Economists calculate hidden price of tax relief
Newsbot @ Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:50 am
Title: Economists calculate hidden price of tax relief
Category: Business
Posted By: DerbyX
Date: 2009-04-22 08:46:12
Canadian
DerbyX @ Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:50 am
Perhaps there is more to the NDP way of thinking then.
$1:
The majority of Canadian households enjoy a higher quality of life because the public services their taxes fund come at a solid bargain, according to a new study by the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives (CCPA).
Canada�s Quiet Bargain: The Benefits of Public Spending responds to incessant calls for tax cuts and concludes public services make a significant contribution to the majority of Canadians� standard of living � worth at least 50% of their income.
�What passes for a tax cut debate in Canada is really only half a debate,� says economist Hugh Mackenzie, the study�s co-author and CCPA research associate.
�Our taxes pay for services that are extremely valuable to Canadians. The suggestion we often hear, that taxes are a burden, hides the reality that our taxes fund public services that make Canada�s standard of living among the very best.�
The study shows middle-income Canadian families enjoy public services worth about $41,000 � or 63% of their income. Even households earning $80,000-$90,000 a year enjoy public services benefits equivalent to about half of their income.
The study also shows 80% of Canadians would be better off if the federal government hadn�t cut the GST; 75% would be better off if their provincial governments invested in public services instead of broad-based income tax cuts; and 88% would be better off without federal cuts to capital gains taxes.
�Tax cuts are always made to sound like they�re free money to middle-income Canadians � they are anything but,� says Mackenzie. �We�re far better off with the public services our taxes fund than we are with tax cuts.�
Canada�s Quiet Bargain: The Benefits of Public Spending responds to incessant calls for tax cuts and concludes public services make a significant contribution to the majority of Canadians� standard of living � worth at least 50% of their income.
�What passes for a tax cut debate in Canada is really only half a debate,� says economist Hugh Mackenzie, the study�s co-author and CCPA research associate.
�Our taxes pay for services that are extremely valuable to Canadians. The suggestion we often hear, that taxes are a burden, hides the reality that our taxes fund public services that make Canada�s standard of living among the very best.�
The study shows middle-income Canadian families enjoy public services worth about $41,000 � or 63% of their income. Even households earning $80,000-$90,000 a year enjoy public services benefits equivalent to about half of their income.
The study also shows 80% of Canadians would be better off if the federal government hadn�t cut the GST; 75% would be better off if their provincial governments invested in public services instead of broad-based income tax cuts; and 88% would be better off without federal cuts to capital gains taxes.
�Tax cuts are always made to sound like they�re free money to middle-income Canadians � they are anything but,� says Mackenzie. �We�re far better off with the public services our taxes fund than we are with tax cuts.�
Pseudonym @ Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:19 am
I guess it's time to raise taxes to 100% since the government can spend our money more efficiently than we ourselves can.
hurley_108 @ Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:19 am
Pseudonym Pseudonym:
I guess it's time to raise taxes to 100% since the government can spend our money more efficiently than we ourselves can.
Holy straw man, Batman!
DerbyX @ Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:23 am
Pseudonym Pseudonym:
I guess it's time to raise taxes to 100% since the government can spend our money more efficiently than we ourselves can.
So you think that it would be much better if the government did not collect taxes at all?
Pseudonym @ Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:29 am
hurley_108 hurley_108:
Pseudonym Pseudonym:
I guess it's time to raise taxes to 100% since the government can spend our money more efficiently than we ourselves can.
Holy straw man, Batman!
And then you go and set him on fire! I spent like 15 seconds making him too!
No reasonable person will contend that government has legitimate functions which it must fund with taxes in some form, but when I see a pair of economists claiming that government is getting us a better deal on some services than we could get ourselves, I am extremely sceptical. It does not follow the accepted laws of economics and common sense.
commanderkai @ Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:29 am
DerbyX DerbyX:
Pseudonym Pseudonym:
I guess it's time to raise taxes to 100% since the government can spend our money more efficiently than we ourselves can.
So you think that it would be much better if the government did not collect taxes at all?
I don't think anybody, not even libertarians argue this. Most people want lower taxes and smaller government because the government is spending way too much money on basically nothing. Sure taxes improve quality of life with services, they also create waste and non essential waste programs, like artist welfare.
Pseudonym @ Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:32 am
The study this article references does look interesting though. I wonder if it provides any insight into governmental costs and legitimate purposes of government. I might take a look at it.
DerbyX @ Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:35 am
Pseudonym Pseudonym:
hurley_108 hurley_108:
Pseudonym Pseudonym:
I guess it's time to raise taxes to 100% since the government can spend our money more efficiently than we ourselves can.
Holy straw man, Batman!
And then you go and set him on fire! I spent like 15 seconds making him too!
No reasonable person will contend that government has legitimate functions which it must fund with taxes in some form, but when I see a pair of economists claiming that government is getting us a better deal on some services than we could get ourselves, I am extremely sceptical. It does not follow the accepted laws of economics and common sense.
