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<strong>Title: </strong> <a href="/link.php?id=23974" target="_blank">Panhandlers' rights trump victim's</a> (click to view)

<strong>Category:</strong> <a href="/news/topic/18-law--order" target="_blank">Law & Order</a>
<strong>Posted By: </strong> <a href="/modules.php?name=Your_Account&op=userinfo&username=Hyack" target="_blank">Hyack</a>
<strong>Date: </strong> 2007-08-15 09:22:56
<strong>Canadian</strong>

   

This isn't about homelessness or beggars but 4 people murdering one. It can't be agravated assault either because the one dead person didn't agravate the 4 murderers.

   

Ridenrain,

Aggravated assault doesn't mean the assaulter was provoked. Its actually a very serious charge meaning the asaultee was permanently maimed or similar.

However, I think this IS about homelessness and begging. The 4 bums fought and murdered this guy from St. Catherine's because he wouldn't donate what they believed to be a sufficient sum.

Here's the solution: Gather up all the homeless and the beggars and confine the panhandling to a specific zone in Toronto...I'm thinking Regent Park. Anybody caught panhandling, defined as the unlicenced direct or indirect solicitation of cash or goods in a public place for the benefit of a person or persons directly or indirectly, commits a provincial offence and is whisked away to jail.

This way, poverty activists can't claim that the beggars in Toronto are forbidden from panhandling, those that wish to donate their money to beggars can locate them to do so and those that wish to walk unmolested, or fucking stabbed for that matter, can live their life unimpeded by them.

Once in jail, lazy fucking bums can be dealt with by the social dogooders and the mentally ill bums can be dealt with under the Mental Health Act and committed to recommissioned asylums. Druggies can wander out of jail the next day and resume wasting their lives in the panhandling zone, but if they stray, wham, back into jail they go.

If Toronto is serious about cleaning up its panhandling problem, its going to need a place to put these people. Since the province closed down the old insane asylums, Ontario should be on the hook for the bill of recommissioning them. It'll cost money, but the problem can be fixed.

   

Typical fucking bullshit. I'm not responsible........... mommy smoked, daddy drank, I wasn't given enough attention as a child and the litany of excuses for abhorent behaviour goes on and on and fucking on.

It's time people became responsible for their own actions, most of the people my age grew up in homes where the belt was the main source of discipline, both parents drank, smoked and attention was where your father grabbed you by the scruff of the neck prior to reading you your horoscope for screwing up. Yet for some strange reason we turned out as a whole to be alot better behaved, more respectful of others than the "entitled" generations that followed.

This country has gone to hell in a hand cart under the guise of a "Just Society". If Canada is a Just Society could someone please tell me why you can murder a person with basic impunity while legions of left wing do gooders come out of the wood work, to valiantly defend your actions as a poor excuse for a human being, while the victim who has no recourse, lies stone dead on a cold slab?

   

Better yet, open a work camp and then cut off social services to all those who don't do at least something at the camp in appreciation of the largesse of the society that tolerates and feeds them. Those bums who lift themselves up and get jobs can return to society, the remainder can stay safely where they are and receive proper supervision and, since this is Canada we're talking about here, proper healthcare, as well.

   

I have no doubt you know this already...

Because the "nanny state" is destroying the concept of personal accountability. We are blaming "society" when we should be blaming "individuals". I'm so fricken sick of the whole "NO!!! Its not Jimmys fault he likes to burn cats alive (or some other inheritantly wrong behavior), its the fault of SOCIETY."

Bullsh*t.

   

You hit the proverbial nail on the head.

   

I thought aggravated assault covered fights that resulted in injury or fatalities.
(Bugger to find a definition of this.)

Less so the charges but more the actual crime. Isn't Aggravated Assault a lesser charge though?
I believe it didn't really matter what the "occupation" of the agressors was but that 4 mugges and murdered one.

   

There's a heirarchy of assault charges:

1. Assault. Black eye, bloody nose, split lip etc.
2. Assault Causing Bodily Harm. Knocked out a tooth, broken bone etc.
3. Aggravated Assault: Missing limb, severe burns, permanent disfigurement.
4. Manslaughter: Fucker died.

Assault with a weapon automatically starts at Causing Bodily Harm and can include Aggravated Assault with a Weapon if you use a machete to hack somebody's hand off. Sexual assault has the same classifications as assault, but obviously, the sexual component of the crime exists where it doesn't in normal assault.

   

But since the guy died, wouldn't this move towards murder instead?

I know in BC, the police are always saying we have a small group that continue to re-offend and we can't learn that they will never pay fines, do parole or stop.
I always thought when you were on parole, if you committed another crime, that original crime could be re-opened, allong with the new one. Can't we finally jail someone who has a thousand petty crimes?

   

The Crown's position to move to second degree murder is that they would have to prove that the bums intended for the person to die or had such wanton disregard for his life that his death was a foreseeable cause.

I think they're interviewing witnesses to determine if there's sufficient reasonable doubt as to the victim's actions in provoking the bums. If he attacked them, they can claim self-defence and walk away from the charge of second degree murder. If witnesses say the bums jumped him with a knife, I don't see what other outcome you can imagine other than death when actively stabbing somebody so the charge would most likely stick.

   

This is what years of left wing social engineering is leading us too. Right down the path to the shitter.

Nanny state in-deed! At least the yanks call an apple an apple and not the gay misunderstood cousin's former roommate. Take some responsibility, take a stand and do whats right. Like that 11Yo kid in TO who was gunned down at 1 in the morning. WHERE THE FUCK WERE HIS PARENTS? WHY WAS HE OUT THAT LATE ?

GAWD! (in my BEST Napoleon Dynamite voice)

   

As someone who actually has been on the street (in Toronto), I know how fucking obnoxious people can get towards you (yes, I've even had thoughts of stabbing one person when he tried to start a fight with me.) But really, whether or not your homeless and drunk or not, murder is murder. Even if your drunk you should know what you're doing is wrong. I've been able to tell right from wrong when I'm drunk. And on top of it, they weren't even Canadians. They were from America. So some American youths com to Canada to be homeless and kill a guy and we should have mercy on them???

   

well said mdisna...

   

So the tax payers get to pay for them while they get their three meals a day and a nice little cell? I'm sure they would welcome spending some time in there. How is gaol even a punishment if you are begging on the street and sleeping on it? To even keep one inmate in gaol it costs taxpayers $70,000 a year.

I liked Bart's suggestion of work camps if we are going to have to pay to keep them anyway they might as well do something back in return. Ontario stated they wanted to plant a bunch of trees why not get the prisoners to do it? If their is trash on the 401 send out the chain gangs. Graffiti in your town? Send them out to paint over it. Rubbish strike in Vancouver? Round them all up to clean.

The work they do probably will never make up for the cost of them to be in prison but at least it would pay part of their way. Also would get them working and maybe they would get some self respect from it.

   

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