Nova Scotia teen kills herself after rape, bullying, mother
Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 10 Next
Strutz @ Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:02 am
andyt andyt:
Anyone should be able to run around drunk and naked and not get raped. I should be able to plaster 100 dollar bills all over my body and not get robbed. I should be able to leave my bike anywhere and not have it stolen.
But, none of those are a good idea. Prosecute people we have sufficient proof for if they did any of those things. But don't take out a desire for vengance on possibly innocent people. And, blaming the victim or not, just as I'd be called stupid for leaving my bike out in a high theft area (even with a lock), it's stupid to get so drunk you don't know what you're doing.
A lot of the bullies of his girl, and Amanda Todd, were other girls. There's the harm of the actual event, and the equal harm of the shaming afterwards. So teach your sons and your daughters what's right and wrong. But those teens didn't create the world they live in, and their behavior is not unusual these days. So we need to look at the rest of us, and what kind of society we are creating. Too much gree and self interest given a free reign would be what I see the problem is. Too many parents working like dogs to have some sort of material life, and letting family life go to the dogs.
But, none of those are a good idea. Prosecute people we have sufficient proof for if they did any of those things. But don't take out a desire for vengance on possibly innocent people. And, blaming the victim or not, just as I'd be called stupid for leaving my bike out in a high theft area (even with a lock), it's stupid to get so drunk you don't know what you're doing.
A lot of the bullies of his girl, and Amanda Todd, were other girls. There's the harm of the actual event, and the equal harm of the shaming afterwards. So teach your sons and your daughters what's right and wrong. But those teens didn't create the world they live in, and their behavior is not unusual these days. So we need to look at the rest of us, and what kind of society we are creating. Too much gree and self interest given a free reign would be what I see the problem is. Too many parents working like dogs to have some sort of material life, and letting family life go to the dogs.
I'd rep you for this if I could. Yes... look at what we have become.
andyt @ Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:12 am
It's probably worse than it used to be Strutz. But, in the good old days, 'good boys' could get away with doing this to a girl who wasn't 'good' (and being drunk would be proof of her not being good) and would never have been prosecuted. The thing that kept girls safe in those days were the greater restrictions society and they themselves placed on their behavior. Just don't want to get too nostalgic here either - this sort of crap has been going on for ever. I was taught that girls really wanted it, they just had to be pushed into giving it up to have an excuse. I was just never very comfortable with doing that pushing, plus by that time free love was in the air, so I didn't have to. Still, the pushier guys always seemed to do better, or at least said they did.
But aside from the collapse of family life (= collapse of the middle class) the big thing here is electronic communication and how it can follow you around.
Gunnair @ Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:15 am
Brenda Brenda:
Gunnair Gunnair:
Brenda Brenda:
I understand that.
Yet, one cannot not always avoid rape, you cannot expect teens not having raging hormones and we all drank.
Then, after being raped, moved cities and schools, still being bullied is not something you can avoid.
She removed herself from the situation. It was not enough.
Yet, one cannot not always avoid rape, you cannot expect teens not having raging hormones and we all drank.
Then, after being raped, moved cities and schools, still being bullied is not something you can avoid.
She removed herself from the situation. It was not enough.
She removed herself from the situation after the fact. Irrespective of the bullying discussion, it's best to understand how the world works and know that this can and will occur. Don't put yourself in the situation in the first place.
I'm sorry, Gunny, but blaming the victim and saying "she shouldn't have been there in the first place" is painful to read and totally unfair.
My kids are 13 and 15. EVERYONE has a cell phone. Everyone takes pictures. Everyone posts them. You cannot keep teens inside. I try to make very clear to them that whatever they do, whatever happens, it can put up on the internet and never ever disappear anymore. It is sad.
$1:
Don't get me wrong here, though. The fact is, no matter how much hand wringing and social media outrage we show, these events will continue to occur. That is a fact and it will not change. We simply must accept that bullying will occur no matter what we say, and we have to acknowledge that it is a far different kind than what we endured.
Absolutely.
You've skipped over the main point, Brenda. A 15 yr old girl and excessive booze. That is the victem's fault. You can hang around with your friends till the cows come home but get yourself wasted and into a position where she or those around her are going to make really stupid decisions is a fault you can put on the victem.
Fact is, so far, the rape allegations are simply that - allegations. At this point it's a toss up between four guys raping a girl or a girl who got herself roaring drunk, whooped it up with the boys, then felt really bad about it the next morning (not unheard if I think you might admit) none if that has much to do with the reprehensible follow on bullying nor dies it excuse it, but pie in the sky thinking that bullying will suddenly disappear with legislation and a sudden realization by kids that it's bad is dumb. It's a reality our kids have to deal with and they need to protect themselves from the situations that may result in bullying.
Curtman @ Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:19 am
andyt andyt:
Anyone should be able to run around drunk and naked and not get raped. I should be able to plaster 100 dollar bills all over my body and not get robbed. I should be able to leave my bike anywhere and not have it stolen.
