Ottawa to offer Omar Khadr apology, $10-million compensation
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DrCaleb @ Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:28 am
BRAH BRAH:
The minute the Convicted Terrorist murdered the U.S. Medic he had no rights.
That's the talking point people always bring up. It's also not relevant.
If Khadr was a soldier in Afghanistan, then it's not 'murder'. If he wasn't a soldier, then he's still a Canadian citizen, and has Constitutional rights. Things like taking youth into sentencing consideration, and not being tortured into a confession.
That's why he keeps winning cases before the Supreme Court.
https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/en/d/ ... 2=&p=&su=0
And there is doubt as to whether he even threw the grenade that killed that medic.
$1:
However Lieutenant-Commander Bill Kuebler, Mr. Khadr's lead defence lawyer, argued in court Friday afternoon for the production of a witness - "Soldier No. 2" - who the lawyer claims will present a very different account of events, one in which Mr. Khadr is found not sitting up, but buried under the rubble of a recently collapsed roof (the U.S. military bombed the compound Mr. Khadr was staying in before the soldiers moved in).
"Soldier No. 2 will establish the [other version of events]is false," Lt.-Cmdr. Kuebler told the court.
. . .
Asked afterward why the judge didn't allow him to show the photos, Lt. Cmdr. Kuebler told reporters: "Because they show he's innocent."
"Soldier No. 2 will establish the [other version of events]is false," Lt.-Cmdr. Kuebler told the court.
. . .
Asked afterward why the judge didn't allow him to show the photos, Lt. Cmdr. Kuebler told reporters: "Because they show he's innocent."
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/wo ... e20391135/
It's amazing the things you learn when you don't allow cognitive bias to get in your way.
Sunnyways @ Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:42 am
rickc rickc:
Sunnyways Sunnyways:
Why not sue all the Taliban while you are at it or anybody who has ever had the temerity to resist Americans in any way.
Your post is telling. It sums up the basic differences between the right and the left in the west. In your eyes, the Taliban is somehow "standing up to America". Thats funny. The vast majority of the people living on the planet (Muslims included) see the Taliban as a bunch of thugs that rape and murder women for having the audacity to go to school, or have a voice in her community. These assholes destroyed 4th and 5th century monuments in Afghanistan simply because they were not "Muslim". These assholes allowed terrorist thugs to live in their country. Thats called "keeping bad company". When you let murderous thugs live in your home, you suffer the same fate as them. Trying to portray the Taliban as some sort of "freedom fighter" standing up to American imperialism is total horse shit. Thousands of civilians who happened to be innocent workers and tourists lost thier lives on 9/11. They did nothing to deserve that fate. The Taliban gave safe passage to the thugs that made 9/11 possible. They deserve everything they got. Trying to portray the Taliban as some sort of "freedom fighters against American imperialism" is just pathetic. I personally would give the apologists for the Taliban the same treatment as the Taliban, only worse.
I would also disagree with that person you call 'you' there who bears no resemblance to me whatsoever, I don't support the Taliban AT ALL. Their violent, tribalist culture is something humanity has taken centuries to emerge from. I oppose Taliban thinking wherever it occurs and we are all capable of it. Ironically, mere mention of Khadr brings out the inner Taliban in a lot of people.
I supported the invasion of Afghanistan but I fully expected armed resistance. That is what nearly always happens when you invade a country. Suing somebody for allegedly doing it is preposterous.
The Taliban sheltered AQ but many observers across the political spectrum, including Steve Sailer who is no leftist, doubt they had much understanding of what was going to happen next. These are not well informed people. They are content to continue their murderous feuds indefinitely which is one reason why the occupation of Afghanistan is going so badly. Get in and get out should have been the mantra.
Sunnyways @ Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:50 am
You'd think Khadr was some terrorist mastermind the way people go on about him.
martin14 @ Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:53 am
Sunnyways Sunnyways:
You'd think Khadr was some terrorist mastermind the way people go on about him.
