Clark Era Over As BC Greens Chose To Support NDP
Thanos @ Mon May 29, 2017 3:59 pm
Ah, what the hell. Even with the Libs the damn pipelines were going to get screwed over anyway. 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... -1.4136539
$1:
The B.C. Green Party has agreed to support the NDP in the legislature, setting up the possibility of 16 years of Liberal rule coming to a dramatic end.
NDP Leader John Horgan and Green Party Leader Andrew Weaver made the joint announcement Monday afternoon at the B.C. Legislature, saying they had reached a four-year agreement.
"In the end, we had to make a difficult decision," Weaver told reporters, describing the negotiating sessions his party held with the NDP and B.C. Liberals over the past three weeks.
"A decision we felt was in the best interest of B.C. today. And that decision was for the B.C. Greens to work with the B.C. NDP to provide a stable minority government over the four-year term of this next session."
The deal gives the NDP the support of 44 MLAs, the minimum number required to have a majority of support in the 87-seat legislature.
The Greens and NDP said the agreement was a "Confidence and Supply Agreement," meaning a guarantee of support for any budgets or confidence motions. But additional details on what the NDP has agreed to in exchange for the Greens' support won't be released until the NDP caucus approves the deal on Wednesday.
"We're going to put the agreement before our caucus and have it ratified, and make it available to the public at that time," Horgan said.
There were many issues the two parties agreed upon during the campaign, including working to stop the Kinder Morgan pipeline and banning corporate and union donations.
But it's unclear what will happen with those issues they disagreed on, including whether electoral reform needs approval in a referendum or just the legislature, or whether the $8.8-billion Site C hydroelectric dam project should be scrapped or merely sent for review.
"We specifically did not ask for there to be a coalition," Weaver said. "We wanted to maintain a minority situation to show British Columbians that [it] can work."
NDP Leader John Horgan and Green Party Leader Andrew Weaver made the joint announcement Monday afternoon at the B.C. Legislature, saying they had reached a four-year agreement.
"In the end, we had to make a difficult decision," Weaver told reporters, describing the negotiating sessions his party held with the NDP and B.C. Liberals over the past three weeks.
"A decision we felt was in the best interest of B.C. today. And that decision was for the B.C. Greens to work with the B.C. NDP to provide a stable minority government over the four-year term of this next session."
The deal gives the NDP the support of 44 MLAs, the minimum number required to have a majority of support in the 87-seat legislature.
The Greens and NDP said the agreement was a "Confidence and Supply Agreement," meaning a guarantee of support for any budgets or confidence motions. But additional details on what the NDP has agreed to in exchange for the Greens' support won't be released until the NDP caucus approves the deal on Wednesday.
"We're going to put the agreement before our caucus and have it ratified, and make it available to the public at that time," Horgan said.
There were many issues the two parties agreed upon during the campaign, including working to stop the Kinder Morgan pipeline and banning corporate and union donations.
But it's unclear what will happen with those issues they disagreed on, including whether electoral reform needs approval in a referendum or just the legislature, or whether the $8.8-billion Site C hydroelectric dam project should be scrapped or merely sent for review.
"We specifically did not ask for there to be a coalition," Weaver said. "We wanted to maintain a minority situation to show British Columbians that [it] can work."
BC politics - never dull but always stupid and ridiculous.
IGA @ Mon May 29, 2017 4:07 pm
well, we can look forward to getting transfer payments again. Shouldn't take long to become a have not province again
Thanos @ Mon May 29, 2017 4:24 pm
It's too bad Alberta is too committed to getting along with everyone all the time, for diplomatic reasons as well as fiscal ones, because the effort is entirely pointless. What we should be doing is telling BC to start building their own pipelines for gas down to the US border because, as retaliation for Kinder Morgan and Gateway, we're permanently shutting off all the pipelines from NW BC where they cross the provincial boundary. The Dippers here don't have that kind of toughness and if the righties in the PC or WRA were still in charge they wouldn't do it either because it would affect the companies bottom lines too much.
