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two times by two persons........now what is the total population of Canadian Muslims? numbers?

   

Oh for sure, it's condemned here, I'm talking about Islamic nations.

   

Agree, forbid these maniacs from holding office, deny them party status. Round them up. Strike down the laws that enable them. Separate Church and State.

   

Was it because the Tamils are Hindu? No, it wasn't.
That's great. I'm glad to see that. What are they doing to stop extremism in their communities? What are your security forces doing to shut down terrorist cells and camps in your country?
Nope, I didn't, read it again.
I think the terrorists are doing that enough. Also ironic when you're doing the same thing with the Tamils, that weren't fighting for anything based on religion, but you're bringing religion into it. Pot calling kettle black much?

America propped up the Taliban in the 80s. ISIS started in Iraq in 2004 as a response to the American occupation. I'm not sure how they're propping up ISIS. Why do they think America has propped up ISIS?
Why is the safety of Israel a problem?
Got a source on that one?

So they shouldn't try to stop hostilities in Afghanistan? Hell I'm not sure I even agree with peace talks with that filth. But I'm sure some of the allies felt the same way about the Germans.
Wow.
You literally had Osama Bin Laden living in your country. You have defeated jack shit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist ... an_in_2018

Lots of terror attacks for a country that has "defeated terrorism".
Are your nukes so insecure that ragtag groups could take them from you?

And I'm not suure what you mean by "bearing all casualties". Are you trying to say that allied forces deployed to afghanistan didn't suffer casualties?

You literally had a bombing last month that killed 13 people. The fuck are you talking about?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Lahore_bombing



You equate harbouring with negotiating?
Bullshit. Any group of people that throws acid onto young girls for going to school are textbook terrorists. You can fuck right off with that bullshit.

What accusations? I haven't accused you of anything other than what is demonstrated.
I agree. We shouldn't be attacking everyday muslims. We should be attacking people who commit horrible crimes against humanity. The problem is those people insult your religion by doing so. More than any western entity could do.

   

That's the most important part. You look at any country that doesn't have a separation of church and state, and they're likely one of the most backwards places on the planet. And that's true of any religion. If we didn't have a separation of Christianity in the west, our countries would be significantly worse off.

   

May be, it was...

Many Muslim extremist organizations also claim they want foreign presence on their soil and hence decide to fight....so how come religion came into this?

Pakistani and Indian troops shell each other on regular basis while chanting their religious slogans....so what does that mean? are they fighting for religion? Nope.



Name terrorist cell? name the camp, where it is located? I told you how we pushed them back to Afghanistan and yet you are on your bullshit crap? Do foreign army chiefs are mad when they laud our efforts and seek Pakistani expertise in fighting insurgencies?



What does that mean?

Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran etc are seen as complicit in these activities because these people operate underneath your noses.



I was just trying to draw parallel....Didn't meant to say that Tamils fought for Hinduism ONLY, that was just a part of their larger war ambitions....I am trying to make you understand that despite Tamils also had Hindu factor in fighting, how Hinduism was not blamed while Islam is being blamed by a well orchestrated campaign i.e calling it Islamic extremism, Islamists etc



Did you know Alqaeda was also supported by US against Soviet Union? So, what's the big deal in understanding that Americans are again propping ISIS up to counter Taliban...Divide and Rule classic. Can't fight Taliban, ok, how about bring another militia to counter them? This is the American thinking....

Last month, the Taliban unleashed an attack on ISIS forces in Afghanistan's Kunar province and claimed to seize control in a majority of districts ...

https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Taliban-ISIS-aligned-fighters-engage-in-deadly-Afghanistan-clashes-587554

Even Indians, somewhat aligned with US are reporting it....How do you think so many ISIS fighters popped up in Afghanistan out of nowhere unless being transported in helicopters/jets from Middle East to Afghanistan. Game is way too dirty for average mind to comprehend.

Former Afghan President Hamid Karzai had once told al-Jazeera television news network that the US is colluding with Daesh in Afghanistan, and allowing the Takfiris to flourish in his conflict-stricken country.

“In my view, under the full [US] presence, surveillance, military, political, intelligence, Daesh has emerged. And for two years, the Afghan people came, cried loud about their suffering, of violations. Nothing was done,” he said.

Karzai further noted that US officials used Daesh as an excuse to drop an 11-ton GBU-43 Massive Ordnance Air Blast (MOAB) bomb, nicknamed the ‘Mother of all Bombs’, in Achin district of Afghanistan’s eastern province of Nangarhar on April 13, 2017.

There are allegations that an estimated 10,000 members of the Takfiri terrorist group were present in Afghanistan, and that their number was growing. Afghanistan’s neighbours are worried over this development.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/us-military-allegedly-promoting-isis-in-afghanistan/articleshow/68986884.cms




No problem at all....It is you guys who moan when terrorist attack or refugee flow begins towards them....

