Should Canada become a member of the EU?
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Congio @ Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:27 am
Andem Andem:
Afrikaner in Europa geboren gibt es ja klar, aber ob die sich Deutsche fühlen kann ich nicht zustimmen. Aber reden wir über Deutschland oder Europa? Ist egal. Ein typische Deuscher würd nicht sagen, daß ein Schwarzer Deutscher oder Europäer ist. Die sind nicht deutschstämmig und die werden auch nie.
I agree. Every man of two identites (here African and German) chooses higher identities that join both. In this case it is Europe, or even the world entirely!
Andem Andem:
Ausländerfeindlich? Ne, ganz toll als Touristen oder auch nen paar Gastarbeiter aber was anderes wenn z.B Kreuzberg 80% fremdländisch geworden ist. Ich kann mir auch vorstellen, also in Afrika, wie schlimm es war mit Kolonialismus... und jetzt kommen die Afrikaner zurück.. wieso? Afrika ist vielmal größer als Europa.
Well, Africa is a land of non educated people. They don't know about tolerance, and understanding differences. Europeans are a lot more aware of this, but not enough yet.
Andem Andem:
Guckmal in Holland: In 20 Jahre oder so wird es nicht-niederländisch.. die menschen die schon 1000 Jahre da sind, die flüchten nach POLEN äh!? Wieso Polen? Isnn klar: Polen ist noch ein europäisches Land.
Heh,
Maybe you are exaggerating with the so called 'Muslim Invasion'.
Andem Andem:
Auf jeden Fall, Kanada ist doch was anderes.. a land of immigrants. Europa issn det nicht.
Exactly.
But it doesn't change the fact that Canada is founded on European Values. As Morocco on Arabic values, despite that 90% of Moroccans are Berbers
Or Mexico on Spanish, despite that most of Mexicans are Metis or Native.
Congio @ Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:27 am
Andem Andem:
Congio: I got a little carried away in my replies.. but didn't purposely mean to sound personal.. I was just a little ticked at the idea.
No problem
Andem Andem:
Your idea of a Canada in the European Union would be good if circustances permitted it, but I see too much of a cultural change in Canada to permit it to remain "European-based" culture.. therefore not compatible with the EU.
It is not good for now
But in 50 years 
I made this poll because I wanted to know what people would say.
Andem Andem:
Quebec on the other hand might be a closer match but even things there have changed a lot over the past 10 years.
English Canada has as 'family' the US, UK, Australia etc. Quebec has only France and some of Belgium and Switzerland. All are in the EU. Quebec will always want to integrate with Europe more than English Canada.
Today Canada can and should provide a politics of independence. But someday it will face a question of integration with the US or Europe, or both at one time.
The world is changing slowly, going in the way of integration, and we can't stop it.
Brenda Brenda:
I'm sorry, but that is bogus, imho... You push your opinion as to be the one and only truth, and insulted me. After which I insulted you and called you an ass 
I didn't mean to. I was just doing argumentation of my beliefs.
I know what I say is the truth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Civilizations
Brenda @ Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:33 am
$1:
I know what I say is the truth.
Which means you are not open to other peoples opinions.
Congio @ Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:36 am
Andem Andem:
I want Europe to always remain European.
So do I.
And Canada, Canadian.
Congio @ Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:38 am
Brenda Brenda:
$1:
I know what I say is the truth.
Which means you are not open to other peoples opinions.
I was open when someone convinced me to that
Seriously
I am open minded. Just convince me that I am wrong
Read the book, or at least to theory description. You'll understand
I did!
Brenda @ Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:49 am
I do understand, but that doesn't mean I think of it as the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me, ME (I am an Atheist, I don't believe in any god 
). It is his thesis, his idea, and that is fine. I see where he is coming from, but I think there is a lot holes in his theory. From the Wiki-link you gave me, btw, I haven't read the book, so I am not up for a discussion about it
Congio @ Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:32 pm
Read it It opened my mind
The reading of his book was a big pleasure for me. I am interested in Politics, and International Relations for a long time now, and what he was saying in the book seamed so logical for me...
