This is the terminus of Tory radicalism
OnTheIce @ Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:52 am
Gunnair Gunnair:
It is a fail, utterly. Liberals, Conservatives, NDP, and Greens all like to tell me what my values should be and that if I don't support their version, I am somehow less of a Canadian. The Liberals get dumped on more because of what Boots alluded to - egotism. The CPC will follow along soon enough as will the NDP, and in fact, I foresee the NDP becoming more annoying as they push themselves forward as the last and best bulwark against the evils of Harper.
The Liberals get dumped on because it's a major part of who they are and what they preach. It was a main point on the campaigns.
You don't see the NDP saying "Canadian Values are NDP Values", many Liberal candidates had this all over their election literature, websites and said during debates.
Every party tries to preach "values", but the Liberal Party are the only ones who are telling us that only their values are truly Canadian.
FieryVulpine @ Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:35 pm
Thanos Thanos:
I'd compare the Trudeau Liberals and their successors more to the Borg from Star Trek than to a disease. As Locutus once asked, "why do you resist us? we only seek to bring you to perfection."
As a Trekkie, you just make my day.
![[B-o]](./images/smilies/drinkup.gif "Drink up")
bootlegga @ Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:32 pm
andyt andyt:
I think your interpretation of Unsound might be too extreme. I would bet he'd agree that there's a conservative disease, or sense that they are the true Canadians, as well. I don't think he's saying all Liberals or liberals have that disease, just the Kool Aid drinkers. I bet in his last paragraph he was addressing the right as much as the middle.
Guess I should let him speak for himself, but I didn't read what he wrote with the same interpretation as he did.
Guess I should let him speak for himself, but I didn't read what he wrote with the same interpretation as he did.
It's possible, and I was honestly surprised to hear Unsound post it, as I don't think he's ever said anything I disagree with so strongly. Who knows, perhaps his first statement was hyperbole and he was playing devil's advocate. But without emoticons or further clarification, it's hard to know. Either way, that first statement is over the top, even for a thread as charged as this one.
bootlegga @ Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:33 pm
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
bootlegga bootlegga:
Sorry, Unsound, but when you post tripe like that, you're no better than the partisan hacks you deride.
To equate Liberalism (or any political viewpoint IMHO) with a disease is basically an attempt at demonizing them and I think, pretty vile. It not only demeans people with very real diseases, but also makes a mockery of the point you are trying to make, especially when you later talk about not thinking people who disagree with are are actually evil. IMO when you equate a person's political view with disease, it sounds to me like you ARE calling them evil.
There is no "Liberal disease" in Canada any more than there is a "Conservative Disease". Although, if one was to base disease based on your definition here, conservatives are just as guilty of pushing their own narrow vision of Canada - at least from the POV of those left of centre.
Fail, serious fail.
I don't think it's a fail at all, here's why:
During the past few elections, we've been reminded by Liberals all over Canada and the Liberal Party that Canada was "built on Liberal values".
"Canadian values are Liberal values" and insinuating those who support other parties don't support Canadian values; or values in general.
To be Canadian is to be Liberal all others don't support the betterment of this Country.
It is a fail, and a massive one at that. Is it egotism to say that Liberal (big L) values are synonomous with Canadian values - most definitely. Is it a disease? No fricking way.
I may disagree with you vehemently on many issues, but I'd never once say you and your POV are a disease.
PluggyRug @ Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:37 pm
bootlegga bootlegga:
It is a fail, and a massive one at that. Is it egotism to say that Liberal (big L) values are synonomous with Canadian values - most definitely. Is it a disease? No fricking way.
I may disagree with you vehemently on many issues, but I'd never once say you and your POV are a disease.
I may disagree with you vehemently on many issues, but I'd never once say you and your POV are a disease.
Could be an airborne virus. Every time I hear it it makes me sick.
CDN_PATRIOT @ Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:48 pm
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
The Liberals get dumped on because it's a major part of who they are and what they preach. It was a main point on the campaigns.