But, none of those are a good idea. Prosecute people we have sufficient proof for if they did any of those things. But don't take out a desire for vengance on possibly innocent people. And, blaming the victim or not, just as I'd be called stupid for leaving my bike out in a high theft area (even with a lock), it's stupid to get so drunk you don't know what you're doing.
A lot of the bullies of his girl, and Amanda Todd, were other girls. There's the harm of the actual event, and the equal harm of the shaming afterwards. So teach your sons and your daughters what's right and wrong. But those teens didn't create the world they live in, and their behavior is not unusual these days. So we need to look at the rest of us, and what kind of society we are creating. Too much gree and self interest given a free reign would be what I see the problem is. Too many parents working like dogs to have some sort of material life, and letting family life go to the dogs.
But, none of those are a good idea. Prosecute people we have sufficient proof for if they did any of those things. But don't take out a desire for vengance on possibly innocent people. And, blaming the victim or not, just as I'd be called stupid for leaving my bike out in a high theft area (even with a lock), it's stupid to get so drunk you don't know what you're doing.
A lot of the bullies of his girl, and Amanda Todd, were other girls. There's the harm of the actual event, and the equal harm of the shaming afterwards. So teach your sons and your daughters what's right and wrong. But those teens didn't create the world they live in, and their behavior is not unusual these days. So we need to look at the rest of us, and what kind of society we are creating. Too much gree and self interest given a free reign would be what I see the problem is. Too many parents working like dogs to have some sort of material life, and letting family life go to the dogs.
People tell stories of the days when it was possible to raise a family on one decent income. It sounds wonderful.
Gunnair @ Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:23 am
Thanos Thanos:
Brenda Brenda:
Teach your sons.
Too much to ever expect from some people apparently, judging from some of the responses here. And that's one hell of a tragedy right there.
Yes exactly. Not wanting to run out and lynch teens based on an accusation means that those if us with teen boys have zero moral expectations.
I suspect you have no children of your own. Maybe that's a plus given the morally bankrupt suggestions you make sometimes in your posts.
I know you won't tone it down but your attacks on anyone not in lock step with your opinions because you feel they are some kind of teen boy rape enabler is utterly foolish and certainly sidelines yourself on this discussion. Stay in the background and grind on, but you made yourself irrelevant to mature dialogue.
Gunnair @ Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:26 am
Brenda Brenda:
Unsound Unsound:
Brenda Brenda:
I'm sorry, Gunny, but blaming the victim and saying "she shouldn't have been there in the first place" is painful to read and totally unfair.
She can "hang out", as you put it, no problem. But getting black out drunk with a bunch of boys is just irresponsible.
It is unfair. And it's not her fault. No one ever deserves for these things to happen to them. That is plain fact and no one disputes it. What we're saying is that it's not a perfect world and we shouldn't pretend to our kids that it is. We have to teach them how not be victims. Whether that means thinking twice about your drinking buddies, or not flashing your expensive jewellery in the wrong part of town.
I agree, but like you said, what about parents with boys? I have 2 girls. Why can't the girls make a mistake without it haunting them forever?
Raise your boys to NOT put those pics online. To NOT touch drunk girls.
A drunk guy swaying his dick around is awesome, what a fantastic guy! A "LOOK WHAT MY DRUNK BUDDY DID!"-caption on a picture will not haunt him. It's "cool".
Yet an abused girl is a slut.
Teach your sons.
Fair point.
Mind, I don't recall hearing about all that support from her female friends and classmates. Must have missed that.
Or maybe they took a lot of pleasure in ostracizing her - like watching hens peck an injured bird to death.
Teach your daughters.
Strutz @ Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:30 am
andyt andyt:
But aside from the collapse of family life (= collapse of the middle class) the big thing here is electronic communication and how it can follow you around.
Very true and when it comes to electronic communication... there are virtually no rules or regulations. Anything goes and does. Frightening really.
Thanos @ Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:41 am
Gunnair Gunnair:
Yes exactly. Not wanting to run out and lynch teens based on an accusation means that those if us with teen boys have zero moral expectations.
I suspect you have no children of your own. Maybe that's a plus given the morally bankrupt suggestions you make sometimes in your posts.
I know you won't tone it down but your attacks on anyone not in lock step with your opinions because you feel they are some kind of teen boy rape enabler is utterly foolish and certainly sidelines yourself on this discussion. Stay in the background and grind on, but you made yourself irrelevant to mature dialogue.
I suspect you have no children of your own. Maybe that's a plus given the morally bankrupt suggestions you make sometimes in your posts.
I know you won't tone it down but your attacks on anyone not in lock step with your opinions because you feel they are some kind of teen boy rape enabler is utterly foolish and certainly sidelines yourself on this discussion. Stay in the background and grind on, but you made yourself irrelevant to mature dialogue.