It explained every international political process about which I was thinking. Ecstasy.
djakeydd @ Sat Mar 01, 2008 6:46 pm
Congio Congio:
Should Canada become a member of the EU?
You can find this here: http://dymaxionworld.blogspot.com/2006/ ... anada.html
================================================
So what do you say? Canada is culturally European...
$1:
Thursday, June 29, 2006
If Greenland, why not Canada?
Timothy Garton Ash has an amusing column in the Guardian titled "I've found a perfect new member for the EU. If only it were in Europe." It's all about a favourite fantasy of mine, Canada joining the EU.
In fact, why doesn't the European Union invite Canada to join at once? In most respects it would be a much easier fit than Ukraine, let alone Turkey. It effortlessly meets the EU's so-called Copenhagen criteria for membership, including democratic government, the rule of law, a well-regulated market economy and respect for minority rights (Canada's a world-leader on that). Canada is rich, so would be a much-needed net contributor to the European budget at a time when the EU has been taking in lots of poorer states. One of Europe's besetting weaknesses is disagreement between the British and the French, but on this the two historic rivals would instantly agree. English-speaking Canada would strengthen the Anglophone group in the EU, Quebec the Francophone.
Riiight. Because if there's one thing Canada's linguistic division has created, it's consensus and unity. Mr. Ash, there's a bridge I'd like to sell you...
Ash's column is not entirely complementary, but it is extremely thought provoking, and you should read the whole thing.
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,3295 ... 90,00.html)
There's even stuff there for Americans.
If Greenland, why not Canada?
Timothy Garton Ash has an amusing column in the Guardian titled "I've found a perfect new member for the EU. If only it were in Europe." It's all about a favourite fantasy of mine, Canada joining the EU.
In fact, why doesn't the European Union invite Canada to join at once? In most respects it would be a much easier fit than Ukraine, let alone Turkey. It effortlessly meets the EU's so-called Copenhagen criteria for membership, including democratic government, the rule of law, a well-regulated market economy and respect for minority rights (Canada's a world-leader on that). Canada is rich, so would be a much-needed net contributor to the European budget at a time when the EU has been taking in lots of poorer states. One of Europe's besetting weaknesses is disagreement between the British and the French, but on this the two historic rivals would instantly agree. English-speaking Canada would strengthen the Anglophone group in the EU, Quebec the Francophone.
Riiight. Because if there's one thing Canada's linguistic division has created, it's consensus and unity. Mr. Ash, there's a bridge I'd like to sell you...
Ash's column is not entirely complementary, but it is extremely thought provoking, and you should read the whole thing.
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,3295 ... 90,00.html)
There's even stuff there for Americans.
You can find this here: http://dymaxionworld.blogspot.com/2006/ ... anada.html
================================================
So what do you say? Canada is culturally European...
Good plan, it would stave off the NAU, so that in itself makes it worth doing.
Arctic_Menace @ Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:36 pm
$1:
Holland had a weaker version of the war than Poland,
No they did not, you fucking prick.
Arctic_Menace @ Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:02 pm
$1:
I never said Poland is da best.
In Comparison with my favourite EU state, Sweden and Germany (the west part), it definitley is worse. I told you already why: Nazism ans Communism. Holland had a weaker version of the war than Poland, Holland was speared from communism, and got money from America to 'to clean up its own shit' (the Marshall plan). It had the 'EU' for help too.
In a matter of fact it is the west's fault that Hitler invaded Poland, and that Communism was forced in central Europe. If France alone wanted to destroy Hitler, it had many chances before winter 1940, but no, the west had to wait until Germany gets prepared for war and skips the Maginot line through Benelux...
This is the truth. Don't deny it.
In Comparison with my favourite EU state, Sweden and Germany (the west part), it definitley is worse. I told you already why: Nazism ans Communism. Holland had a weaker version of the war than Poland, Holland was speared from communism, and got money from America to 'to clean up its own shit' (the Marshall plan). It had the 'EU' for help too.
