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Like I said before, equality comes with no strings attached..

Something which you can't seem to grasp.

Oh I don't know about that.. we enjoy the humour the right wing provides with their statements that are laced with ironic attempts that continually fail to show some common sense.

Kind of like your statement above.

   

Equality for everyone is a good thing. That is why we have programs which target hiring for minorities, women and people with disabilities.

These programs exist because the people who do the hiring can not be trusted to hire the most qualified people.

And because of this "oversight" by well meaning white folks in the past our workplaces are full of white folks who tend to hire people who are like them.

If you are arguing for "equality" which continues to support the status quo, then you are not fighting for equality at all.

You are fighting to maintain your white-bread advantage, which is NOT equality.

3 questions you have failed to answer:

1) Are you against hiring minorities and women?

2) Are you scared of competing for positions with minorities and women?

3) Don't you think if people had always hired fairly this issue would not exist?



Info on workplace equity which bigots ignore because it challanges the status quo

   

Why are all the sources from town hall? Not an attack just curious.

Class war is the art of keeping one sect over a barrel for the profit of another. It is simple survival of the fittest. That is natures highest law. Are you saying that it simply doesn't exist or that there is no need for it to be warded against? I find the track record of any class, caste or race that has power and control over another has consistently used such power to it's advantage. Only when the group has a consensus of common good are such adversarial conditions neutralized.

   

I've been sitting back watching this thread develop because I wanted the left to prove my point for me.

Donnie, Avro, Freaker, congratulations guys. You did it.

As I said at the start, the left don't provide any real answers, just rhetoric, platitiudes and class warfare. When someone disagrees with them, they just decry that person as a racist, or a bigot.

I knew you guys would do that with this post, but I wanted to give you a chance to prove me wrong.

Donnie, you are so far removed from reality, I don't know where to begin. There was a Saturday Night Live skit in the 80's by Eddie Murphy that sums up your view of the world perfectly. He, a black man, wanted to see what the world was like if he were white. So he put on white make up and everything changed. He'd get on a bus, and suddenly, now that he was white, all the white people would start talking to him, they'd break out champagne and a party would erupt. The same thing happened in malls, shops, etc. Except when there were minorities around.

I honestly think you see the world like that. You think there's this big conspiracy out there by us to keep everyone else down. That's just delusional.

This may come as a shock to you, but if an immigrant comes to Canada with limited language skills, few family-social supports, and a restricted knowledge of his adopted nation's culture, then it stands to reason that that person is unlikely to get a job as the Chief Executive Officer of the Royal Bank. That's not the result of "White Racism", it's just reality. If I moved abroad, I wouldn't expect to get a great job either.

I think you'll find that most immigrant groups tend to do quite well within a generation of being in Canada. Look at the Chinese or East Indian communities. They've been very successful.

As for Natives, they haven't done quite so well as a group, and that's unfortunate. But those are due to social problems within their own communities. Alcoholism, isolation, and even corruption and nepotism at the band administraton level. It doesn't help that every politician whose ever tried to take action to actually address those issues is labelled a racist for challenging the status quo either.

Oh well, never mind Donnie, I guess you can always blame the Jews, like some of this country's Native "Leaders" are doing these days.

As for women, get over it. Militant Feminism is dying everywhere except for in Women's Studies Departments at Universities because girls are realizing they have every opportunity the boys do in today's world. There is still a bit of a gap in wages, true, but even a cursory examination of the facts reveals that women who don't have children and remain in the labour force do not only as well as men, but actually better. If your going to leave your career for a few years to have babies, you have to expect that to negatively affect your career prospects. Again, that's just reality.


And Rev, I think the contributors to this thread are very aware of the layout of the political spectrum. In my view, the Liberals are left leaning, albeit in a manipulative, cynical way. I find the Tories pretty centrist. But that's irrelevant. The point is that one's view of the political spectrum tends to be influenced by their political beliefs. So I can understand that to a left wing zealot, the NDP doesn't seem socialist enough, while the Tories seem like fascists. I disagree with that view, but I understand you hold it honestly. Why can't you guys reciprocate that with us?

As usual, the left can't debate anything. They just get angry and shrill. They call right wingers names, label us as racist while making racist comments about white people, all the while missing the irony of their position.

   

I think I hear you.

This is discrimination. Because Lily wants a fair shot at a good job no matter if she is a child bearer or not.



I'm sorry Lily, but Lawndart says you can expect not to earn what he earns if you decide to have children. (Is this what you are saying Lawndart??)

So women are to take a lower roll and be less employable in the workplace because they were not born as men?

Some people might agree that that is "equality". Not me.

   

Here are the questions you have failed to answer.



I hear your reverse-racism rhetoric, but it doesn't jive because the facts are that the workplace does not reflect the population.

Diversity programs, equity programs, affirmative action programs are designed to give everyone an equal shot at employment opportunities.

What you are arguing for is maintaining the status quo, where the white boys club owns the ball and no one else can play unless they you say so.

Let everyone play and you'll find us red-skinned folks can play just as well as anyone else. (which is exactly what I think you are scared of)

   

Get informed and read some facts about equity

   

And that is a good point.

And even today our First Nations war heroes who fought for Canada are denied the same pensions that their white brothers got.



So what is it then? Our people fought and died just like many white boys. Why is it in 2005 our old dieing First Nations Vets are either forced to take compensation that is a fraction of what your white grandfathers got, or die with nothing.

You military folks out there should be demanding equality for all of the people who fought before you. It is a shame.

It is 2005 isn't it?

   

Actually, I think Lawndart may have made a valid observation there. Anyone who takes a sabatical from work (for any reason, not just to have children) is going to be further behind in their careers. And where in Lawndart's post did he say that women are less employable and have lesser roles in the workplace because they're not men? In fact, I believe he says



As a young woman, I don't want to be treated differently than my male counterparts. To expect special treatment because I can bear children goes against everything I believe in. After all, if I make it to the big leagues, I want it to be because I've worked hard and proved I'm capable of greatness, not because I'm female. If it takes me longer to get there because I choose to have children along the way, fine, that's my choice. My mom (and countless other feminists) fought hard for my oppertunity to compete fairly for any job I wanted. I'm not going to ruin that by compaining about "equality" every time life doesn't go my way.

I'm not saying agree with everything Lawndart's ever posted (actually, I'm sure we'd disagree on most issues) but he's on to something here. To automaticly dismiss his points as invalid because you dissagree with his veiwpoint is, well, closeminded.

See, Lawndart? Not everyone on the left is angry and shrill.

   

If you accept that you can not achieve the same stature as a man (who has no possibility of giving birth) because you choose to have children then perhaps you are selling yourself short.

And those choices are yours to make.

But wouldn't you rather have the opportunity to achieve the same level of success in the workplace as a man and have children?

It would seem to me that that would be an ideal scenario, however I am not a women. It’s too bad that your mom and countless other women fought for rights that you don't even want.

I guess my version of equality and other people's versions of equality are different.

   

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