Election talk harms Ignatieff in poll
gonavy47 @ Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:30 am
poquas poquas:
Akhenaten Akhenaten:
it's been this way fgor as long as I can remember.
I'd like to suggest your memory is somewhat flawed, or doesn't go back far enough to form a valid opinion.
My memory goes back to Pearson, even before that idiot Trudeau ruined the military of this country, AND raised taxes and spending. I agree with Akhenaten on this one. The liberals have raised taxes and given us less protection than any other government. How long have you been around? Yes you have lived outside the country and been successful,(congratulations), but you are not trying to run this country as it's leader either.
EyeBrock @ Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:34 am
I agree with poquas that living outside of the country shouldn't be an issue, personally I think a politician that has lived and worked in the US and UK would be an asset.
But....
This 'just visiting' thing has stuck and is resonating with the masses.
The unfortunate thing here, as others have mentioned, is that the Libs talking-heads were consistently bad-mouthing Harper for being cozy with the US and being a poodle of the dreaded Americans. This is now coming back to haunt them.
That vein of anti-Americanism that runs so deep in the Liberal party is now making Iggy vulnerable.
For years the Libs and media outlets like the CBC have had an obvious anti-US slant. Now the Libs have a leader who spent years in the US and is on sound-bites saying “we Americans”.
You guys laid the groundwork for Iggy’s demise. That’s why this ‘just visiting’ thing has worked so well. He’s ‘just visiting’ from the dreaded United States.
This election campaign will be fun and it’s Harpers to lose. Iggy has already lost it.
Akhenaten @ Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:45 am
$1:
The unfortunate thing here, as others have mentioned, is that the Libs talking-heads were consistently bad-mouthing Harper for being cozy with the US and being a poodle of the dreaded Americans. This is now coming back to haunt them.
That vein of anti-Americanism that runs so deep in the Liberal party is now making Iggy vulnerable.
For years the Libs and media outlets like the CBC have had an obvious anti-US slant. Now the Libs have a leader who spent years in the US and is on sound-bites saying “we Americans”.
You guys laid the groundwork for Iggy’s demise. That’s why this ‘just visiting’ thing has worked so well. He’s ‘just visiting’ from the dreaded United States.
This election campaign will be fun and it’s Harpers to lose. Iggy has already lost it.
That vein of anti-Americanism that runs so deep in the Liberal party is now making Iggy vulnerable.
For years the Libs and media outlets like the CBC have had an obvious anti-US slant. Now the Libs have a leader who spent years in the US and is on sound-bites saying “we Americans”.
You guys laid the groundwork for Iggy’s demise. That’s why this ‘just visiting’ thing has worked so well. He’s ‘just visiting’ from the dreaded United States.
This election campaign will be fun and it’s Harpers to lose. Iggy has already lost it.
Igg-sactly! I dont think his working outside the country is an issue either. I don't fall for the attack ads either (haven't even seen one since I live in Alberta), but you've described the situation perfectly. The 'Americanism' crap was something the Liberals and their supporters pushed forever. Now it's come back to bite them....even if it is in the form of a BS ad.
You summed it up way better than I could.
EyeBrock @ Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:49 am
Thanks Akhenaten!
ridenrain @ Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:46 pm
We bring to the courts attention item-1. A segment from the 2004 Liberal election dirty tricks department.
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Eyebrock's dead on with this one.
Lemmy @ Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:35 pm
ridenrain ridenrain:
You sure go on the Iggy defensive for someone who's not a Liberal.
Not true. I'll bash Iggy as hard as anyone for his stance on Iraq and a hundred other REAL reasons to criticize him. Being smart enough to work at Harvard isn't one of them.
EdwardRI @ Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:38 pm
I agree. The fact that Iggster went to Harvard makes me think highly of him. That his career is based in the US doesn't bother me at all. I like the US and might move there myself in the future.
ridenrain @ Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:51 pm
.. but just like Eyebrock said, you can't have it both ways.
You can't use pro-American as a criticism one year then ignore that your leader is more American than the other guy the next.
I'm more concerned that he simply has no connections or memory of shared events with Canadians. You can't truely think or feel like a Canadian from reading a newspaper or vacationing in Algonquin park every 5 years or so. A hell of a lot went on in the last 35 years and much of that makes us who we are now.
Lemmy @ Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:43 pm
ridenrain ridenrain:
I'm more concerned that he simply has no connections or memory of shared events with Canadians. You can't truely think or feel like a Canadian from reading a newspaper or vacationing in Algonquin park every 5 years or so. A hell of a lot went on in the last 35 years and much of that makes us who we are now.