In a matter of fact it is the west's fault that Hitler invaded Poland, and that Communism was forced in central Europe. If France alone wanted to destroy Hitler, it had many chances before winter 1940, but no, the west had to wait until Germany gets prepared for war and skips the Maginot line through Benelux...
This is the truth. Don't deny it.
OMFG...
$1:
Holland had a weaker version of the war than Poland,
Yeah, cause ya know, the famine the Dutch people endured during WWII was just fucking peachy...
$1:
Holland was speared from communism, and got money from America to 'to clean up its own shit' (the Marshall plan). It had the 'EU' for help too.
Guess what buddy? Your beloved Poland has also gotten help from the EU. Stop blaming all your problems on Stalin and Hitler. Poland has been (to put it nicely) "disadvantaged" due simply to its geography and history. The only time Poland was ever truly "on top of the world" was centuries ago as part of the Poland-Lithuania Alliance.
$1:
In a matter of fact it is the west's fault that Hitler invaded Poland, and that Communism was forced in central Europe.
Wait, what?! Are you daft?!
I'd actually like to hear in your words how exactly the West was responsible for Hitler invading Poland and how the West is also to blame for Communism.
$1:
If France alone wanted to destroy Hitler, it had many chances before winter 1940,
No, no and no.
Please, read up on your history before shooting your mouth off. France alone could not have destroyed Hitler. Here are just SOME of the reasons why:
- France, Like Britain and Germany and everyone else, was tired of war, did not want another one, and was still trying to recover from World War I.
- Hitler's war machine was far more combat ready than the French forces at the time
- The infamous Maginot Line was the only French line of defense because they knew just how fucking dangerous and capable Hitler's forces were. That is why the French surrendered once the Nazi's were able to circumvent the Maginot Line.
- The Vichy Regime of France respected/lived in fear of/kissed the ass of Hitler.
$1:
but no, the west had to wait until Germany gets prepared for war
Bullshit.
Germany has been preparing for war a decade in advance and had developed a brilliant strategy that played off of everyone perfectly. Europe and the West only started to get scared about war in the late 30's. And in case you forget the infamous "peace in our time" speech, you would know that the War caught many people off-guard. Hence why Hitler and Stalin decided to tolerate each other until they were truly ready to fight in the 40's.
$1:
and skips the Maginot line through Benelux...
The following is what happened with regards to the maginot Line adn the Allied Forces in the 30's...
Britain: "I say, Germany is becoming a tad petulent, aren't they?"
France: "Yes, zey are. Ow do we stop a possible threat from considering attacking us?"
Britain: "Well old chap, it's simple; build a wall of artillery cannons pointing east along your borders."
France: "Fantastique!"
*after line is built*
France: "Zere, she is done."
Britain: "Well crap."
France: "What?"
Britain: "Those sly Germans seem to have been able to get around the Maginot Line by crossing through neutral and unprotected Belgium."
France: "Merde..."
So dude, if you want to blame anyone, stop blaming the west, blame your own country for its geographic location, blame Belgium for their blasse attitude at the start of WWII, and blame Stalin.
Arctic_Menace @ Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:09 pm
$1:
I don;t give a fuck.
Yeah, you are SOOOOOOOOO open-minded like you claim... $1:
The video is right.
Uh-huh, sure.
$1:
There are always and everywhere narowminded people.
Ever stop to consider that you might be the narrowminded one? I read through those comments, and very few out of the many are positive/pro-EU...
Arctic_Menace @ Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:21 pm
$1:
Joining the EU would cut of some of America's influence in Canada.
Um, how?
Europe is a huge ocean away. America is a five hour drive...
$1:
In the EU Canada would be an equal member, or an very important one thanks to Canada's uniqueness.
What uniqueness? Every week I come across an article of some sort talking about how Canada doesn't have a identity and that we're struggling to find one...
Canada would not have a lot of influence. Belgium pulls the strings and the most powerful states are Germany, France and Britain. Canada would treated merely as a resource pool. How is that better than being treated as a resource pool by the USA?!
$1:
Joining the EU would please Quebec,
Dude, I spent the summer in Bagotville/Chicoutimi Quebec with hundreds of Seperatists from all over Quebec, adn all of them had one sentiment in common; "FUCK FRANCE". They hate France.
