Photo radar under review by Alberta government
BeaverFever @ Fri May 12, 2017 7:32 pm
housewife housewife:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Parking tickets are right there waiting for you when you get back. The lesson is instant, not delayed.
And if parking is affecting public safety, you get towed.
The asshole driving closer to me than I'd comfortably park, while we are driving at 110km/h isn't getting a photo radar ticket, nor will he get instruction on why what he's doing is very dangerous. Having actual traffic cops is essential to changing people's driving habits. Something they claim photo radar will accomplish.
When I was a kid my dad used to drive rallies. He had a switch installed on the dash that set off the brake lights so it only looked like he slowed for the turn. I dream of having one when driving any of the highways around here. It's crazy how close they get
If he was really entrepreneurial he would've had a switch that turned his brake lights OFF when he's being tailgated on the drive home.
bootlegga @ Fri May 12, 2017 7:45 pm
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Like every other one of these exercises, the premise is flawed. Unless you immediately get pulled over and issued a ticket, your behaviour won't change. Therefore, it's not about safety, it's a cash cow.
Witness the city where I live just put sensors in every direction at every major intersection to catch you speeding, red light violations and turn on red violations. And you get a ticket a month after the fact! That doesn't change habits except by monetary loss for the vehicle owner, not the driver. Cash cow!
Witness the city where I live just put sensors in every direction at every major intersection to catch you speeding, red light violations and turn on red violations. And you get a ticket a month after the fact! That doesn't change habits except by monetary loss for the vehicle owner, not the driver. Cash cow!
I gotta say, I'm kinda surprised that you of all people thinks photo radar is a cash cow when there are lots of studies showing it increases safety.
https://www.edmonton.ca/transportation/ ... cement.pdf
https://transformingedmonton.ca/researc ... ads-safer/
$1:
Most significantly, it found that the number of injury collisions was trending downward as a result of a combination of factors including photo radar enforcement.
In 2009, the City of Winnipeg hired the Traffic Injury Research Foundation to do an assessment no only of its photo radar program but also its red light camera program.
The researchers also considered other traffic safety measures, such as increasing the time on yellow lights.
The study concluded that, while further research was needed on some aspects of the safety program, “a consensus exists among a majority of researchers that photo enforcement is an effective safety measure.”
This issue has been studied in other countries as well. In France, between 2003 (when photo radar was introduced) and 2010, the number of traffic fatalities dropped by 40 per cent and the average speed of vehicle dropped from 90 kph to under 80 kph.
In Australia, the average reduction of severe collisions attributable to photo radar enforcement is estimated to be 32 per cent.
In the United States, a study on the effectiveness of photo radar reported in the Road Injury Prevention and Litigation Journal found that average speed in areas of photo radar deployment dropped by 5.1 to 5.8 miles per hour.
In short, the evidence showing that photo radar is effective in reducing serious traffic collisions is clear and overwhelming.
In 2009, the City of Winnipeg hired the Traffic Injury Research Foundation to do an assessment no only of its photo radar program but also its red light camera program.
The researchers also considered other traffic safety measures, such as increasing the time on yellow lights.
The study concluded that, while further research was needed on some aspects of the safety program, “a consensus exists among a majority of researchers that photo enforcement is an effective safety measure.”
This issue has been studied in other countries as well. In France, between 2003 (when photo radar was introduced) and 2010, the number of traffic fatalities dropped by 40 per cent and the average speed of vehicle dropped from 90 kph to under 80 kph.
In Australia, the average reduction of severe collisions attributable to photo radar enforcement is estimated to be 32 per cent.
In the United States, a study on the effectiveness of photo radar reported in the Road Injury Prevention and Litigation Journal found that average speed in areas of photo radar deployment dropped by 5.1 to 5.8 miles per hour.
In short, the evidence showing that photo radar is effective in reducing serious traffic collisions is clear and overwhelming.
http://www.leducrep.com/2016/09/19/phot ... oads-safer
raydan @ Fri May 12, 2017 7:52 pm
I don't really care if it's a cash cow... stupid people putting money in the coffers, what could be better? 
BeaverFever @ Fri May 12, 2017 8:27 pm
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Coach85 Coach85:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
The duty of government is to protect the citizens. Photo radar does nothing to protect anyone, or change driving habits. Knowing that certain intersections have sensors that will send you a bill in a month is incentive to slow down in those intersections - but everywhere else is a free for all.
The government isn't protecting me while issuing a parking ticket either, but it's a tax on the ignorant.
"stupid" taxes are fine with me. If you know it's a photo-radar zone and you rip through it, that's on you.
Parking tickets are right there waiting for you when you get back. The lesson is instant, not delayed.