As per a million other slaps to face, from BC to Keystone to Energy East, this is just another message that Alberta is well and truly fucked unless we smarten up and do as much refining and processing inside of our own province instead of perpetually remaining a bulk shipper of crude product. There's not much point in being adult about it in Canada when it comes to provincial disputes. Not when the ones who want to work it out just end up looking like suckers and saps due to the colossal ignorance and intransigence of the ones determined to pick a fight. At this stage we might as well just cut a deal with the feds to double our rail-lines to the US because that's the only way shipping capacity will ever increase.
BeaverFever @ Mon May 29, 2017 5:08 pm
Very cool. I'm excited to see what ideas this coalition has and what they can (or can't) do. Wonder how long the coalition will last.
herbie @ Mon May 29, 2017 6:32 pm
Thanos Thanos:
It's too bad Alberta is too committed to getting along with everyone all the time, for diplomatic reasons as well as fiscal ones, because the effort is entirely pointless. What we should be doing is telling BC to start building their own pipelines for gas down to the US border because, as retaliation for Kinder Morgan and Gateway, we're permanently shutting off all the pipelines from NW BC where they cross the provincial boundary. The Dippers here don't have that kind of toughness and if the righties in the PC or WRA were still in charge they wouldn't do it either because it would affect the companies bottom lines too much.
As per a million other slaps to face, from BC to Keystone to Energy East, this is just another message that Alberta is well and truly fucked unless we smarten up and do as much refining and processing inside of our own province instead of perpetually remaining a bulk shipper of crude product. There's not much point in being adult about it in Canada when it comes to provincial disputes. Not when the ones who want to work it out just end up looking like suckers and saps due to the colossal ignorance and intransigence of the ones determined to pick a fight. At this stage we might as well just cut a deal with the feds to double our rail-lines to the US because that's the only way shipping capacity will ever increase.
As per a million other slaps to face, from BC to Keystone to Energy East, this is just another message that Alberta is well and truly fucked unless we smarten up and do as much refining and processing inside of our own province instead of perpetually remaining a bulk shipper of crude product. There's not much point in being adult about it in Canada when it comes to provincial disputes. Not when the ones who want to work it out just end up looking like suckers and saps due to the colossal ignorance and intransigence of the ones determined to pick a fight. At this stage we might as well just cut a deal with the feds to double our rail-lines to the US because that's the only way shipping capacity will ever increase.
What, you adopting a Trump attitude and cut off your own nose to spite your face?
Maybe try telling them to buy that oil, refine it and sell it to yourselves instead of bullshitting the BC public with job jobs jobs exporting it. Alberta still get their jobs regardless.
The NDP here is only committed to 'review' Kinder Morgan and the Feds could over-rule whatever they find. Veiled threats before anything happens are only gonna piss people here off and strengthen those who oppose, so tell Notley to back off for now.
ANd yeah it's gonna be interesting in BC. Same thing happened to Alta when you finally got sick of an entitled entrenched bunch of assholes that only worked for their closed group of friends and donors.
Coach85 @ Mon May 29, 2017 6:33 pm
It's not going to work.
With only 1 extra member, they need to have a Speaker which brings it to a split. Nothing will get done. This isn't a great situation for BC.
He was riding on the trail that runs beside the road.
Thanos @ Mon May 29, 2017 7:29 pm
herbie herbie:
Thanos Thanos:
It's too bad Alberta is too committed to getting along with everyone all the time, for diplomatic reasons as well as fiscal ones, because the effort is entirely pointless. What we should be doing is telling BC to start building their own pipelines for gas down to the US border because, as retaliation for Kinder Morgan and Gateway, we're permanently shutting off all the pipelines from NW BC where they cross the provincial boundary. The Dippers here don't have that kind of toughness and if the righties in the PC or WRA were still in charge they wouldn't do it either because it would affect the companies bottom lines too much.