$1:
A union with the Americans would strengthen the separatist movement
No, it wouldn't. Have you even bothered to talk to more than one seperatist and talk about their views on America? Many seperatists are in favour of adopting the US dollar and if they were sovereign, would try to most fo their trade with the States! Joining the EU would just anger them, not pacify them.
$1:
No third option.
Yes, there is. It's called defending your fucking country asshole.
Andem @ Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:28 pm
Thank you, Arctic_Menace.
Arctic_Menace @ Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:36 pm
Andem Andem:
Congio Congio:
Voila:
Cultural
- Canada could protect it's Franco-British heritage from Americanization.
Cultural
- Canada could protect it's Franco-British heritage from Americanization.
Canada doesn't have Franco-British culture. It has a culture based on the people who came to populate the land. It's changed a lot since then.
$1:
- Quebec and all other Francophones, as I know, would be more pleased with the EU than American Union
Of course they are. Didn't you know it's cool to be anti-American? Pfft.
Furthermore, Quebec has retained a little more of their European-rooted culture than the ROC has.
$1:
- Canada and Canadians could profit more from European culture.
Canada's already happy destroying what culture they have left. Last time I was in Toronto, mainstream Canadian culture was further marginalised by places such as Chinatown and Brampton.
$1:
Politicaly
- Canada by choosing Europe would give a message: We decided on our own that we want to be with Europe, not the US
- Canada by choosing Europe would give a message: We decided on our own that we want to be with Europe, not the US
I don't think any Canadians who know much about Europe want to be part of it. There's been a separation of so long and Canadian are closer to US culture than European culture.
$1:
- Canada thanks to it's potential would be an important member of the EU
- Canada would gain European and international respect thanks to the role it could play.
- Canada would gain European and international respect thanks to the role it could play.
Other people replying to this thread have touched on this point. Canada would have no real voting power and would ultimately be giving up sovereignty to its natural resources.
$1:
Economy
- Many services on the line Canada Europe would become cheaper. Students could have free education in Europe
- Many services on the line Canada Europe would become cheaper. Students could have free education in Europe
As a German taxpayer, I don't want to subsidise Canadians who want to study for free in Germany; not anymore than I want to subsidise Poland whos government is a real pain in the arse for us. Talk about ungreatful.
$1:
- Canada could be more independent economically from the US by having a bigger trade with the US
Totally the opposite. See my point above regarding sovereignty.
$1:
- There would be more immigrants of European descent.
Canada doesn't want immigrants of European descent. They want third worlders as slave-labourers to replace the current population.
Congio Congio:
Europe is the one that can learn from Canada. Canada is the best example in the world of multiculturalism and cooperation of people of different backgrounds, faiths, and beliefs.
Canada is the absolute WORST example of multiculturalism I've ever come across in my entire life. Brasil, along with some other South American countries are probably the best, and I'd never want to live there.
Congio Congio:
To gain Polish citizenship is very hard. Harder than Canadian.
Are you serious? Harder than Polish citizenship? A Canadian passport, sadly, is one notch up from a crackerjack prize. Canada shot its self in the leg a very long time ago in that regard.
Brenda Brenda:
There is no border patrol in the West, but in the East there is. (I was checked when I drove from Czechy to Poland...).
As of sometime in December, the borders have disappeared, atleast with Germany and Poland. I'd imagine the other new states are the same way.
Congio Congio:
In a matter of fact it is the west's fault that Hitler invaded Poland, and that Communism was forced in central Europe. If France alone wanted to destroy Hitler, it had many chances before winter 1940, but no, the west had to wait until Germany gets prepared for war and skips the Maginot line through Benelux...
This has gotta be the joke of the day. France was never any match for the mighty Wehrmacht nor was their morale anywhere near the same level. Now if England had troops on French borders, history may have played out differently.
Congio Congio:
My attitude is that we are one Europe, and we share goals and fatalities. Western Europe was once selfish and didn't give shit about Central Europe. It was called WWII. East never ignored west though. And it isn't doing that now. Sure, Central Europe, will help, if it can, with the immigration problem.