And if parking is affecting public safety, you get towed.
The asshole driving closer to me than I'd comfortably park, while we are driving at 110km/h isn't getting a photo radar ticket, nor will he get instruction on why what he's doing is very dangerous. Having actual traffic cops is essential to changing people's driving habits. Something they claim photo radar will accomplish.
Traffic cops and conventional radar traps don't work because they're usually not at the same location every day so motorists get caught ny surprise and aren't expecting them to be there. You might rip down the same road 364 days a year without incident then boom one day you're caught in a speed trap that wasn't there before and won't be there again for some time. When people say "photo radar doesn't work" they're mostly talking about photo radar used this same way -hidden at random, changing unannounced locations and used to catch unsuspecting motorists.
But if it was used in a fixed stretch of roadway, the same way road tolls are used, then EVERYONE would know when and where photo radar is in effect and they would slow down. A stranger might accidentally drive in a toll road once but nobody drives on the same toll road every day and is befuddled ad to why they keep getting billed.
Imagine if it were highly publicized that photo radar was installed every 500m along highway 2 between Calgary and Edmonton. Prominent signage at the on-ramps and along the highway remind you of this. You can also see the cameras conspicuously suspended over the highway. Are you still going to speed under them? If yes, I have no sympathy for you when the ticket comes.
Coach85 @ Fri May 12, 2017 8:51 pm
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Coach85 Coach85:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
The duty of government is to protect the citizens. Photo radar does nothing to protect anyone, or change driving habits. Knowing that certain intersections have sensors that will send you a bill in a month is incentive to slow down in those intersections - but everywhere else is a free for all.
The government isn't protecting me while issuing a parking ticket either, but it's a tax on the ignorant.
"stupid" taxes are fine with me. If you know it's a photo-radar zone and you rip through it, that's on you.
Parking tickets are right there waiting for you when you get back. The lesson is instant, not delayed.
And if parking is affecting public safety, you get towed.
The asshole driving closer to me than I'd comfortably park, while we are driving at 110km/h isn't getting a photo radar ticket, nor will he get instruction on why what he's doing is very dangerous. Having actual traffic cops is essential to changing people's driving habits. Something they claim photo radar will accomplish.
How does the parking ticket protect me? You mentioned nothing about a lesson, you said it was their duty to protect our safety and photo radar doesn't do that. I would argue that photo radar does more to increase safety than parking fines.
bootlegga @ Sat May 13, 2017 7:54 am
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
Traffic cops and conventional radar traps don't work because they're usually not at the same location every day so motorists get caught ny surprise and aren't expecting them to be there. You might rip down the same road 364 days a year without incident then boom one day you're caught in a speed trap that wasn't there before and won't be there again for some time. When people say "photo radar doesn't work" they're mostly talking about photo radar used this same way -hidden at random, changing unannounced locations and used to catch unsuspecting motorists.
But if it was used in a fixed stretch of roadway, the same way road tolls are used, then EVERYONE would know when and where photo radar is in effect and they would slow down. A stranger might accidentally drive in a toll road once but nobody drives on the same toll road every day and is befuddled ad to why they keep getting billed.
Imagine if it were highly publicized that photo radar was installed every 500m along highway 2 between Calgary and Edmonton. Prominent signage at the on-ramps and along the highway remind you of this. You can also see the cameras conspicuously suspended over the highway. Are you still going to speed under them? If yes, I have no sympathy for you when the ticket comes.
But if it was used in a fixed stretch of roadway, the same way road tolls are used, then EVERYONE would know when and where photo radar is in effect and they would slow down. A stranger might accidentally drive in a toll road once but nobody drives on the same toll road every day and is befuddled ad to why they keep getting billed.
Imagine if it were highly publicized that photo radar was installed every 500m along highway 2 between Calgary and Edmonton. Prominent signage at the on-ramps and along the highway remind you of this. You can also see the cameras conspicuously suspended over the highway. Are you still going to speed under them? If yes, I have no sympathy for you when the ticket comes.
The thing is that Edmonton DOES publish where it sets up photo radar locations (just not when):
https://www.edmonton.ca/transportation/ ... on_Map.pdf
If people are too lazy or dumb to look it up (1st hit on Google), then it's yet another reason not to have any sympathy for the leadfooted morons in this city.
And if you notice, a large number of them (if not most) are on high speed roadways where having a traditional cop standing in traffic to hand out tickets isn't very safe.
ShepherdsDog @ Sat May 13, 2017 8:58 am
For shits and giggles go by a photo radar intersection later in the evening, with a camera and set the flash on strobe.
