Removal of Canadian Flags
Nicoleking @ Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:15 pm
$1:
Cities join Nfld. premier's flag protest
Last Updated Wed, 29 Dec 2004 20:17:28 EST
ST. JOHN'S, NFLD. - The cities of Newfoundland and Labrador have followed the province into the breach, and are refusing to fly the Maple Leaf.
Last week, Premier Danny Williams ordered the Canadian flag removed from provincial buildings after negotiations with the federal government failed to produce a deal that would allow the province to keep all the revenue from offshore oil and gas.
FROM DEC. 23, 2004: Maple Leaf flags removed in offshore feud
Williams called the latest offer from Ottawa a "slap in the face" and said he wouldn't talk any more.
The mayors of St. John's, Corner Brook and Mount Pearl have now offered their support for Williams's stand, ordering the Maple Leaf removed from their city halls.
"I think it's important as citizens of this province, as citizens of Newfoundland and Labrador, to let the federal government know that we're behind the premier on this issue," said St. John's Mayor Andy Wells.
In Mount Pearl, Mayor Steve Kent has replaced the Maple Leaf with the pink, white and green ensign designed before Newfoundland joined Confederation.
"This is not about being anti-Canadian," said Kent. "This is about being pro-Newfoundland and Labrador. This flag that we've raised is a symbol of our historic struggle as a people."
Not every mayor in the province agrees. Some towns aren't sure the Atlantic Accord and the flag flap are linked.
In Happy Valley-Goose Bay, Mayor Leo Abbass said the Maple Leaf will still fly, even though he supports Williams.
"The flag seems to be a separate issue right now, and we're really not sure why the flags were removed," Abbass says.
Stephenville Mayor Cec Stein says the town does not fly flags through the winter, and hasn't made a decision on flying the Maple Leaf.
"I guess when you get so frustrated, the message has to be loud and clear," said Stein.
"We've been screwed around with and I guess it's time for somebody to listen, but maybe not that far."
Williams is enjoying vocal support from people in the province, who are calling in to radio shows and writing letters.
However, Sam Connors, a former president of the provincial Federation of Municipalities, is outraged by the flag decision.
His son Neil has served in five Canadian military operations, most recently in Afghanistan.
"He was there when his buddies died under the flag, and I think it's really despicable that the premier of the province would take down the Canadian flag," said Connors.
"There's got to be another way to negotiate than that."
Newfoundland and Labrador has been pushing, along with Nova Scotia, to retain 100 per cent of offshore energy revenues without paying a penalty in clawbacks to equalization payments.
Ottawa now takes up to 70 cents of every dollar by reducing equalization payments.
Finance officials have said that Ottawa's latest offer would end the clawbacks, putting $2.5 billion to $3 billion into the provinces' coffers.
But Williams said the proposal falls short of the 100 per cent of revenues promised him by Prime Minister Paul Martin, and that the province could lose at least $1 billion of offshore revenue over the next eight years.
Williams also objected to a condition that required the province to eliminate its $700-million deficit in order to receive increased benefits from offshore revenues beyond eight years.
Nova Scotia Premier John Hamm said he will continue to negotiate with Ottawa. New talks are planned for January.
Last Updated Wed, 29 Dec 2004 20:17:28 EST
ST. JOHN'S, NFLD. - The cities of Newfoundland and Labrador have followed the province into the breach, and are refusing to fly the Maple Leaf.
Last week, Premier Danny Williams ordered the Canadian flag removed from provincial buildings after negotiations with the federal government failed to produce a deal that would allow the province to keep all the revenue from offshore oil and gas.
FROM DEC. 23, 2004: Maple Leaf flags removed in offshore feud
Williams called the latest offer from Ottawa a "slap in the face" and said he wouldn't talk any more.
The mayors of St. John's, Corner Brook and Mount Pearl have now offered their support for Williams's stand, ordering the Maple Leaf removed from their city halls.
"I think it's important as citizens of this province, as citizens of Newfoundland and Labrador, to let the federal government know that we're behind the premier on this issue," said St. John's Mayor Andy Wells.
In Mount Pearl, Mayor Steve Kent has replaced the Maple Leaf with the pink, white and green ensign designed before Newfoundland joined Confederation.
"This is not about being anti-Canadian," said Kent. "This is about being pro-Newfoundland and Labrador. This flag that we've raised is a symbol of our historic struggle as a people."
Not every mayor in the province agrees. Some towns aren't sure the Atlantic Accord and the flag flap are linked.
In Happy Valley-Goose Bay, Mayor Leo Abbass said the Maple Leaf will still fly, even though he supports Williams.