I suppose, like Kinsella and Anonymous both pointed out, it's an allegation backed up by photographic evidence that the rapists took themselves and then went out of their way to spread as far and wide as they possibly could. And that the RCMP decided to ignore it, even when at a minimum they could have laid some kind of child pornography charge based on the existence and sharing of the photographs alone. Heave all your typical grumpy old snot nonsense at me all you want, on the face of it there was a crime committed and the authority structure that was supposed to investigate, charge, and then punish broke down and failed miserably.
andyt @ Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:43 am
Gunnair Gunnair:
Mind, I don't recall hearing about all that support from her female friends and classmates. Must have missed that.
That was the point of the poingant quote people have posted here - the silence of her friends is what hurt the most. They don't sound like real friends, and I bet this feeling of being alone is what drove her to kill herself. If she had supportive peers she'd very likely be alive today.
Brenda @ Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:47 am
Gunnair Gunnair:
Brenda Brenda:
Unsound Unsound:
She can "hang out", as you put it, no problem. But getting black out drunk with a bunch of boys is just irresponsible.
It is unfair. And it's not her fault. No one ever deserves for these things to happen to them. That is plain fact and no one disputes it. What we're saying is that it's not a perfect world and we shouldn't pretend to our kids that it is. We have to teach them how not be victims. Whether that means thinking twice about your drinking buddies, or not flashing your expensive jewellery in the wrong part of town.
I agree, but like you said, what about parents with boys? I have 2 girls. Why can't the girls make a mistake without it haunting them forever?
Raise your boys to NOT put those pics online. To NOT touch drunk girls.
A drunk guy swaying his dick around is awesome, what a fantastic guy! A "LOOK WHAT MY DRUNK BUDDY DID!"-caption on a picture will not haunt him. It's "cool".
Yet an abused girl is a slut.
Teach your sons.
Fair point.
Mind, I don't recall hearing about all that support from her female friends and classmates. Must have missed that.
Or maybe they took a lot of pleasure in ostracizing her - like watching hens peck an injured bird to death.
Teach your daughters.
There wasn't any support, mind the “In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends”. They went on bullying after she moved to another city, another school.
What we should teach our daughters is to stick up for our fellow girls. The thing I despise most about my gender is the bitchiness towards each other. We should stand up for each other. But no, we put each other down about weight, choice of partner, too much or too little sex, the colour of our hair, the way we dress and we steal each other`s men.
It is ridiculous.
Brenda @ Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:47 am
andyt andyt:
Gunnair Gunnair:
Mind, I don't recall hearing about all that support from her female friends and classmates. Must have missed that.
That was the point of the poingant quote people have posted here - the silence of her friends is what hurt the most. They don't sound like real friends, and I bet this feeling of being alone is what drove her to kill herself. If she had supportive peers she'd very likely be alive today.
Yep.
2Cdo @ Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:48 am
Brenda Brenda:
What we should teach our daughters is to stick up for our fellow girls. The thing I despise most about my gender is the bitchiness towards each other. We should stand up for each other. But no, we put each other down about weight, choice of partner, too much or too little sex, the colour of our hair, the way we dress and we steal each other`s men.
It is ridiculous.
It is ridiculous.
Females, as a rule, are absolutely ruthless when they turn on each other.
Strutz @ Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:57 am
2Cdo 2Cdo:
Brenda Brenda:
What we should teach our daughters is to stick up for our fellow girls. The thing I despise most about my gender is the bitchiness towards each other. We should stand up for each other. But no, we put each other down about weight, choice of partner, too much or too little sex, the colour of our hair, the way we dress and we steal each other`s men.
It is ridiculous.
It is ridiculous.
Females, as a rule, are absolutely ruthless when they turn on each other.
Brenda - I'd rep you for this comment if I could but it has apparently been too recent since last time so I will also give you a
And yes, 2Cdo females are. As one who was bullied by other girls I know just how bad it can be too, which is why these stories upset me so much.
andyt @ Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:00 am
Brenda Brenda:
What we should teach our daughters is to stick up for our fellow girls. The thing I despise most about my gender is the bitchiness towards each other. We should stand up for each other. But no, we put each other down about weight, choice of partner, too much or too little sex, the colour of our hair, the way we dress and we steal each other`s men.
It is ridiculous.
It's just a different form of competition for status. Boys are more direct with it. It causes harm as well (look at the losers that go on killing sprees) but it does seem a bit more honest than the backbiting of girls. But both boys and girls suffer from this cruel way teens have of creating rank. Probably an evolutionary thing, 'cause I think it's been around for ever. And again, adults don't set a good example there either.
ShepherdsDog @ Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:03 am
That's because it's not socially acceptable for females to physically kick the shit out of each other....work out the anger, and then go have a beer together. You've been conditioned into becoming passive aggressive sharp tongued harpies. Generally we're too thick to understand when you attack us, and then you go after each other even more vigorously
Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 10 Next