Who do you mean by us? Canada and the US have very different government funding scopes. Unless of course you are posting as a Canadian living in Canada of course. I'm just going by your flag and past history.
Did you examine their data or methodology to arrive at your conclusions? Knowing what I know about how health care is funded (at least in Ontario) I can attest that the government bargaining as a single collective "customer" is exceedingly better at getting bang for the buck then the public as a whole. Remember that we are talking overall but their data suggested that people were getting thousands more in health care then they paid in taxes.
That however is more because of the capped level of funding and the free health care every provider gives the province.
With just a little more money we can provide a much greater level of service however that exists under a law of diminishing return.
DerbyX @ Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:38 am
commanderkai commanderkai:
DerbyX DerbyX:
Pseudonym Pseudonym:
I guess it's time to raise taxes to 100% since the government can spend our money more efficiently than we ourselves can.
So you think that it would be much better if the government did not collect taxes at all?
I don't think anybody, not even libertarians argue this. Most people want lower taxes and smaller government because the government is spending way too much money on basically nothing. Sure taxes improve quality of life with services, they also create waste and non essential waste programs, like artist welfare.
Smaller government usually means legislative and not services. When people say they want smaller government they aren't saying they want fewer police do they?
To me a smaller government means less administrators.
This study is talking about how the government gets us a better health care service then we would manage under a user fee system.
hurley_108 @ Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:40 am
DerbyX DerbyX:
Pseudonym Pseudonym:
I guess it's time to raise taxes to 100% since the government can spend our money more efficiently than we ourselves can.
So you think that it would be much better if the government did not collect taxes at all?
Ah, so that's how you fight a straw man, with another straw man. Won't someone please think of the poor little straw babies who are losing their fathers all over the intertubes....
hurley_108 @ Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:41 am
commanderkai commanderkai:
DerbyX DerbyX:
Pseudonym Pseudonym:
I guess it's time to raise taxes to 100% since the government can spend our money more efficiently than we ourselves can.
So you think that it would be much better if the government did not collect taxes at all?
I don't think anybody, not even libertarians argue this. Most people want lower taxes and smaller government because the government is spending way too much money on basically nothing. Sure taxes improve quality of life with services, they also create waste and non essential waste programs, like artist welfare.
DerbyX @ Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:43 am
hurley_108 hurley_108:
DerbyX DerbyX:
Pseudonym Pseudonym:
I guess it's time to raise taxes to 100% since the government can spend our money more efficiently than we ourselves can.
So you think that it would be much better if the government did not collect taxes at all?
Ah, so that's how you fight a straw man, with another straw man. Won't someone please think of the poor little straw babies who are losing their fathers all over the intertubes....
Of course that was my point. Actually this article might damage the ideology behind debt repayment if it finds that we are better off putting any surplus back into social spending.
Robair @ Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:49 am
DerbyX DerbyX:
Perhaps there is more to the NDP way of thinking then.
Um, are we not taxed at over 50% of our income in Canada? $1:
Canada�s Quiet Bargain: The Benefits of Public Spending responds to incessant calls for tax cuts and concludes public services make a significant contribution to the majority of Canadians� standard of living � worth at least 50% of their income.
That's what I've always heard anyway...
DerbyX @ Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:01 am
Not entirely sure.
http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/arch ... c5234.html
$1:
The Canadian Consumer Tax Index, 2007, shows that even though the income
of the average Canadian family has increased significantly since 1961, their
total tax bill has increased at a much higher rate.
<<
- In 1961, the average Canadian family earned an income of $5,000 and
paid $1,675 in total taxes - 33.5 per cent of its income.
- In 2006, the average Canadian family earned an income of $63,001 and
paid total taxes equaling $28,311 - 44.9 per cent of its income.
>>
"The tax burden we face is made up of much more than just income tax.
When you add up all the taxes we have to pay to all levels of government, the
average Canadian family is paying more of its income to governments in the
form of taxes than they spend feeding, clothing and housing themselves," said
Niels Veldhuis, the study's co-author and Director of the Centre for Tax
Studies with the Fraser Institute.
of the average Canadian family has increased significantly since 1961, their
total tax bill has increased at a much higher rate.
<<
- In 1961, the average Canadian family earned an income of $5,000 and
paid $1,675 in total taxes - 33.5 per cent of its income.
- In 2006, the average Canadian family earned an income of $63,001 and
paid total taxes equaling $28,311 - 44.9 per cent of its income.
>>
"The tax burden we face is made up of much more than just income tax.
When you add up all the taxes we have to pay to all levels of government, the
average Canadian family is paying more of its income to governments in the
form of taxes than they spend feeding, clothing and housing themselves," said
Niels Veldhuis, the study's co-author and Director of the Centre for Tax
Studies with the Fraser Institute.
This suggests its under 45% for the average. It shows that as a % based we are spending much more then 1961. It doesn't however say if we get more provided services then in 1961.