Poland for one doesn't seem to keep its mouth shut. We'd love to ignore it, but we don't. How exactly does "Central Europe" help with the "immigration problem"? You've lost me on that.
Congio Congio:
Canada has so much land it could fit china's entire population. C'omon, the fact Canada is big, and awaits Colonization similar to XIX century California's is so obvious to me, that I don't see any need of further discussion on this topic.
It seems that's what Canada wants.. China's population. Most of British Columbia has been colonised to some degree yet. As Brenda and others have mentioned, Canada's land is not people-friendly. You can't have 500 million South Asians in Sub-arctic and Arctic climates. A lot of Canada's immigrants can't even deal with Montreal or Toronto let alone Iqaluit.
Congio Congio:
So do you prefer Canada to be USA 's bitch, or one of the deciding ones in the EU? Sorry to say, but with a population of 32 million in comparison with USA 's 300 million and Europe's over 400 million there is no fully independent Canada. Already today. Lets be realistic.
Switzerland is independent, completely surrounded by the EU. So is Norway.
Congio Congio:
Europe is loosing it's position in the world to China, India, Iran etc. If we don't unite there will be no money to be no money to be wasted. It'll all be in Shanghai, New Delhi and Al-Rijad. This is the truth.
Most of Europe IS united. It's called the European Union, isn't that what this thread is about?
SigPig SigPig:
First of all Greenland belongs to Denmark, so it makes sense that it belongs to the EU. However, last time I checked Canada is not part of Europe, so why join the EU? If the goal is greater trade and other economic benefits, why not just open more trade with things the way they are and put less emphasis on the US?
Greenland is not a member of the EU.
Congio Congio:
[...] As it was said in the video I posted, not by 2050 China will be a threat for us. We have 42 years still ;D
China is only a threat if we make it the threat. If we stop trusting them with Siemens prototypes (which are copied down to the screw), [the west] making trade with them digging ourselves into a hole and stop giving China the influence it doesn't deserve, it won't be a threat.
Does anybody realise the level of Chinese population which lives in total and utter poverty?
The same points above go to India.
$1:
That is running away. I am running away from Poland soon. [/qoute]
It sounds like you want to have the best of both worlds, and in the end having somebody else's hard work accomplish that. Why not stay in Poland and help your fellow countrymen build up your country? Surely Poland has a much older history and many more cultural inheritances than Canada?
Perhaps you may like to be part of rebuilding Polands infrastructure. As a German tourist, the roads and highways are a horror and downright scary.
The world is not black and white
It is not yes or no, Washington, Brussels or Beijing. It's about Canada's right to self determination. But Canada hasn't really had that for a long time anyways, the politicians and the media together make up peoples minds and Canadians were never asked if they wanted 300,000 third world immigrants per year nor would they probably ever be asked about a North American union.
It sounds like you want to have the best of both worlds, and in the end having somebody else's hard work accomplish that. Why not stay in Poland and help your fellow countrymen build up your country? Surely Poland has a much older history and many more cultural inheritances than Canada?
Perhaps you may like to be part of rebuilding Polands infrastructure. As a German tourist, the roads and highways are a horror and downright scary.
The world is not black and white
It is not yes or no, Washington, Brussels or Beijing. It's about Canada's right to self determination. But Canada hasn't really had that for a long time anyways, the politicians and the media together make up peoples minds and Canadians were never asked if they wanted 300,000 third world immigrants per year nor would they probably ever be asked about a North American union.
Arctic_Menace @ Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:47 pm
$1:
Europe and Canada have a lot in common:
- Ideology (Democracy)
- Religion (Christianity)
- Languages (English and French)
- Way of life (Individualism and Freedoms)
- Background (History, Ethnic roots etc.)
- More
- Ideology (Democracy)
- Religion (Christianity)
- Languages (English and French)
- Way of life (Individualism and Freedoms)
- Background (History, Ethnic roots etc.)
- More
Hey, guess what? Everything you listed there could be applied to what Canada and America have in common...
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