Canadians now spend more on taxes than on food, clothing and
uwish @ Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:17 am
definitely less than say, the average I would estimate.
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
stratos stratos:
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
Agreed. Although just a correction, provinces have always been constitutionally responsible for health care. He just cut the amount of federal funding provided.
Do all provinces have a income tax? Asking because not all States do. Some, like Texas, have a higher sales tax and certain cities have an extra gas tax. States with an income tax have a lower sales tax yet still have one.
Yes, all provinces have personal and corporate income taxes. Alberta, where uwish and I live, used to have a flat rate tax of 10%, but changed that based on income bracket for 2015 and 2016. For example, in 2014, everyone paid 10%. In 2015, earning $125k - $150k, you paid 10.5%, staggered in $50k increments up to $300k, which pays 11.25%.
In 2016, it'll be 12% for the $125k-$150k bracket, up to 15% for over $300k. Basically, in line with other provinces. Corporate income tax was similarly increased to be on par with every other province.
stratos stratos:
I find it interesting that your health care tax is generated mostly from the provinces and not the federal government. To me this would indicate that the poorer the province the less health care provided though at the same time the poor provinces are probably the ones needing the most health care. That's just a guess on my part no facts to back it up.
That goes to the federal 'Equalization' program, where rich province's taxes go to
Quebec poorer provinces to cover differences by region. That way poorer provinces (or territories) don't suffer because of low incomes.
As a point of clarity, equalization technically is not a special redistribution of taxes from rich provinces directly to poorer provinces. Equalization is a federal budget spending item, paid for by federal taxes, which are the same no matter what province you're from. A Quebec taxpayer pays the same federal tax as an Albetan of similar income level and therefore equally pays into equalization. Even if equalization was completely scrapped, the money is still from federal tax revenue, so would it just be rolled into some other federal budget item like Defence, not returned to the provinces.
The controversy with Equalization is not in the collection of revenue but the distribution of the payments. As the programs name suggests, the purpose of the program is to help ensure that standards of living in poorer provinces are more or less even with the rest of the the country so that necessarily requires uneven distribution which necessarily generates controversy. I don't think most people oppose the concept of equalization, but everyone has a different idea of what the formula should be and of course the actual final payments are subject to political agendas and backroom deals,etc, it's never been a transparent and administrative task.
peck420 @ Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:26 am
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
The controversy with Equalization is not in the collection of revenue but the distribution of the payments. As the programs name suggests, the purpose of the program is to help ensure that standards of living in poorer provinces are more or less even with the rest of the the country so that necessarily requires uneven distribution which necessarily generates controversy. I don't think most people oppose the concept of equalization, but everyone has a different idea of what the formula should be and of course the actual final payments are subject to political agendas and backroom deals,etc, it's never been a transparent and administrative task.
You are correct, the vast majority have no issue with equalization, or how the equalization funds are raised. The problem is the lack of accountability.
When you have a formula that makes it advantageous to NOT develop, you have a problem. If anything, the entire purpose of the equalization should be the reverse.
andyt @ Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:31 am
uwish uwish:
definitely less than say, the average I would estimate.
So you would favor paying for the services you use as you go? Ie all the free or subsidized schooling you got, you would have wanted to pay way higher taxes to pay for it as you used it? While you were not earning any money? As you age and start needing more and more healthcare, you want to start paying more and more taxes in your retirement to pay for it, because you didn't want to pay during your earning years? Your parents should have been handed a high bill for your birth, rather than averaging it out over time?
Just a couple of examples.
$1:
When you have a formula that makes it advantageous to NOT develop,
I'm not sure it does that....
andyt @ Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:52 am
$1:
Here are the results: In current dollars, Prince Edward Island received the most equalization dollars, at $2,229 per person on average in each of the last eight years.
Among the other five provinces that normally receive equalization payments — New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Manitoba , Quebec, and Newfoundland & Labrador (which received equalization payments until 2008 and received offshore accord payments until 2012) — Quebec received the least per capita at $933 annually, averaged over those eight years.
So maybe Quebec gets so much equalization because it has so many residents.
andyt @ Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:55 am
$1:
The equalization formula (to put this extremely simply) compares how much a province would collect in revenue using national averages for tax rates in five revenue-generating areas (property tax, corporate taxes, etc.), and determines how much that province actually is collecting.
So a province with low tax rates would get more than one with high tax rates.
peck420 @ Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:00 am
andyt andyt:
So a province with low tax rates would get more than one with high tax rates.
Incorrect.
The formula is based on REVENUES, not RATES.
And, no, revenues do not always increase as the rate increases, nor does it fall as the rate falls.
peck420 @ Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:02 am
andyt andyt:
So maybe Quebec gets so much equalization because it has so many residents.
A better question would be; why are some provinces perpetual 'have not's'?
The equalization program has been around long enough now for every Province to have gone through a complete economic cycle. Some have gone from have to have not, and back...some have remained suspiciously consistent.
peck420 @ Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:04 am
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
$1:
I'm not sure it does that....
The lower your revenues, the higher your payments.
That is a recipe for success, if I have ever seen one.
andyt andyt:
$1:
The equalization formula (to put this extremely simply) compares how much a province would collect in revenue using national averages for tax rates in five revenue-generating areas (property tax, corporate taxes, etc.), and determines how much that province actually is collecting.
So a province with low tax rates would get more than one with high tax rates.
I interpreted that as being the other way around - the province that is taxing at less than its full potential (the national average) gets less equalization than one that is already taxing at more than the average.
andyt @ Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:20 am
peck420 peck420:
andyt andyt:
So a province with low tax rates would get more than one with high tax rates.
Incorrect.
The formula is based on REVENUES, not RATES.
And, no, revenues do not always increase as the rate increases, nor does it fall as the rate falls.
So you're saying that lower tax rates would bring in more revenues? The old Laffer thing?
andyt @ Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:22 am
peck420 peck420:
andyt andyt:
So maybe Quebec gets so much equalization because it has so many residents.
A better question would be; why are some provinces perpetual 'have not's'?
The equalization program has been around long enough now for every Province to have gone through a complete economic cycle. Some have gone from have to have not, and back...some have remained suspiciously consistent.
Maybe because they don't have a ton of oil in the ground say, or other sources of revenues. You really expect all provinces to perform equally?
stratos @ Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:24 am
Thanks for the clarification Dr. & Beaver. Following this thread and now I have a better understanding of what's going on. ![Drink up [B-o]](./images/smilies/drinkup.gif)
andyt @ Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:26 am
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
andyt andyt:
$1:
The equalization formula (to put this extremely simply) compares how much a province would collect in revenue using national averages for tax rates in five revenue-generating areas (property tax, corporate taxes, etc.), and determines how much that province actually is collecting.
So a province with low tax rates would get more than one with high tax rates.
I interpreted that as being the other way around - the province that is taxing at less than its full potential (the national average) gets less equalization than one that is already taxing at more than the average.
Assuming that higher tax rates produce higher revenue (seems reasonable) the province with lower tax rates will have lower revenue from those sources of tax, so receive more equalization.