Your Gun Control Program At Work
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CAGERATTLER @ Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:06 pm
Madman Madman:
all goog in la la land, but in baddie land where they are ALL criminals, they dont give a shit, furthur more the "fines" the governmant hands out are a joke(i hope we agree on this) i am all for punishing the criminals, not the legal owners
no one would stop speeding if the fine was .02$ to 100$ and all anybody would hand out was a 25 cent fine, it is still profitable for the thugs to have guns, the sentances being handed out are too small when infact the laws would allow a very long time behind bars
another thing is i would like to know howmany of the gun deaths in canada are thugs shooting thugs, ie people i, and many others really could care less about, i would guess it is a significant protion
banned guns means none of the criminals will turn them in, you just made their toy even more valuable
using the analogy of a complacent society and active criminals is a weak connection thugs dont care about your laws, your rights or you for that matter, and more laws means nothing to them
furthure to that, all these charges you listed at the begining , plus allot more, ie
no ATT
loaded firearm
not trigger locked
not in a locked container
conclealed firearms
.........
would no longer be around if handguns were banned, making it less illegal for them to have one, as i said before problem is judical systems is not using the teeth is has
anyfurther rhetoric i am not going to bother responding to, you are not making sense, if you can come up with anything that does, i may then
no one would stop speeding if the fine was .02$ to 100$ and all anybody would hand out was a 25 cent fine, it is still profitable for the thugs to have guns, the sentances being handed out are too small when infact the laws would allow a very long time behind bars
another thing is i would like to know howmany of the gun deaths in canada are thugs shooting thugs, ie people i, and many others really could care less about, i would guess it is a significant protion
banned guns means none of the criminals will turn them in, you just made their toy even more valuable
using the analogy of a complacent society and active criminals is a weak connection thugs dont care about your laws, your rights or you for that matter, and more laws means nothing to them
furthure to that, all these charges you listed at the begining , plus allot more, ie
no ATT
loaded firearm
not trigger locked
not in a locked container
conclealed firearms
.........
would no longer be around if handguns were banned, making it less illegal for them to have one, as i said before problem is judical systems is not using the teeth is has
anyfurther rhetoric i am not going to bother responding to, you are not making sense, if you can come up with anything that does, i may then
Well we do seem to agree on one thing enforcing the laws!!! If you have no gun control laws YOU HAVE NO LAWS TO ENFORCE!!!!
Let me get a clearer picture of exactly where you stand!
Are you against there be gun laws or do you support gun laws?
Do you think anybody should be allowed to walk in off the street in this country and buy a gun no questions asked!
CAGERATTLER @ Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:38 pm
Here madman read this! It is taken from the U.K.'s own government stats!
This goes against what you were claiming you said gun crime was up since the ban in the U.K.!
I asked you to post the source for your info but you've not done it as of yet!!!
The only thing I could find was newspaper articles saying gun crime was up in the U.K.!
Newspaper articles tend to not be real truthful sometimes and all they are doing is exposing the feelings and opinions of the author!
This report below is newer than the article you quoted from this one is for 2005!
Here read this:::
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-vict ... gun-crime/
A snapshot of gun crime
Contrary to public perception, the overall level of gun crime in the UK is very low – less than 0.5%* of all crime recorded by the police.
Facts & figures
In the year ending 31 March 2005 provisional figures show a:
16% reduction in the use of handguns
9% reduction in robberies involving firearms
6% reduction in serious injuries from firearms offences
Madman @ Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:21 pm
http://www.murderuk.com/misc/stats.htm , note increases firearms crime
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm
http://www.csdp.org/research/hosb1203.pdf
note violent crime doubled from 97 to 98
http://www.liberty-page.com/issues/fire ... ml#britain
more recent increase
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1741336.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/uk_news/eng ... 195908.stm
good overview from many countries
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/uk_news/eng ... 195908.stm
Tricks @ Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:23 pm
Sorry Cagey, normally I don't bring out this link. But you are very stubborn.
Fraser Institute disagrees with you biatch!