"The flag seems to be a separate issue right now, and we're really not sure why the flags were removed," Abbass says.
Stephenville Mayor Cec Stein says the town does not fly flags through the winter, and hasn't made a decision on flying the Maple Leaf.
"I guess when you get so frustrated, the message has to be loud and clear," said Stein.
"We've been screwed around with and I guess it's time for somebody to listen, but maybe not that far."
Williams is enjoying vocal support from people in the province, who are calling in to radio shows and writing letters.
However, Sam Connors, a former president of the provincial Federation of Municipalities, is outraged by the flag decision.
His son Neil has served in five Canadian military operations, most recently in Afghanistan.
"He was there when his buddies died under the flag, and I think it's really despicable that the premier of the province would take down the Canadian flag," said Connors.
"There's got to be another way to negotiate than that."
Newfoundland and Labrador has been pushing, along with Nova Scotia, to retain 100 per cent of offshore energy revenues without paying a penalty in clawbacks to equalization payments.
Ottawa now takes up to 70 cents of every dollar by reducing equalization payments.
Finance officials have said that Ottawa's latest offer would end the clawbacks, putting $2.5 billion to $3 billion into the provinces' coffers.
But Williams said the proposal falls short of the 100 per cent of revenues promised him by Prime Minister Paul Martin, and that the province could lose at least $1 billion of offshore revenue over the next eight years.
Williams also objected to a condition that required the province to eliminate its $700-million deficit in order to receive increased benefits from offshore revenues beyond eight years.
Nova Scotia Premier John Hamm said he will continue to negotiate with Ottawa. New talks are planned for January.
What do you think of removing canadian flags?
I'm behind my premier 100%. I believe that NF has been treated unfairly ever since we joined confederation, and I'm glad we finally have a premier that will stand up for our province.
RoyalHighlander @ Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:52 pm
I admire him too he has balls, but removing the flags wasnt the best idea in my opinion, but it DID get Ottawas attention didnt it LOL.. Hopefully they (The Newfoundlanders) will get what they want and justly deserve... good on ya
RUEZ @ Fri Dec 31, 2004 3:15 pm
I think removing the flags is disrespectfull and childish. You know if Quebec did this we'd be all over them for being anti-Canadian. I can understand the frustration but in my opinion certain things should be off limits to political feuding. Just my opinion though. 
Streaker @ Fri Dec 31, 2004 4:00 pm
Sorry Nicoleking but....your premier is a jackass!! I hope the feds don't give in to this hick, it would set a very bad precedent.
As for Newfoundland's treatment since joining confederation, well it seems the federal gov't has made its share of mistakes i.e. mismanagement of the fisheries, but overall I don't think that Newfoundland's treatment has been unfair. I really doubt that the rest of Canada has gotten rich off Newfoundland!!!! If I'm wrong, I hope you'll let me know, Nicole...
PS Is this all about that lousy deal Newfoundland negotiated with Quebec on that Churchill Falls hydro-electric scheme? My own impression is that maybe your premier is overcompensating for that....
Tman1 @ Fri Dec 31, 2004 8:49 pm
Wow, you know, if every province in this country did that, this wouldnt be a country now would it? I think it is disrespectful and boarders on treason in my own opinion. You know what happend in the U.S when that happened? Its called Civil War. Now I know Canadians are smarter then that.
smokinjoe @ Sat Jan 01, 2005 5:29 am
UofSaskatchewan UofSaskatchewan:
Wow, you know, if every province in this country did that, this wouldnt be a country now would it? I think it is disrespectful and boarders on treason in my own opinion. You know what happend in the U.S when that happened? Its called Civil War. Now I know Canadians are smarter then that.
Treason in Canada what a novel thought. I wonder what a person or province would have to do to get charged
Rev_Blair @ Sat Jan 01, 2005 7:41 am
It was a popular move in Newfoundland, which is all that Williams is concerned about. He seems to feel that he only has one shot for his province to become a have province, and this is it.
I don't like him using the flag as a bargaining chip, but it really is understandable. It's one of the few things that could keep this dispute in the national media.
norad @ Sat Jan 01, 2005 7:48 am
Quebec pulls the same kind of BS, but in a different way...what works for Quebec is the 'S' word. Then the feds give them all sorts of cash; cash that they don't even deserve. So what if what Newfoundland is doing is disrespectful? The feds promised them something during the election campaign, and Williams is going to hold them to it; even if it means taking down the Canadian flag. It's disrespectful and not very honourable to promise something to a province and not holding to that promise. Didn't Alberta get special treatment, hence, they are out of debt now? What's good for the goose is good for Gander Newfoundland!
