou sytem is busted then so is every other countries on earth. Our system does exactly what it was designed to do, deliver affordable, dependable, and freely accessable primary care. Where are system has difficulty is in secondary care which includes things like elective & non-life threatening surgery, physio, etc. We need to keep the primary care as it is and allow private clinics to offset the secondary care. This will ease the burden on hospitals and allow people who are willing to pay more for quicker/better service the opportunity.



Think the PC's were innocent? I grew up on a base when they were in Gov't listening to all the families curse them as we saw service after service shut down. They even closed my highschool. The fact is that Canada was in no financial shape to change this when the Libs came to power and anyone expecing them to do so with an out of control debt/deficit is just incorrect. Now we can afford to do so thanks to the Libs. You are welcome Ridenrain.



Yes, and no we don't need closer ties to the US. If we did we'd be in Iraq now. You say we have so many myths about the CPC well the whole "east is anti-amercianc" is just BS. We just don't see the need to bootlick like you westerners. I bet that made you see red. Don't call us anti-American and we won't call you bootlicking US toadies!



Thats why I said vote green. The truth is we would have to make drastic lifestyle changes and decimate industry to really make a difference and we aren't going to do that.



I see it as 2 spoiled children taking advantage of parents trying to make everyone in the family happy. How you think the CPC is going to wave a magic wand and solve unity problems is beyond me.



Even CPC supporters should see the harper is simply not the man to run the country. Even CPC supporters should see that to much of their core support is far right religious rot and needs to be cleaned out if they really want a chance.

Well, Ridenrain, you didn't post a single rant about the libs all being crooks. Day 1 has come and gone. 6 days can seem like a long time though.

Canadiangal wrote:

I hope you are joking. That is the worst of religious bigotry and about as complete a lie as you can get. If you believe that your god created everything then by definition you believe he created homosexuals as well. There are plently of threads where evolution trumps creationism so I'll just keep this political. Just as you have the freedom to follow the religion and beliefs of your choice and its protected by law so to do homosexuals have the right to marry just like any other couple.



Oh please. Then lets outlaw parents giving kids dumb names or dumb spellings that will get them teased and picked on. Lets outlaw the playground since it always happens there. You can do better then that.



By that token we should let the NDP in then. They deserve a shot right? Whens the last time they governed federally? "give someone else a turn" is not a very compelling argument for choosing the conservatives.

   

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