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It doesn't though.

All the studies showing a decrease in crime/violence or increase in said connected to firearm laws are simply bad statistics and can easily be defeated.

vastly more guns and far less gun laws and control in the states yet Canada is lower in crime on almost every measureable sense.

In the UK violent crime is often higher but actual murders are lower suggesting a different picture.

Threat of armed citzens does not deter criminals in the least and at worst it makes them adopt a massively violent first strike approach.

It doesn't deter criminals from shooting at fully trained and armed police. They just get automatic weapons.

It doesn't stop crimes of passion, convience, or desperation and its not a viable plan for combatting crime. I doubt anybody is actually putting forth the theory that in order to fight crime they are making guns madatory.

Responsible people should be allowed to own guns (and use drugs for that matter) but gun ownership won't ever stop crime.

   

Ooops, you're right...what I meant to say is that gun control clearly results in less violence. But I am willing to suffer the increased violence and increased personal risk for the increased freedom.

That's actually a new position for me. I used to like gun control. But I've changed my mind. Maybe because gun crime used to be somewhat of a rarirty in Canada, but now every gangabnager has a gun. Of maybe it's becasue the gun registry was such a gargantuan goatfuck. Or maybe I couldn't reconcile my position on firearms wiht my libertarian ideals in other areas. Who knows. Cheers.

   

It results in no change either way. To many other factors at play and both sides cite case studies that "prove their point".

Canada has harsher gun control and far more liberal punishment then the US yet we have lower crime across the board. Why?

Other factors, thats why.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_m ... per-capita

This is a good site for all crime comparison.

Like you I take the freedom angle for firearm ownership. If a responsible citizen wants to own a gun then its his right.

I find the freedom angle is the key to eliminating gun bans from Canadian society.

   

CommanderSock

If i was a lefty idiot I would call you a liar. However, I am much better mannered and more enlightened. That is a lie and you are perhaps unaware.

No one really knows Japan's crime rate or any details. Up to 1989, it was so bad that from 1990 (18 years ago) Japan has not released any crime statistics.
Sarah Brady Foundation and Gun Control Inc have released studies citing Japanese statistics but have been cited for fraud by the State of Texas for that.

   

Canada beats the US for crime and we have less guns and more gun control.

In Canada the west far outplays the east (including "crime-ridden T.O." and the west is the cradle of gun loving society.

It works both ways.

   

Derby

Kennesaw County, Georgia set the world affairs, in 1992, when they brought in the famous "Kennesaw County Ordinance" requiring every home, dwelling house and place of business to maintain a firearm and ammunition. The handwringers went ballistic and set about having it struck down----a lengthly process but before getting very far abandoned that cause because all the things they and their BS studies claimed would happen didn't. Instead confrontational crime virtually disappeared.
Now why can't the CO2 AGW BS disappear after a decade of cooler weather?

Bullshit!!! Either you are lying through your teeth or have been watching too much TV.

Derby

You just made that up. Research and interviews with criminals proves you wrong.
Criminals don't bring knives to gun fights and in fact, avoid gun fights.

Zipperfish


My sympathy...it is obvious that you have since been a victim or a friend or family member...or a close call. Generally the change of heart results from being robbed or mugged. Gun control means "use two hands".

   

It can also mean "criminals may not possess one", or "menatlly unstable people cannot".

Gun control just means the gov't has some control over them.

All NRA supporters support some form of gun control or else they wouldn't mind criminals having them, or children, or smart monkeys for that matter.

Guns can be controlled and regulated through FACS or something similiar and be treated like a drivers license.

Don't confuse gun control with gun bans.

When guns are legal so should drugs be. One cannot be legal without the other as both are part and parcel to freedom.

   

DerbyX

Gee I thought you could do better than that.....but flogging a dead horse is a LIBRANO trait. I noticed you avoided that little trap of citing non-existant Japanese stats. An inconvenient truth....leaving you with only urban myths and emotional arguments.

   

I agree, let's treat them the same. In most cases a gun can't be legally used against a person. Let's make drugs follow the same rules.

   

No, you just think that because I didn't waste time on you, your argument was sound. A logical fallacy.

You can try and excuse Japan's crime stats or anybodiy else only when it suits your argument but why then do those arguments fail when you compare the US and Canada, 2 countries which are the best legitimate comparison?

Despite our lax gun laws and lax justice system we have far less crime.

Why is that? If the theory that lenient sentences coupled with strict gun control equates to greater crime then we should be heads and shoulders above the US.

We aren't. Hell, even the west, which tries to emulate the US more has more crime then the east.

Torpedoes your theories.

   

OK. Its far more difficult to kill another person with drugs. You can't "shoot up" a room with drugs unless they are all willing.

If you favour freedom for one why not both?

Lets start putting the freedom of choice back in the hands of the citizens.

   

Well the freedom for someone to shoot up some heroin will usually affect more people than just the junkie. If I own a gun and because I follow the laws concerning storage and use of that gun no one will be affected by that gun, save some unlucky moose.

   

OK. except for a few points.

1) Your gun may fall into the wrong hands.

2) Gambling and alcohol are terribly destructive by the same margin and the same reasons yet they are legal.

3) Perscription drugs are legal and those drugs are freely accesible to the wealthy with little or no legal consequences. Thats a double standard.

4) The same argument can be made to ban junk food. alcohol, etc.

I understand the problems that can arise. My job is to deal with it not to judge.

Gun bans don't work because they can't be implemented on a large scale which gun ban proponents believe can happen.

"if they didn't have the gun" is absolutely true but just not feasible without giving up a whole lot of other rights.

I think the same goes for drugs although I am open to differentiating between natural drugs and highly processed drugs.

(magic mushrooms are legal in the UK so long as you pick them and eat them unaltered. Even drying them out makes them a controlled substance.

We are not winning the so-called war on drugs.

A different tactic is needed.

   

Always fear a government or political party which fears the citizens.

Despite being validated only by emotional arguments and urban mytyhs, gun control has only one purpose.........to disarm the people.

"The cruelest thing they ever did was deny the people arms."
Mahatma Ghandi

   

Actually prostitution is legal in Canada. Its the solicitation of it thats illegal. Man, you're partisanship is really tiring.....Don't you have anything worth to contribute than spewing antiliberal rhetoric all the time? Seriously, its really hard to have a rational argument with anybody on this forum when they throw common sense out the window, intolerance towards other people's beliefs and common courtesy. Its ironic considering its based on their parties beliefs and principles.

   

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