Madman @ Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:37 pm
you are a moron, you cannot hold a debate without twisting ones words, i said i am for the system in place since the 30's, it was working, and i am all for enforcing the laws that were with is, i am not for additional laws against legal owners because the legal system will not enforce the current laws, why should i or anyone else trust good ole politians to come up with new good laws when they have no intentions of making sure they or the ones before them are enforced
too bad those stats have no reference to what year they are against, take a look at 1997 too 1998 when violent crime doubles in one year
has gun crime gun down in canada since bill c-68 or c-17, the trend did not change at all, although firearm deaths are down in total, this is mostly due to a drop in sucide via firearms, not violent crimes
guns are easy to get illeagally, and will be as long as there is demand, so address why these kids want them, and then you will see results
also look at knive assults in UK, it is starting to explode there, as in other places where guns were banned
besides here in canada unless they stop illeagal guns coming in from the states the # on the streets will nver be effected
Madman @ Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:42 pm
comes down to this really, hippies like him dont run the country, the registry will be on the chopping block very soon by the government, the legal gun community need to keep their good standing in their comminities as they have now, and help make sure illegal gun "ownwers" are properly prosecuted, and bullshit laws are repealled, and ones that have been on the books for decades are enforced
CAGERATTLER @ Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:46 pm
Madman Madman:
you are a moron, you cannot hold a debate without twisting ones words, i said i am for the system in place since the 30's, it was working, and i am all for enforcing the laws that were with is, i am not for additional laws against legal owners because the legal system will not enforce the current laws, why should i or anyone else trust good ole politians to come up with new good laws when they have no intentions of making sure they or the ones before them are enforced
too bad those stats have no reference to what year they are against, take a look at 1997 too 1998 when violent crime doubles in one year
has gun crime gun down in canada since bill c-68 or c-17, the trend did not change at all, although firearm deaths are down in total, this is mostly due to a drop in sucide via firearms, not violent crimes
guns are easy to get illeagally, and will be as long as there is demand, so address why these kids want them, and then you will see results
also look at knive assults in UK, it is starting to explode there, as in other places where guns were banned
besides here in canada unless they stop illeagal guns coming in from the states the # on the streets will nver be effected
too bad those stats have no reference to what year they are against, take a look at 1997 too 1998 when violent crime doubles in one year
has gun crime gun down in canada since bill c-68 or c-17, the trend did not change at all, although firearm deaths are down in total, this is mostly due to a drop in sucide via firearms, not violent crimes
guns are easy to get illeagally, and will be as long as there is demand, so address why these kids want them, and then you will see results
also look at knive assults in UK, it is starting to explode there, as in other places where guns were banned
besides here in canada unless they stop illeagal guns coming in from the states the # on the streets will nver be effected
The stats I posted were for last year ending March 2005!
Did you not bother to read my source? It's right there!
Well you're another one who cannot debate without the name calling!
The old system was flawed! For example it was a paper system it operated from 9 to 5 five days a week. GET INTO THE 20TH CENTURY!
We now have computers which are available to the cops 24/7! The cops want the government to keep the system the way it is!
Can you explain why?
How about explaining why you think registering handguns work but registering long guns doesn't?
hwacker @ Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:52 pm
$1:
How about explaining why you think registering handguns work but registering long guns doesn't?
Because naive boy drug dealers don't want to keep a 30-30 in their jeans, and duck hunters aren't shooting up Jamestown.
PluggyRug @ Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:56 pm
CAGERATTLER CAGERATTLER:
Madman Madman:
you are a moron, you cannot hold a debate without twisting ones words, i said i am for the system in place since the 30's, it was working, and i am all for enforcing the laws that were with is, i am not for additional laws against legal owners because the legal system will not enforce the current laws, why should i or anyone else trust good ole politians to come up with new good laws when they have no intentions of making sure they or the ones before them are enforced
too bad those stats have no reference to what year they are against, take a look at 1997 too 1998 when violent crime doubles in one year
has gun crime gun down in canada since bill c-68 or c-17, the trend did not change at all, although firearm deaths are down in total, this is mostly due to a drop in sucide via firearms, not violent crimes
guns are easy to get illeagally, and will be as long as there is demand, so address why these kids want them, and then you will see results
also look at knive assults in UK, it is starting to explode there, as in other places where guns were banned
besides here in canada unless they stop illeagal guns coming in from the states the # on the streets will nver be effected
too bad those stats have no reference to what year they are against, take a look at 1997 too 1998 when violent crime doubles in one year
has gun crime gun down in canada since bill c-68 or c-17, the trend did not change at all, although firearm deaths are down in total, this is mostly due to a drop in sucide via firearms, not violent crimes
guns are easy to get illeagally, and will be as long as there is demand, so address why these kids want them, and then you will see results
also look at knive assults in UK, it is starting to explode there, as in other places where guns were banned
besides here in canada unless they stop illeagal guns coming in from the states the # on the streets will nver be effected
The stats I posted were for last year ending March 2005!