Canadian_Mind @ Sat May 13, 2017 12:40 pm
bootlegga bootlegga:
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
Traffic cops and conventional radar traps don't work because they're usually not at the same location every day so motorists get caught ny surprise and aren't expecting them to be there. You might rip down the same road 364 days a year without incident then boom one day you're caught in a speed trap that wasn't there before and won't be there again for some time. When people say "photo radar doesn't work" they're mostly talking about photo radar used this same way -hidden at random, changing unannounced locations and used to catch unsuspecting motorists.
But if it was used in a fixed stretch of roadway, the same way road tolls are used, then EVERYONE would know when and where photo radar is in effect and they would slow down. A stranger might accidentally drive in a toll road once but nobody drives on the same toll road every day and is befuddled ad to why they keep getting billed.
Imagine if it were highly publicized that photo radar was installed every 500m along highway 2 between Calgary and Edmonton. Prominent signage at the on-ramps and along the highway remind you of this. You can also see the cameras conspicuously suspended over the highway. Are you still going to speed under them? If yes, I have no sympathy for you when the ticket comes.
But if it was used in a fixed stretch of roadway, the same way road tolls are used, then EVERYONE would know when and where photo radar is in effect and they would slow down. A stranger might accidentally drive in a toll road once but nobody drives on the same toll road every day and is befuddled ad to why they keep getting billed.
Imagine if it were highly publicized that photo radar was installed every 500m along highway 2 between Calgary and Edmonton. Prominent signage at the on-ramps and along the highway remind you of this. You can also see the cameras conspicuously suspended over the highway. Are you still going to speed under them? If yes, I have no sympathy for you when the ticket comes.
The thing is that Edmonton DOES publish where it sets up photo radar locations (just not when):
https://www.edmonton.ca/transportation/ ... on_Map.pdf
If people are too lazy or dumb to look it up (1st hit on Google), then it's yet another reason not to have any sympathy for the leadfooted morons in this city.
And if you notice, a large number of them (if not most) are on high speed roadways where having a traditional cop standing in traffic to hand out tickets isn't very safe.
I disagree with the concept of photo radar on high speed motorways. If it really is about safety, stick photo radar in school/park zones, on residential streets, and in high collision areas. Make it obvious that it is there. Leave the highways out of it.
BeaverFever @ Sat May 13, 2017 3:00 pm
Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:
bootlegga bootlegga:
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
Traffic cops and conventional radar traps don't work because they're usually not at the same location every day so motorists get caught ny surprise and aren't expecting them to be there. You might rip down the same road 364 days a year without incident then boom one day you're caught in a speed trap that wasn't there before and won't be there again for some time. When people say "photo radar doesn't work" they're mostly talking about photo radar used this same way -hidden at random, changing unannounced locations and used to catch unsuspecting motorists.
But if it was used in a fixed stretch of roadway, the same way road tolls are used, then EVERYONE would know when and where photo radar is in effect and they would slow down. A stranger might accidentally drive in a toll road once but nobody drives on the same toll road every day and is befuddled ad to why they keep getting billed.
Imagine if it were highly publicized that photo radar was installed every 500m along highway 2 between Calgary and Edmonton. Prominent signage at the on-ramps and along the highway remind you of this. You can also see the cameras conspicuously suspended over the highway. Are you still going to speed under them? If yes, I have no sympathy for you when the ticket comes.
But if it was used in a fixed stretch of roadway, the same way road tolls are used, then EVERYONE would know when and where photo radar is in effect and they would slow down. A stranger might accidentally drive in a toll road once but nobody drives on the same toll road every day and is befuddled ad to why they keep getting billed.
Imagine if it were highly publicized that photo radar was installed every 500m along highway 2 between Calgary and Edmonton. Prominent signage at the on-ramps and along the highway remind you of this. You can also see the cameras conspicuously suspended over the highway. Are you still going to speed under them? If yes, I have no sympathy for you when the ticket comes.
The thing is that Edmonton DOES publish where it sets up photo radar locations (just not when):
https://www.edmonton.ca/transportation/ ... on_Map.pdf
If people are too lazy or dumb to look it up (1st hit on Google), then it's yet another reason not to have any sympathy for the leadfooted morons in this city.
And if you notice, a large number of them (if not most) are on high speed roadways where having a traditional cop standing in traffic to hand out tickets isn't very safe.
I disagree with the concept of photo radar on high speed motorways. If it really is about safety, stick photo radar in school/park zones, on residential streets, and in high collision areas. Make it obvious that it is there. Leave the highways out of it.
Why leave the highways out of it?