You don't see the NDP saying "Canadian Values are NDP Values", many Liberal candidates had this all over their election literature, websites and said during debates.
Every party tries to preach "values", but the Liberal Party are the only ones who are telling us that only their values are truly Canadian.
Indeed. And one of the main reasons they got creamed in the last election was the fact the Ignatieff publicly said that, "The Liberal party is the natural party to govern Canada." and "The people know that they have to vote for a Liberal government to have this country run properly."
As I have worked on many a campaign (Liberal and Conservative) over the years, I had noticed that once you start telling the electorate who to vote for, they get a wee bit annoyed an tend to go the opposite way.
The fact of the matter is, the Liberals doomed themselves.
-J.
Gunnair @ Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:55 pm
CDN_PATRIOT CDN_PATRIOT:
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
The Liberals get dumped on because it's a major part of who they are and what they preach. It was a main point on the campaigns.
You don't see the NDP saying "Canadian Values are NDP Values", many Liberal candidates had this all over their election literature, websites and said during debates.
Every party tries to preach "values", but the Liberal Party are the only ones who are telling us that only their values are truly Canadian.
Indeed. And one of the main reasons they got creamed in the last election was the fact the Ignatieff publicly said that, "The Liberal party is the natural party to govern Canada." and "The people know that they have to vote for a Liberal government to have this country run properly."
As I have worked on many a campaign (Liberal and Conservative) over the years, I had noticed that once you start telling the electorate who to vote for, they get a wee bit annoyed an tend to go the opposite way.
The fact of the matter is, the Liberals doomed themselves.
-J.
Bullshit. The Liberals got creamed because they had a leader that Canadians did not like, and a platform that was poorly laid out and aimless, not because the insinuated that they were the natural governing party. Or, shall we say, the CPC was finally given a majority because the Canadian public was comfortable enough with what it had seen for the last few years to see what a majority would look like as well as the simple fact that there was no real alternative.
Make no mistake, if the Liberals elect a very popular leader and develop even a moderately decent platform, the CPC goes back to official opposition.
Thanos @ Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:00 pm
FieryVulpine FieryVulpine:
Thanos Thanos:
I'd compare the Trudeau Liberals and their successors more to the Borg from Star Trek than to a disease. As Locutus once asked, "why do you resist us? we only seek to bring you to perfection."
As a Trekkie, you just make my day.
It's the universal Law Of The Four S's, as I call it. All of human life eventually begins to resemble scenes from Star Trek, Seinfeld, Simpsons, and South Park.
andyt @ Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:06 pm
bootlegga bootlegga:
It is a fail, and a massive one at that. Is it egotism to say that Liberal (big L) values are synonomous with Canadian values - most definitely. Is it a disease? No fricking way.
I may disagree with you vehemently on many issues, but I'd never once say you and your POV are a disease.
I think egotism is a kind of disease or can be.
But, I don't think Unsound was using disease to say anybody is sick. He was using it the way it's used in Dutch disease for instance, or in all kinds of other metaphors. I'm not sure why you react so strongly to the term disease, it's pretty common usage and doesn't strike me as extreme at all. Not compared to some of the other stuff that gets hurled around here. And he wasn't saying this disease was limited to Liberals - I'm sure he'd agree that rabid CPC'r or Dippers or what have you can all have the same disease - my way is the right way.
OnTheIce @ Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:25 pm
bootlegga bootlegga:
It is a fail, and a massive one at that. Is it egotism to say that Liberal (big L) values are synonomous with Canadian values - most definitely. Is it a disease? No fricking way.
I may disagree with you vehemently on many issues, but I'd never once say you and your POV are a disease.
Call it what you want....egotism, arrogance, disease, sickness, it all means that the party is getting too smug, too comfortable and too arrogant; hence the reason parties change people to bring upon a change of culture. The Liberal party was consumed with their self-proclaimed awesomeness.