As per a million other slaps to face, from BC to Keystone to Energy East, this is just another message that Alberta is well and truly fucked unless we smarten up and do as much refining and processing inside of our own province instead of perpetually remaining a bulk shipper of crude product. There's not much point in being adult about it in Canada when it comes to provincial disputes. Not when the ones who want to work it out just end up looking like suckers and saps due to the colossal ignorance and intransigence of the ones determined to pick a fight. At this stage we might as well just cut a deal with the feds to double our rail-lines to the US because that's the only way shipping capacity will ever increase.
As per a million other slaps to face, from BC to Keystone to Energy East, this is just another message that Alberta is well and truly fucked unless we smarten up and do as much refining and processing inside of our own province instead of perpetually remaining a bulk shipper of crude product. There's not much point in being adult about it in Canada when it comes to provincial disputes. Not when the ones who want to work it out just end up looking like suckers and saps due to the colossal ignorance and intransigence of the ones determined to pick a fight. At this stage we might as well just cut a deal with the feds to double our rail-lines to the US because that's the only way shipping capacity will ever increase.
What, you adopting a Trump attitude and cut off your own nose to spite your face?
This isn't like Trump going to Europe and turning the friends of the last seventy to a hundred-plus years into apathetic rivals. There is no relationship or friendship with BC to be saved. Until I see something to the contrary I'm going to accept that the enviro-protesters telling Alberta to go fuck ourselves are the voice of the majority of BC citizens. And advocate that Alberta should form our policies towards BC with that BC opinion in mind going forward.
$1:
Maybe try telling them to buy that oil, refine it and sell it to yourselves instead of bullshitting the BC public with job jobs jobs exporting it. Alberta still get their jobs regardless.
Preaching to the choir. The companies won't do it though because they don't want to cover the construction costs themselves. The only way this will happen will be via a three-way partnership between Alberta, Ottawa, and the companies. And this won't happen either because the shit-storm that would result among liberal Canadians if the feds put any money into refinery development in Alberta or Saskatchewan would be enough to topple the federal government, even Trudeau's one.
I accept that a majority of Canadians are left of center. I also accept as a given that most of these people want the Canadian oil & gas industry dead. Not smaller. Not cleaner. Not even nationalized. Just dead and permanently out of business, regardless of the consequences to the federal treasury or of becoming dependent on product from the US and the Arabs. That is the state of inter-provincial and inter-regional relations in this country. It is and always has been about harming each other for their own local political benefit, and always will be.
$1:
The NDP here is only committed to 'review' Kinder Morgan and the Feds could over-rule whatever they find. Veiled threats before anything happens are only gonna piss people here off and strengthen those who oppose, so tell Notley to back off for now.
That goes contrary to what the CBC was saying all along during the election. The BC NDP wanted KM stopped, period. And a "review" is just the way they'll do it because that "review" will never end. It'll be tied up in committees into perpetuity, with no end date stated, and that will kill the expansion as easily as a federal permit denial would. Plus they'll just send out the enviro-troops to put a stop to it before construction begins. It'll be the DAPL stand-off all over again, except worse for the pipeline guys because the BC government and a large part of the federal caucus and cabinet will openly be on the side of the demonstrators.
Notley wouldn't take my advice on being much more aggressive with BC. She's too much of a peacenik. The right-wingers in Alberta might, but they're too much of a pack of c***s on practically every other issue that they're unacceptable. When they get back in, which they will, with their current attitude they'll succeed only in turning Alberta into a pariah and a rogue state the same way Trump is doing with the United States.
$1:
ANd yeah it's gonna be interesting in BC. Same thing happened to Alta when you finally got sick of an entitled entrenched bunch of assholes that only worked for their closed group of friends and donors.
Like I said many times before I'd gas every human politician on the planet and put robots/computers/AI's in command of everything. It might approximate a genocide but at least would be done out of logic rather than greed and stupidity.