You refused to remove the grievances of other party and when they fight back or get radicalize you call them "terrorist" ???

Do Israelis really think by putting whole region on fire, they will be okay? What goes round, comes around.

Safety which is built on lies of yours and their elite?





U.S. government documents obtained through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) and recently posted on the website of the George Washington University National Security Archive shed some additional light on talks with the Taliban prior to the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, including with regard to the repeated Taliban offers to hand over Osama bin Laden.

https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/09/20/newly-disclosed-documents-shed-more-light-on-early-taliban-offers-pakistan-role/




Good, negotiations should be done...I was just pointing out, in general sense, that same people who accuse us of supporting/harboring Taliban are same who are dying to have peace deal with Taliban...



If the average western fellow had any sense in his head, your governments wouldn't had been able to topple so many countries around the planet...It is easy to manipulate you, at least government demonstrates that.



Death toll has significantly reduced...Fighting is in last stages. Fencing on Iran/Afghanistan border is in full swing...Tourists are flogging in....

British Airways has just resumed its flight to Pakistan as of now...Yes, I will say.

We have DEFEATED terrorism...

No organized terrorist organization is there in Pakistan.

Random Terrorist incidents can happen anywhere...It happened in Canada, France and just in Australia.

Terrorists cells are everywhere, right in our societies. You never knows from where you'll get the news next.



No, our nukes were never that unsafe....It was the talk by western analysts who were predicting gloom and doom on Pakistan back in those days.

Pakistani losses in terms of life losses and economy are far more than combined Nato losses.

We hosted thousands of Afghan refugees two times.....at the time of soviet attack and at American attack. Crime rate got increased.



Answered above.



Pakistan doesn't harbor any fucker, intentionally. OBL saga was best explained by Mr. Musharraf.

Musharraf defended ISI & Insulted CIA infront of whole audience






Agreed.



Nothing was demonstrated.



hmm...can agree with this. But problem is way too deep to lay blame to other community. Your government hands are dirty in this as well.

   

Who cares? One thing oppressive and authoritarian regimes all have in common, is suppression of the media. Do they even know an event like that one Bart quoted with a right wing spin even occurred? (Guy running people in Edmonton down with a van) I wouldn't expect them to condemn anything, let alone things they wish they had done themselves.

I'm more concerned about the people in the west, because they are the targets of the backlash the alt-right stirs up.

   

Because this is a thread about a Pakistan Prime Minister.

   

A quick search shows him condemning everything that comes up, from Kashmir to New Zealand.

'Terrorism does not have a religion': Pakistan condemns New Zealand mosque shootings

   

That's great, it's a good start. And Pakistan has done a lot in rooting out problems within their own country. I hope they can work with their neighbours to do the same thing.

   

I wish them well too, but I don't see countries like Afghanistan and Iran shaping up any time soon. And India looks to be sliding a bit too.

Until they put Country before Religion, like we in the 'west' did, then they will continue to operate from the disadvantage that religion has towards democracy.

   

You just answered your own question. "Muslim Extremist Organizations". They literally identify themselves based on their religion.
So when a bombing happens and the group that takes responsibility for it says they did it in the name of Allah, that's not religiously motivated?

You've minimized threats posed to Pakistan. Can you say your government has done a good job of stopping cells that attack India and Afghanistan?

How about the Jaish-e-Mohammed? That you security forces propped up to cause mayhem in Kashmir the same way the Americans did with the Taliban in Afghanistan?
I've bolded the important part. It's a comment on perception, not culpability.

Then I don't think you know what a parallel is.

Except it wasn't.

Because it didn't have a factor. It was racially motivated, not religiously motivated.
So your proof, is that in an area that has had infighting for hundreds of years has infighting between two groups, so one (or both?) must be propped up by the U.S. Government.

Sorry bud, that's just as moronic as comparing Japan to terrorism.
The distance from Syria to Afghanistan is about 2700 KM. They can't drive? Why do they need helicopters and jets?
You're going to quote Karzai? The guy is a loony. Try harder.

Terrorism towards Israel, (and any other country) is a bad thing. So yes, we will call it out when it happens.
Why do you insist on grouping westerners together while simultaneously getting mad about Muslims being grouped together? Israel is one of the most controversial topics in North America. Many feel the same way that you do, that they are committing crimes in Palestine that they must answer for.


Lets dive into some aspects of that article.

Remember when I said that Pakistan is seen as complicit in supporting terrosim?


That doesn't help.