Mastermind ?
No.
Useful idiot, perhaps.
BRAH @ Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:54 am
Defending the Convicted Terrorist who murdered a U.S. Medic is no different then defending ISIS Terrorists, let that sink in.
DrCaleb @ Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:58 am
BRAH BRAH:
Defending the Convicted Terrorist who murdered a U.S. Medic is no different then defending ISIS Terrorists, let that sink in.
Standing up for a kid who's dad fucked him over is no different than advocating for a survivor of parental abuse. Let your cognitive bias wrestle with that.
BRAH @ Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:04 am
You're standing up for a Convicted Terrorist who murdered a U.S. Medic, that speaks volumes about your lack of a moral compass, let that sink in. 
Sunnyways @ Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:07 am
BRAH BRAH:
Defending the Convicted Terrorist who murdered a U.S. Medic is no different then defending ISIS Terrorists, let that sink in.
I see many differences. Can you really see no reason for leniency in a case where a young person is brought by his family to Afghanistan? Is that not an extenuating circumstance worthy of mention at least? He did not volunteer to go there. Was he supposed to stay in Canada after his family left? The Khadrphobes won't even talk about these things. Basically, he is as guilty as Mullah Omar in their eyes. Part of his guilt seems to arise from his family's guilt which is definitely Taliban thinking.
Sunnyways @ Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:08 am
BRAH BRAH:
You're standing up for a Convicted Terrorist who murdered a U.S. Medic, that speaks volumes about your lack of a moral compass, let that sink in.
He allegedly killed a US soldier in a war.
DrCaleb @ Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:47 am
Sunnyways Sunnyways:
BRAH BRAH:
You're standing up for a Convicted Terrorist who murdered a U.S. Medic, that speaks volumes about your lack of a moral compass, let that sink in.
He allegedly killed a US soldier in a war.
His conviction is also based not on the rule of law, and may have been coerced through torture. Brah's refusal to be objective also shows where his moral compass points. That and the fact that I question things without following blindly is somehow a moral failing.
$1:
"It's classified evidence of an exculpatory nature," Lt.-Cmdr. Kuebler said, adding prosecutors "made us aware of this at the last minute." Some observers, flown to Guantanamo to witness the proceedings, denounced the prosecution.
"It is totally outrageous that the prosecution would try to push ahead with a hearing on whether or not Khadr was an unlawful enemy combatant, while all the time withholding from the defence potentially exculpatory information," said Jennifer Daskal of Human Rights Watch. "Anyone who has ever gone to law school knows the fundamental legal and ethical rule: The prosecution cannot withhold exculpatory information from the defence."
"It is totally outrageous that the prosecution would try to push ahead with a hearing on whether or not Khadr was an unlawful enemy combatant, while all the time withholding from the defence potentially exculpatory information," said Jennifer Daskal of Human Rights Watch. "Anyone who has ever gone to law school knows the fundamental legal and ethical rule: The prosecution cannot withhold exculpatory information from the defence."
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/wo ... le1089280/
$1:
Kuebler is an American lawyer who, like many of his fellow citizens, decided to serve his country after the 9/11 attacks and joined the military. He was eventually assigned as a Defense lawyer for terrorism suspects held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. His list of clients includes Omar Khadr, a Canadian citizen taken into custody by American forces in Afghanistan in 2002, and accused of causing the death of an American soldier. Khadr was 15 years old at the time.
At Guantanamo, Bill Kuebler has wrestled with disillusionment and eventually frustration, and now has some choice words reserved for the legal process established there, a process of which he is an increasingly dissenting part.
It is a process that has seen the concept of torture "narrowly redefined." It has seen rules of procedure and evidence invented on the fly to suit specific needs. ("They were able to sit around and say 'Gee, if the hearsay rule is A, we win. If the hearsay rule is B, we lose. Well, hmm, let's pick A', and that's the process we have in Guantanamo.")