BULLSHIT! I lived in the US for 3 years and I lived in Singapore for a year and I NEVER felt "unconnected". I spoke with family and friends daily. Modern telecommunications have made the world a small place, dude. Boston is an hour from Toronto. Hell, you can drive it in a day.
People in lots of places IN Canada are more out-of-touch with Canada than Canadians living abroad. In that group would be the people that think the "Just Visiting" campaign is meaningful.
You're working from a false premise.
ridenrain @ Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:55 pm
3 years isn't 35.
This is what killed Iggy's leadership campaign during the Liberal leader election so I don't see it as being a false premise at all. If it was important then, it's still important now.
And you still didn't address the fact that the Libs can't seem to decide if the Americans are a bad or good thing.
Caelon @ Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:15 pm
Lemmy Lemmy:
People in lots of places IN Canada are more out-of-touch with Canada than Canadians living abroad. In that group would be the people that think the "Just Visiting" campaign is meaningful.
You're working from a false premise.
You're working from a false premise.
I admit it was quite a few years ago that I was living abroad and trying to stay in touch listening to Radio Canada. In over a year I never heard one bit of news that did not concern the Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal triangle. There were provincial elections from other areas that never got mentioned. It seemed as if the show producers felt it was not relevant if it did not happen in the triangle.
Maybe it has gotten better in recent years, but when I was overseas it was not an effective way of staying up to date on CANADA.
Lemmy @ Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:22 pm
ridenrain ridenrain:
And you still didn't address the fact that the Libs can't seem to decide if the Americans are a bad or good thing.
I can't speak for the Liberals, but I don't know why we they'd HAVE to decide that. Why does it matter? The USA is where it is and it's not going away in the foreseeable future.
ridenrain @ Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:28 pm
Lemmy Lemmy:
I can't speak for the Liberals,
Why stop now?
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This clearly shows being pro-American as something bad yet Iggy identifies with them and even calls himself American. How san Liberal members be so hypocritical?
EyeBrock @ Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:30 pm
Lemmy Lemmy:
ridenrain ridenrain:
I'm more concerned that he simply has no connections or memory of shared events with Canadians. You can't truely think or feel like a Canadian from reading a newspaper or vacationing in Algonquin park every 5 years or so. A hell of a lot went on in the last 35 years and much of that makes us who we are now.
BULLSHIT! I lived in the US for 3 years and I lived in Singapore for a year and I NEVER felt "unconnected". I spoke with family and friends daily. Modern telecommunications have made the world a small place, dude. Boston is an hour from Toronto. Hell, you can drive it in a day.
People in lots of places IN Canada are more out-of-touch with Canada than Canadians living abroad. In that group would be the people that think the "Just Visiting" campaign is meaningful.
You're working from a false premise.
"Just visiting" is sticking Lemmy. And there is so much more ammo for the attack ads.
All these years the Libs have spent telling us how bad any connections with the US are will hurt them. Iggy is more yank inclined than Harper ever was.
Iggy will lose, and it will be Caesar in the Senate, and the knives will be out.
You’re not telling me that the rampant anti-Americanism that has been part of the Liberal brand for decades has disappeared because Iggy has arrived?
It's there, bubbling under the surface, festering away and it's gonna come out.
The Libs just can’t help it. Hating the US is a core Liberal value, always has been.
Lemmy @ Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:37 pm
ridenrain ridenrain:
Lemmy Lemmy:
I can't speak for the Liberals,
Why stop now?
You're mis-diagnosing me, Doctor. The symptoms may be similar, but "Anti-Harper" and "Pro-Liberal" are different afflictions.
ridenrain ridenrain:
This clearly shows being pro-American as something bad yet Iggy identifies with them and even calls himself American. How san Liberal members be so hypocritical?
It's a non-issue, so I don't see how it matters if there's hypocracy. No matter who leads us, we're in bed with the Americans whether we like it or not. Like Jefferson said of slavery "It's like holding a wolf by the ears. You don't like it, but you sure as hell don't want to let go." We have to take some of the bad with the good we enjoy as allies and trade partners with the USA. Let's just hope whomever leads us has backbone and common sense enough to avoid following the Americans on any of their future colonial follies, because had either Harper or Iggy been in power in 2002, Canada'd have been at war in Iraq. On that point I'm 100% certain.