BRAH @ Mon May 29, 2017 7:54 pm
Thanos Thanos:
It's too bad Alberta is too committed to getting along with everyone all the time, for diplomatic reasons as well as fiscal ones, because the effort is entirely pointless. What we should be doing is telling BC to start building their own pipelines for gas down to the US border because, as retaliation for Kinder Morgan and Gateway, we're permanently shutting off all the pipelines from NW BC where they cross the provincial boundary. The Dippers here don't have that kind of toughness and if the righties in the PC or WRA were still in charge they wouldn't do it either because it would affect the companies bottom lines too much.
As per a million other slaps to face, from BC to Keystone to Energy East, this is just another message that Alberta is well and truly fucked unless we smarten up and do as much refining and processing inside of our own province instead of perpetually remaining a bulk shipper of crude product. There's not much point in being adult about it in Canada when it comes to provincial disputes. Not when the ones who want to work it out just end up looking like suckers and saps due to the colossal ignorance and intransigence of the ones determined to pick a fight. At this stage we might as well just cut a deal with the feds to double our rail-lines to the US because that's the only way shipping capacity will ever increase.
As per a million other slaps to face, from BC to Keystone to Energy East, this is just another message that Alberta is well and truly fucked unless we smarten up and do as much refining and processing inside of our own province instead of perpetually remaining a bulk shipper of crude product. There's not much point in being adult about it in Canada when it comes to provincial disputes. Not when the ones who want to work it out just end up looking like suckers and saps due to the colossal ignorance and intransigence of the ones determined to pick a fight. At this stage we might as well just cut a deal with the feds to double our rail-lines to the US because that's the only way shipping capacity will ever increase.
Alberta's only hope is Filderbrandt because he has the guts to stand up to Notley Crue.
Thanos @ Mon May 29, 2017 8:21 pm
No. Fildebrandt is a MAGA who would be so obnoxious that everyone (including Saskatchewan) would shut their borders on us. I'm advocating tit-for-tat reprisals against BC depending on what BC chooses to do, not calling for some ham-fisted war that gets everyone else pissed off at us too.
bootlegga @ Mon May 29, 2017 8:24 pm
Thanos Thanos:
It's too bad Alberta is too committed to getting along with everyone all the time, for diplomatic reasons as well as fiscal ones, because the effort is entirely pointless. What we should be doing is telling BC to start building their own pipelines for gas down to the US border because, as retaliation for Kinder Morgan and Gateway, we're permanently shutting off all the pipelines from NW BC where they cross the provincial boundary. The Dippers here don't have that kind of toughness and if the righties in the PC or WRA were still in charge they wouldn't do it either because it would affect the companies bottom lines too much.
As per a million other slaps to face, from BC to Keystone to Energy East, this is just another message that Alberta is well and truly fucked unless we smarten up and do as much refining and processing inside of our own province instead of perpetually remaining a bulk shipper of crude product. There's not much point in being adult about it in Canada when it comes to provincial disputes. Not when the ones who want to work it out just end up looking like suckers and saps due to the colossal ignorance and intransigence of the ones determined to pick a fight. At this stage we might as well just cut a deal with the feds to double our rail-lines to the US because that's the only way shipping capacity will ever increase.
As per a million other slaps to face, from BC to Keystone to Energy East, this is just another message that Alberta is well and truly fucked unless we smarten up and do as much refining and processing inside of our own province instead of perpetually remaining a bulk shipper of crude product. There's not much point in being adult about it in Canada when it comes to provincial disputes. Not when the ones who want to work it out just end up looking like suckers and saps due to the colossal ignorance and intransigence of the ones determined to pick a fight. At this stage we might as well just cut a deal with the feds to double our rail-lines to the US because that's the only way shipping capacity will ever increase.
The outright hatred for Albertans and our oi is getting to the point where we're second class citizens and as much as I love Canada, I'm starting to see the sense in saying fuck you all and joining either a separatist or US merger movement.
bootlegga @ Mon May 29, 2017 8:26 pm
Thanos Thanos:
No. Fildebrandt is a MAGA who would be so obnoxious that everyone (including Saskatchewan) would shut their borders on us. I'm advocating tit-for-tat reprisals against BC depending on what BC chooses to do, not calling for some ham-fisted war that gets everyone else pissed off at us too.
