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Derby, once again you assume you know my position so well, there is no point in discussing it with you.

What.. people who read books?



So what? There was no time frame on the question, other than the one you assume. Believe it or not, even our peacekeeping brothers & sisters have been taking prisoner since WW1 and probably still are.



The capture and interogation has been a reliable method ever since we fought in groups. I agree that it's "unreliable unless corroborated" and I said that you can make people tell you what they think you want to hear.

Let's make the distinction between interogation and torture, because that's really what we're talking about.

In my example, and probably the War on Roses, enemy combatants (that's what they are) are captured from the battlefield and questioned. They may be sleep deprived and they might even be beaten up a bit but then again, it is a war and folks are being killed all over the place. Information is checked against others and verified. The idea is to get a little from everybody and build the big picture from that, not to torture some poor sap who makes up everything just so you stop hurting him.




Please state you're point so I can reply, rather than just assuming what I'm going to say.



My examples are a war time situation but it's obvious that you want to beat me up over Gitmo. I can't say because the CIA and allied organizations don't answer my E-mails. As vast as the "right wing conspiracy" is, it just dosen't go that far, or maybe I didn't get that decoder ring.
I have to assume that the folks who earmark folks for interogation are a little better than the RCMP.


Now again you asume who I am and what I believe. The original poll says nothing about muslim terrorists, nor did I even mention it.

   

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You make it abundantly clear every post you make. You aren't an agatha christie novel you know.



uhhh cons. In addition given the far more extensive academic credentials of us lefites you are losing on the book count.



Taking POW's ins't the issue made doubly so by the US callimng them all "unlawful combatants" which are al chiefly people picked up in the Stan.



Neither of us are even remotely qualified to assume that any meaningful interrogation or torture is being conducted.



To be honest I highly doubt that people during the time of (TWOTR) were sofisticated enough to determine the difference.



My point is that I believe that you believe that everybody captured and tortured is guilty.



Factor in teh reality that most of the gitmo detainess were picked up in the stan.



Its easy to extrapolate based on the positions held by forum members.

   

To borow from Iggy:
"I take full responsibility for not having anticipated how incompetent the RCMP would be."

More to the point, who sent him there and who is left to apologise?
Take you're rightious indignation and stick it!

   

During war games I once interrogated an enemy combatant. Now this big tough guy knew we couldn't even slap him around let alone torture him to get information so with his hands tied behind his back we threw him to the ground in front of an ML then blindfolded him and told him to spill his guts or we'd crush his skull with the truck but he just laughed and hurled more insults at us. We started it up and revved the engine but he just kept laughing. When we rolled the spare tire against his head and kept revving the engine he became pretty cooperative pretty fast.

The point is, physical torture is quite dated and despite what Hollywood tells you, is not really an option for Western militaries so they have just found alternative ways over the last century.

AUS/CAN/UK/US as it is known, possess probably the most well developed interrogation techniques in the history of warfare. That the US is alleged to be resorting to physical torture to extract information belies an ignorance of their skill and seems more to be on the part of wishful thinking by the anti US crowd then any real evidence.

The point is, torture is quite dated and despite what hollywood tells you, is not really an option for Western militaries so they have just found alternative ways over the last century. Other armies are still developing their interrogation techniques

   

Look whose accusing others of callousness!

   

As I said, I can't say. Neither of us is in on the morning briefing of GWB. I will admit that there are probably things going on that all of us would be terrified of, if we knew. I guess that "better unknown" is what the Orwell quote references.
I agree that capturing and torturing innocent people is useless. I can't (and did) say that I don't know if all the people at Gitmo are guilty.

I believe they are, you do not.

   

In the immortal words of Mayor Tommy Shanks: Goodnight.

   

Abu Ghraib Prison Photos.

And they call this torture Looks more like hazing to me.

Picture #7 reminds me of basic

Picture #17 is pretty frightening though.

   

Is it silly to think that Israel supporting torture like it does is a massive irony?

I mean, like, holy fuck.

   

Torture is horrible.

But if my son were kidnapped and they were threatening to kill him, and I had someone who knew were they were keeping him, I'd do whatever it took to get whatever information I needed.

And a helluva lot more than 20% of Canadians would do the same thing.

   

Canadian Cahrter of Rights and Freedoms Section 12

12. Everyone has the right not to be subjected to any cruel and unusual TREATMENT or punishment.

torture has no refference, nor does hazing.

   

I guess it depends what you call "torture". Our soldiers kill people isn't that cruel for the enemy to have to take bullets out of themselves? Or how about having your leg blown off or a hole in the back of your head? What exactly is torture because you do it in an installation type place? Oh the Canadian charter of rights and freedom’s is rubbish.

   

I went through huts of cs gas,months on end of 'camping' out in the cold snows and sogging wet and muddy rains, never ending fucking PT always at some ungodly time in the morning so that I could defend Canada. Hazing was something to 'calibrate your expections'. I went through that in effect so that others did not have to. This really pisses me off to no end because all that was for nothing when the people we fight for are 'ok' with torture. We trained like barbarians to fight barbarians but we did not become barbarians and it really ticks me off when the people decide to become so anyway. Nothing I can do about it and so I am at peace with that. I guess to suggest this was no worse than a little frat boys 'hazing' did invoke some old memories but at least I knew what I went through was by choice.

   

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