Full disclosure: I'm someone who probably does 20 over the limit normally and 140 on hwy 401 (which, for the benefit of our non- GTA friends, has a limit of 100).
bootlegga @ Sat May 13, 2017 9:25 pm
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:
bootlegga bootlegga:
The thing is that Edmonton DOES publish where it sets up photo radar locations (just not when):
https://www.edmonton.ca/transportation/ ... on_Map.pdf
If people are too lazy or dumb to look it up (1st hit on Google), then it's yet another reason not to have any sympathy for the leadfooted morons in this city.
And if you notice, a large number of them (if not most) are on high speed roadways where having a traditional cop standing in traffic to hand out tickets isn't very safe.
https://www.edmonton.ca/transportation/ ... on_Map.pdf
If people are too lazy or dumb to look it up (1st hit on Google), then it's yet another reason not to have any sympathy for the leadfooted morons in this city.
And if you notice, a large number of them (if not most) are on high speed roadways where having a traditional cop standing in traffic to hand out tickets isn't very safe.
I disagree with the concept of photo radar on high speed motorways. If it really is about safety, stick photo radar in school/park zones, on residential streets, and in high collision areas. Make it obvious that it is there. Leave the highways out of it.
Why leave the highways out of it?
Full disclosure: I'm someone who probably does 20 over the limit normally and 140 on hwy 401 (which, for the benefit of our non- GTA friends, has a limit of 100).
If safety is your goal, then highways HAVE to be included, as studies have shown time and again that the faster the car, the more serious the collision.
If anything, the place to remove photo radar from is school zones and residential areas, because of the increased risk to pedestrians, drivers ticketed there should receive the maximum fine/demerits possible from an officer, not a camera.
BRAH @ Sun May 14, 2017 7:29 am
Photo radar is good for school zomes and residental neighborhoods but on roads where the speed limit is 80 km - 100 km, screw that.
DrCaleb @ Mon May 15, 2017 6:29 am
bootlegga bootlegga:
I gotta say, I'm kinda surprised that you of all people thinks photo radar is a cash cow when there are lots of studies showing it increases safety.
I don't believe the way Spruce Grove is doing it - sensors on traffic lights at known intersections - does anything for safety. We just get conditioned to not speed in those places. People who don't know about the sensors get tickets. Nothing is done to change behavior.
Police announced today that they've seen an increase in excessive speeding lately - up to 90km/h over posted limits on secondary highways and even gravel roads. How is photo radar making that safer?
DrCaleb @ Mon May 15, 2017 6:30 am
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
housewife housewife:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Parking tickets are right there waiting for you when you get back. The lesson is instant, not delayed.
And if parking is affecting public safety, you get towed.
The asshole driving closer to me than I'd comfortably park, while we are driving at 110km/h isn't getting a photo radar ticket, nor will he get instruction on why what he's doing is very dangerous. Having actual traffic cops is essential to changing people's driving habits. Something they claim photo radar will accomplish.
When I was a kid my dad used to drive rallies. He had a switch installed on the dash that set off the brake lights so it only looked like he slowed for the turn. I dream of having one when driving any of the highways around here. It's crazy how close they get
If he was really entrepreneurial he would've had a switch that turned his brake lights OFF when he's being tailgated on the drive home.
It's called a downshift, and it's just as dangerous as the tailgating.
DrCaleb @ Mon May 15, 2017 6:35 am
Coach85 Coach85:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Coach85 Coach85:
The government isn't protecting me while issuing a parking ticket either, but it's a tax on the ignorant.
"stupid" taxes are fine with me. If you know it's a photo-radar zone and you rip through it, that's on you.
"stupid" taxes are fine with me. If you know it's a photo-radar zone and you rip through it, that's on you.
Parking tickets are right there waiting for you when you get back. The lesson is instant, not delayed.
And if parking is affecting public safety, you get towed.
The asshole driving closer to me than I'd comfortably park, while we are driving at 110km/h isn't getting a photo radar ticket, nor will he get instruction on why what he's doing is very dangerous. Having actual traffic cops is essential to changing people's driving habits. Something they claim photo radar will accomplish.
How does the parking ticket protect me? You mentioned nothing about a lesson, you said it was their duty to protect our safety and photo radar doesn't do that. I would argue that photo radar does more to increase safety than parking fines.
Ever see people parked in fire lanes? Ever see what happens in residential areas where streets are too narrow for parking, but people park anyway? Ever see what happens when fire trucks or ambulance can't access the scene because of how people are parked?
My buddy who is an EMT, and other ones who are on fire departments tell me horror stories all the time. Parking seems like such a minor violation, and most of the time it is, until it puts lives in danger.
BeaverFever @ Mon May 15, 2017 7:01 am
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
It's called a downshift, and it's just as dangerous as the tailgating.
That's the joke - you get rear-ended and cash in because the other driver will always be found at fault.