Did you not bother to read my source? It's right there!
Well you're another one who cannot debate without the name calling!
The old system was flawed! For example it was a paper system it operated from 9 to 5 five days a week. GET INTO THE 20TH CENTURY!
We now have computers which are available to the cops 24/7! The cops want the government to keep the system the way it is!
Can you explain why?
How about explaining why you think registering handguns work but registering long guns doesn't?
I don't want to conceal my 10g trap gun, its for clays.
Why don't you come to my gun club one day, you can shout PULL
Madman @ Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:58 pm
i read the 2005 thing, but guess what for a percent change, you need a reference, what yesterday, last year?, 2004 saw a 35% increase for uk in violent crime, as hwaker said, rifles are not concealable, and making them short enough to makes them prohibited
the registry computers are unreliable, try asking some people in law enforcment, secondly, it the guys with guns you do not know about that is the problem
also allot of police deparment would rather have the $$ being wasted on the registry for law enforment
CAGERATTLER @ Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:04 pm
Madman Madman:
http://www.murderuk.com/misc/stats.htm , note increases firearms crime
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm
http://www.csdp.org/research/hosb1203.pdf
note violent crime doubled from 97 to 98
http://www.liberty-page.com/issues/fire ... ml#britain
more recent increase
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1741336.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/uk_news/eng ... 195908.stm
good overview from many countries
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/uk_news/eng ... 195908.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm
http://www.csdp.org/research/hosb1203.pdf
note violent crime doubled from 97 to 98
http://www.liberty-page.com/issues/fire ... ml#britain
more recent increase
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1741336.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/uk_news/eng ... 195908.stm
good overview from many countries
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/uk_news/eng ... 195908.stm
Let me address each one of your sources!!!
RE::http://www.murderuk.com/misc/stats.htm
This link above is some gun toters own web site LIKE I'm suppose to believe those stats?
RE::http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm
I told you about newspaper articles tend to express the feelings of the author!!! So you go post it again!
RE::http://www.csdp.org/research/hosb1203.pdf
This one you should go actually read again because it goes against what your saying.The one crime rate that rose was violent crime it says absolutely nothing about gun crimes rising!
Do you expect gun controls to rid us of all crimes? Come on!
RE::http://www.liberty-page.com/issues/firearms/control.html#britain
This above one is a pro gun web site they tend to twist the facts!
RE::http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1741336.stm
Another newspaper article which has a tendency to express the feelings of the author! My source was from government stats collected ny the police!
RE::http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/uk_news/england/london/3195908.stm
This is from 2003 my data was more up to date! 2005
RE::http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/uk_news/england/london/3195908.stm
You posted this twice!
GOT ANYTHING MORE UP TO DATE AND NOT FROM A NEWSPAPER ARTICLE?
Tricks @ Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:04 pm
I don't like the current registry. It sucks balls. Bring in what Florida did. 
Madman @ Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:07 pm
and you anti gun BS does twist the facts either if i double tpped a post my bad
it seems the experts do not agree with you, you have your veiw, i have mine leave it at that, i am wasting my time at this point
CAGERATTLER @ Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:09 pm
Madman Madman:
i read the 2005 thing, but guess what for a percent change, you need a reference, what yesterday, last year?, 2004 saw a 35% increase for uk in violent crime, as hwaker said, rifles are not concealable, and making them short enough to makes them prohibited
the registry computers are unreliable, try asking some people in law enforcment, secondly, it the guys with guns you do not know about that is the problem
also allot of police deparment would rather have the $$ being wasted on the registry for law enforment
the registry computers are unreliable, try asking some people in law enforcment, secondly, it the guys with guns you do not know about that is the problem
also allot of police deparment would rather have the $$ being wasted on the registry for law enforment
You're not one of these guys who believes long guns are not used in crime are you?
Come on madman you're more intelligent than that!
Madman @ Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:10 pm
they are used in a comparitely small portion, furthure more they are most oftem modified to the point they are no longer clkassified a long gun in canada
what about knives, bats , cars.. they kill people 2 dont they.... or is it the person behind the object?
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