It has seen people detained without charge for years and taken out of the usual criminal process. Because of the questionable evidence gathering methods, says Kuebler, "We can't prosecute them in ordinary criminal courts, so we had to create this new special trial process called the Military Commissions."
His conclusion as to why these Commissions were established is succinct and damning: "It's real simple. It's to launder evidence and convict people using evidence derived through coercion, in some cases torture, that could not support the basis for a criminal conviction in any US court or any court in the civilized world. That's what Military Commissions are about. And that is the legal framework of the U.S. War on Terror."
Having described in detail this glaring affront to the rule of law, he continues, "So as a matter of US law today, you as a Canadian or a Brit or anyone who is not a US citizen are worth less in terms of due process. If that offends you, it probably should."
At Guantanamo, Bill Kuebler has wrestled with disillusionment and eventually frustration, and now has some choice words reserved for the legal process established there, a process of which he is an increasingly dissenting part.
It is a process that has seen the concept of torture "narrowly redefined." It has seen rules of procedure and evidence invented on the fly to suit specific needs. ("They were able to sit around and say 'Gee, if the hearsay rule is A, we win. If the hearsay rule is B, we lose. Well, hmm, let's pick A', and that's the process we have in Guantanamo.")
It has seen people detained without charge for years and taken out of the usual criminal process. Because of the questionable evidence gathering methods, says Kuebler, "We can't prosecute them in ordinary criminal courts, so we had to create this new special trial process called the Military Commissions."
His conclusion as to why these Commissions were established is succinct and damning: "It's real simple. It's to launder evidence and convict people using evidence derived through coercion, in some cases torture, that could not support the basis for a criminal conviction in any US court or any court in the civilized world. That's what Military Commissions are about. And that is the legal framework of the U.S. War on Terror."
Having described in detail this glaring affront to the rule of law, he continues, "So as a matter of US law today, you as a Canadian or a Brit or anyone who is not a US citizen are worth less in terms of due process. If that offends you, it probably should."
https://www.mcgill.ca/reporter/40/05/kuebler/
herbie @ Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:28 am
$1:
You're standing up for a Convicted Terrorist who murdered a U.S. Medic, that speaks volumes about your lack of a moral compass, let that sink in.
No, he, some of us and the Supreme Court are standing up for YOU.
In case one day YOU find yourself the douchebag everyone hates and says deserves no rights or defense.
BRAH @ Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:06 am
________________
Truth!
GreenTiger @ Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:22 am
PluggyRug PluggyRug:
Some facts from Veterans for the CPC:
1. He was not a child soldier. The international standard that Canada and dozens of nations adhered to at the time clearly defined a child soldier as a person Under the age of 15. Khadr was 15 plus when captured. The age standard was amended in 2002 to under 18 but was not backdated.
2. His confession to killing Sgt Speer and severely wounding another US was not obtained under duress or torture, it came in a deposition taken by his defense lawyer. He stated that he refused to surrender when the offer came and instead after the other women and children left, fired his AK-47 until it was hit by a bullet and damaged. He reported that he was wounded and didn't hear any of the other brothers firing, so he believed he was the only one left alive but because of his wounds he would soon die. He had two grenades left and threw one which didn't work. He threw the second one and it exploded. He said he then passed out and when he awoke he was at a US military facility/hanger and was zap strapped to a stretcher.
3. After watching a fellow SF medic get killed and another get wounded the USSF soldiers still provided him with lifesaving medical aid according to the Geneva convention.
4. As noted above the US Military provided time for non-combatants to surrender, Khadr chose to fight.
5. The RCMP questioning began with a Happy Meal. It was hardly oppressive.
6. Khadr was never exposed to enhanced interrogation.
7. Khadr had a lawyer throughout his legal process and pled guilty by his own choice.
Canada owes this traitorous family nothing. While veterans are in court attempting to get issues resolved, while they are homeless and struggling with PTSD, while they wait months for their pensions, this terrorist cleans up and becomes a millionaire. Chretien was the PM when this began and Trudeau is now completing the payoff.