^ This.
If you want to see Albertans treated like Jews in 1930s Germany, select Fildebrat as leader of the UCP. He's one notch below Trump on the insane/idiotic scale.
Public_Domain @ Mon May 29, 2017 8:31 pm
herbie @ Mon May 29, 2017 8:37 pm
BC NDP doesn't like it, but their policy is to review it. Reality is they can and then say, we reviewed it but the feds say... we did what we could.
Just like Site C dam. It's already half built, stupid to stop it, smarter to find better deals with customers.
Greens won't like it much.
Don't forget you see the marchers on the news. Not the supporters or people who don't give a shit. Pipelines are actually supported by a slim majority according to polls.
And I'll repeat again, we're fucking idiots if we keep importing oil in the east and refined products in the west and fight each other to export our own oil.
martin14 @ Mon May 29, 2017 9:06 pm
It'll be interesting to see what price the Greens will charge for their support.
The European experience is that it is quite expensive.
Double the carbon tax ?
Gas prices ?
Ferry prices ?
Money and other pork ?
Party status ?
Thanos @ Mon May 29, 2017 9:29 pm
bootlegga bootlegga:
Thanos Thanos:
It's too bad Alberta is too committed to getting along with everyone all the time, for diplomatic reasons as well as fiscal ones, because the effort is entirely pointless. What we should be doing is telling BC to start building their own pipelines for gas down to the US border because, as retaliation for Kinder Morgan and Gateway, we're permanently shutting off all the pipelines from NW BC where they cross the provincial boundary. The Dippers here don't have that kind of toughness and if the righties in the PC or WRA were still in charge they wouldn't do it either because it would affect the companies bottom lines too much.
As per a million other slaps to face, from BC to Keystone to Energy East, this is just another message that Alberta is well and truly fucked unless we smarten up and do as much refining and processing inside of our own province instead of perpetually remaining a bulk shipper of crude product. There's not much point in being adult about it in Canada when it comes to provincial disputes. Not when the ones who want to work it out just end up looking like suckers and saps due to the colossal ignorance and intransigence of the ones determined to pick a fight. At this stage we might as well just cut a deal with the feds to double our rail-lines to the US because that's the only way shipping capacity will ever increase.
As per a million other slaps to face, from BC to Keystone to Energy East, this is just another message that Alberta is well and truly fucked unless we smarten up and do as much refining and processing inside of our own province instead of perpetually remaining a bulk shipper of crude product. There's not much point in being adult about it in Canada when it comes to provincial disputes. Not when the ones who want to work it out just end up looking like suckers and saps due to the colossal ignorance and intransigence of the ones determined to pick a fight. At this stage we might as well just cut a deal with the feds to double our rail-lines to the US because that's the only way shipping capacity will ever increase.
The outright hatred for Albertans and our oi is getting to the point where we're second class citizens and as much as I love Canada, I'm starting to see the sense in saying fuck you all and joining either a separatist or US merger movement.
No, because that ties our fate to oil too much. If some of these tech stories are true, especially the ones about electric cars going to be cheaper than gas ones in a decade, then we'd be leaving with all our eggs in one basket of a declining industry. Lose fuel sales over the next fifty years and half the reason for an oil industry basically disappears in front of you. If we did that and got caught in a major decline then we'd be begging to rejoin Canada a decade later, and it would be with all the balls in the court of people and political parties that already essentially despise us.
Short-term sucks, medium-term sucks, long-term sucks. It's going to be nothing but agriculture, forestry, and tourism around here in a half-century and there's nothing on this earth that's going to stop it as the technology ball gets rolling faster and faster with every passing year. And Albertans are too much like other Canadians anyway. It's not like we've done a better job than any other province of opening our minds to the changes we all knew were coming and preparing ourselves for it. Lack of foresight is a major part of the Canadian character, and it applies equally from coast to fucking coast.