Even now, a Liberal supporter like yourself, is taking strong offence to someone criticizing the party you support on issues that are very real.
Liberals and their supporters strongly believe they deserve to be the party to govern. They also believe that their values are most closely reflective of Canadians.
When Liberals lose, we've often seen the "I've been wronged" card played. They blame the other parties, candidates...there's no way they lose fair and square; it was all due to dirty tactics from others.
It's a culture problem....a 'sickness' within the party that has to change. Put the egos aside and speak to Canadians on a one-to-one level, don't talk down to them.
Something similar could be said about a certain amount of Conservatives who support controversial issues. You could call them a "disease" or "cancer" within the party and that would be completely true.
Unsound @ Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:52 pm
Wow! Just... wow!
I'll admit disease could be taken as being a bit too harsh. And certainly could be taken as demonizing. Wasn't really meant that way. Certainly not as applied to people. To the Liberal party... in a way.
As a few people have said, the Liberal party and some of their most ardent supporters do seem to have the view that their way is the Canadian way. That people who disagree with them are trying to destroy Canada. That's atleast as offensive to those of us who disagree with them as anyting I said.
I don't mean to say that liberals are a disease, not do I mean to say that the Liberal party is a disease. What I meant was that this sense of being the only ones who know what is good for Canada is a disease that seems to afflict the Liberal party more than the others. Do the other parties have thos people as well...? Of course. Some of them are here. But you rarely if ever hear the kind of language from the other parties themselves that you hear from the liberal party. And you rarely hear the kind of crap Eureka spews from from the other parties supporters.
If any of the many intelligent reasoned liberal supporters we have here were offended by my use of the word disease, I apologize, but I really can't be sorry for the sentiment behind it.
i think perhaps the best, least long winded, way to explain what I see as the "Liberal disease" is that too many in the part can't see the difference between what's good for the Liberals, and what's good for Canada. Too many years as the natural governing party has led them to think that that; truth rather than a nickname.
Just for the sake of balance I should note I feel much the same way about the provinical PC party in alberta. And I have no doubts that it wouldn't take too much longer for the conservatives in Ottawa to start aquiring the same symptoms.
andyt @ Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:55 pm
Well, I've been trying to defend you, but that last sentence I disagree with. They already have their own version of the disease, and some had it way before they were ever elected. It's a cultural clash, and we've seen the CPC can be just as vicious and devious to attain power (because they are the right ones) than anybody else. The Dippers have their own version of it too.
When Harper called Canada a second rate socialist country, and that his job was to set it on the right path - is that any less egotistic than anything the Liberals come up with. That's the only thing I can fault in your statement, that you think it only applies to Liberals.
PimpBrewski123 @ Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:57 pm
Zipperfish Zipperfish:
PimpBrewski123 PimpBrewski123:
Tory Radicalism - huh, say what !
There were no deep cuts, something to please the leftist media. There should have been more cuts in the CBC at least, amongst anything else.
There were no deep cuts, something to please the leftist media. There should have been more cuts in the CBC at least, amongst anything else.
Meh, this forum is only a place to rant a bit.
Although, you have to admit that, for the most part, the media has had it against Harper ever since his 1st minority Govt. The fact that this budget hasn't been criticised much says a lot.
Unsound @ Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:29 pm
andyt andyt:
That's the only thing I can fault in your statement, that you think it only applies to Liberals.
You've misunderstood me, I think. I don't think it's just the Liberals, I just think they'r ethe worst for it. When Justin Trudeau can muse aloud that if canadian values change to the point where they aren't Liberal values anymore he might think about making Quebec a seperate country...
Bruce_E_T @ Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:10 pm
Unsound Unsound:
When Justin Trudeau can muse aloud that if canadian values change to the point where they aren't Liberal values anymore he might think about making Quebec a seperate country...
That is more than a touch delusional is it not? Little Justin is in the drivers seat?