1. He was not a child soldier. The international standard that Canada and dozens of nations adhered to at the time clearly defined a child soldier as a person Under the age of 15. Khadr was 15 plus when captured. The age standard was amended in 2002 to under 18 but was not backdated.
2. His confession to killing Sgt Speer and severely wounding another US was not obtained under duress or torture, it came in a deposition taken by his defense lawyer. He stated that he refused to surrender when the offer came and instead after the other women and children left, fired his AK-47 until it was hit by a bullet and damaged. He reported that he was wounded and didn't hear any of the other brothers firing, so he believed he was the only one left alive but because of his wounds he would soon die. He had two grenades left and threw one which didn't work. He threw the second one and it exploded. He said he then passed out and when he awoke he was at a US military facility/hanger and was zap strapped to a stretcher.
3. After watching a fellow SF medic get killed and another get wounded the USSF soldiers still provided him with lifesaving medical aid according to the Geneva convention.
4. As noted above the US Military provided time for non-combatants to surrender, Khadr chose to fight.
5. The RCMP questioning began with a Happy Meal. It was hardly oppressive.
6. Khadr was never exposed to enhanced interrogation.
7. Khadr had a lawyer throughout his legal process and pled guilty by his own choice.
Canada owes this traitorous family nothing. While veterans are in court attempting to get issues resolved, while they are homeless and struggling with PTSD, while they wait months for their pensions, this terrorist cleans up and becomes a millionaire. Chretien was the PM when this began and Trudeau is now completing the payoff.
I'm given to under stand that the PM made a comment that if you kill a terrorist that they win. I guess you you appologize for the previous government calling this terrorist a fink, compensate him for time lost and hurt feeling to the tune of $10 Million that we won that this is good thing for humanity.
Don't expect that the terrorists will do the same.
Freakinoldguy @ Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:29 am
Sunnyways Sunnyways:
BRAH BRAH:
You're standing up for a Convicted Terrorist who murdered a U.S. Medic, that speaks volumes about your lack of a moral compass, let that sink in.
He allegedly killed a US soldier in a war.
Alleged?
$1:
Omar Khadr threw a grenade with the intent of killing as many Americans as he could and told interrogators he felt happy that he had killed a U.S. soldier, according to a statement of facts agreed to by Khadr himself.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/khadr-thre ... s-1.871947
And even if his testimony was garnered under illegal circumstances which it wasn't, why did he agree to the "kill all Americans" part statement if he didn't feel that way? He could have just as easily have said he admitted to killing them without any embellishment.
Freakinoldguy @ Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:33 am
Finally some good news in this case.
$1:
Lawyer fights to send Khadr settlement money to Speer widow, wounded soldier
TORONTO — The lawyer for the widow of an American soldier killed in Afghanistan said Tuesday they have filed an application so that any money paid by the Canadian government to a former Guantanamo Bay prisoner convicted of killing him will go toward the widow and another U.S. soldier injured.
Lawyer Don Winder made the comments as a decision by the Canadian government to apologize and give millions of dollars to Omar Khadr came under mounting criticism.
TORONTO — The lawyer for the widow of an American soldier killed in Afghanistan said Tuesday they have filed an application so that any money paid by the Canadian government to a former Guantanamo Bay prisoner convicted of killing him will go toward the widow and another U.S. soldier injured.
Lawyer Don Winder made the comments as a decision by the Canadian government to apologize and give millions of dollars to Omar Khadr came under mounting criticism.
http://www.metronews.ca/news/toronto/20 ... soner.html
Hopefully he's successful and the victims rather than the criminal get compensated but I won't hold my breath because Khadr and his lawyer will likely have the Supreme Court and PM's backing if he refuses to pony up.
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