Rev_Blair @ Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:05 am
That's true, norad. All Martin has to do is do what he said he would in the first place. It is the feds that were trying to change the rules on this too, which is why Williams had so much support from the other provinces.
The basic formula for equalisation payments was supposed to be the 5 province rule...when Newfoundland was making as much as the top five provinces, the payments would stop. They would then be required to contribute to equalisation instead of receiving from it. Until then Newfoundland would get 100% of oil revenues and the payments due to them.
Martin suddenly wanted to link equalisation payments strictly to Ontario. Forget about Alberta, which raises the five province level considerably. That is not how the formula works, it is not what was agreed on, and it showed Martin to be concerned about money than people.
AdamNF @ Sun Jan 02, 2005 8:23 am
I think i need to weight in on this.
I do not think taking the flag down is anti-canadian. its a protest against wrongdoing by the feds.
I am a Newfoundlander first and a Canadian second. Newfoundland has always been on its own and has had to work with what we have. Since confederation Newfoundlands resoruces have been given to everyone but Newfoundlanders by the federal goverment. We have tried and tried to get a fair deal out of the feds and Quebec with no luck. I do not think its a bad thing for Newfoundland to say enough is enough.
Our PM very publicly promised us somthing in the federal election, and took it back atferwards. I would have hoped all Canadian liberals would be up in arms over this but they lay silent.
I will stand by Danny as long as it takes.
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You know if Quebec did this we'd be all over them for being anti-Canadian.
This would NEVER happen in Quebec. Quebec gets whatever it wants from the feds and doesnt even have to say thank you. Oh and Quebec as a whole IS Anti-Canadian. Quebec is run by a separatist party, and has a national separatist party. They are trators at heart.
EyeBrock @ Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:05 pm
I spent three years in Labrador and in that time I got to know and admire the Newfoundlanders.
They have been pretty much shafted since Joey Smallwood (bless him) negotiated the worst deal in NFLD history with Quebec over Churchill Falls hydro which ensured NFLD got a pittance while Quebec continues to reap in billions over the sale of Newfy hydro.
The fisheries were squandered by the Federal DFO (Dept of Fisheries and Oceans) , destroying the traditional way of life for a huge percentage of Newfoundlanders.
Newfies are a proud and distinct people, (as distinct as our Québécois kin) with the oldest city in North America and a vibrant culture (I had many a pint on Water Street!), despite the hardships of the past few centuries.
I dunno if hauling the Maple Leaf down was the right thing to do, but my reaction was one of “good on yer” towards the Newfies. Far too long have you been taken for granted. I wish you a victorious outcome in the negotiations for your just rewards from Hibernia.
Rev_Blair @ Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:08 pm
I'm pretty sure they'll win this one, EyeBrock. Williams has a lot of support on this all across the country. Martin is in a minority government. All they have to do is find a way to spin it so it looks like they were both right all along.
Streaker @ Sun Jan 02, 2005 7:49 pm
AdamNF: If you really can't resist turning this into a Quebec-bashing thing at least get your facts straight!!! Presently the gov't of Quebec is not separatist!!! And if Quebecers are "traitors at heart", then you as a "Newfoundlander first" aren't much better. Personally, I think that Quebec should have renegotiated the Churchill deal as a goodwill gesture, but can also understand why some feel that Newfoundland should honour its end of the bargain, as lopsided as it turned out to be.
Of course 'tis lots of fun to see Paul Martin squirm and pay the price for having made insincere promises, but there is a larger matter at stake now:
If every provincial gov't used Danny Williams' muscle-move tactics this country wouldn't last ten minutes...
Optinum @ Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:05 am
i wish that you all will one day endurstand tthis song someday
Loco Locass - la censure pour l'echafaud.
who gonna defend newfoundland? all parlement seat in antlantic province is liberal and liberal have just turn their back to newfie. meaby they should do make a block partie like the bloc quebecois if they want to see some move from the federal.
Streaker @ Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:41 pm
...hmm....Actually, the Bloc Quebecois has done very good job of marginalising Quebec in the House of Commons. Which is probably fine as far as the R.O.C. is concerned! 
On a more serious note, though, I hate to think of what would happen if every province and territory followed Quebec's lead and established their own versions of the Bloc! Although I will always defend Quebec against mindless attacks, I have to admit that Quebec has rarely acted in good faith as a member of the federation. This is why I'm not happy to see Danny Williams take a page from Quebec's playbook-he's being a demagogue and acting in bad faith. If he is rewarded for this, other premiers will be encouraged to use similar tactics. Over time the consequences for national unity could be quite serious.
With all that said, I agree that Jackass Martin should keep his promises....