You also completely misrepresent what that is saying. There were talks of handing him over, but because the U.S. wouldn't allow him to be tried in a Muslim country, they refused to hand him over. Asking for him to be tried in an Islamic country was intentional, they knew fully that the U.S. would never agree to that, because it's fucking stupid.



Dying to have peace seems like an over exaggeration. I think they're hoping to stabilize things. However, saying "hey, we won't kill you if you don't kill them" is not the same as "Hey, take up residence in our country, we will feed you intelligence and funding and provide training". If you can't see the difference, then perhaps it's too complicated for the average Pakistani mind.

Just so we're clear, it's okay to insult the majority of the Western world by calling us all stupid, but we aren't allowed to do that to Islam? Just want to make sure I nail down your hypocrisy.

I don't think you understand the meaning of the word defeated. Almost 600 people were killed in your country by terrorist attacks last year, by no measure is that defeated.
ROTFL That's some Pakistan propaganda right there. We can't even say that in Canada and the US.
Sure they can. We haven't had one in over a year, and it was some loner. If you've "defeated" terrorism. We've super defeated it I guess.
But you just said there are not terrorist organizations in Pakistan.

So he who loses most is the only one that loses?



So you don't harbour Jaish-e-Mohammed?So his response is that the USA missed an attack planned on their soil, Pakistan shouldn't be looked at with suspicion when the worlds most wanted man lived in the country?

That's called deflection, and not an answer to the question.


Good. Then the Taliban are terrorists.

[/quote]My government? Tell me what my government has done against Muslims.

   

Okay I think you meant to say ".... also claim they DON'T want foreign presence......"

If that is what you meant to say your statement makes a lot more sense.

   

You are right...I did a mistake over there

My government? Tell me what my government has done against Muslims.[/quote]

1. They may claim they are Muslim but they are not....Anyone doing unlawful killing, harming civilians, has no place in Islam.

Muslim scholars, in their fatwa, don't consider them Muslims.

Everyone needs to read this...I even disagree with term "Islamist" since it will unknowingly make people believe that Islam is problem....Need to have another term for these assholes.

Whoever they pigs are serving, they are not serving Islam.

https://arts.unimelb.edu.au/national-centre-for-contemporary-islamic-studies/welcome/community-engagement/national-imams-consultative-forum/rulings-and-statements

https://theconversation.com/why-the-media-needs-to-be-more-responsible-for-how-it-links-islam-and-islamist-terrorism-103170

2. If a group claims that they built 10 buildings in 1- seconds? would you believe that? How about not accepting group's claim at face value? What is the reason to believe them blindly?

3. Afghanistan? that country is mired in civil war for decades...Pakistan doesn't need to do anything to attack over there. Their own tribal factions are enough....Had we been attacking there, we would not be fencing Afghan border. Fact is its other way round, Pakistan is being attacked from Afghanistan. Fencing will soon complete.

The fencing work on Pakistan-Afghanistan border will be completed by the end of 2019, said the Pakistan Army's spokesperson

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1867668/1-pak-afghan-border-fencing-completed-end-2019-dg-ispr/

Pakistanis did intervened in Kashmir militarily in Musharraf era but not anymore afterwards....Trouble in Kashmir is is due to India's discriminatory policies against Kashmiri population....Indians themselves have so many insurgencies.

The Gadchiroli Naxal attack on anti-Naxal forces killed 15 personnel and a civilian driver when an IED was triggered by the banned outfit.

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/gadchiroli-naxal-attack-maoists-burned-26-vehicles-as-a-trap-to-target-security-forces-1515892-2019-05-03

Do you know this guy, btw? He was Indian spy/terrorist which we caught red handed.




4. ok...

5. ok

6. yes, it became later part of larger war ambition.

7. It was racially motivated and to some extent made casualty of religious places...Yet world gave it a pass.


8. So, how the fuck ISIS managed to get into Afghanistan and hilariously they are attacking the group which is fighting US/NATO troops....ISIS is a new phenomena in Afghanistan.

9. Yes, they can drive but then they'll be exposed to attacks by hostile groups so they need a protective cover....C'mon? There is no direct land connection b/w Afghanistan and Syria/Iraq....too many countries in b/w....How the fuck they can drive in cars unless they want to get vaporized in between by border security forces of countries.

10. Yes, he is controversial but used to be US puppet...he was installed by US and he is accusing US of doing that...Must be some weight.

Pakistan, Iran, China and Russia have agreed for integrated efforts for rooting out Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) from Afghanistan for ensuring regional peace and to eliminate the terrorism from the region.

https://nation.com.pk/13-Jul-2018/pakistan-iran-china-russia-agree-to-carry-out-joint-efforts-against-isis

11. Do call out...fine and understandable but do see other side of picture as well. Don't be so quick to judge.

12. Agreed on Israel being controversial in NA...

13. Americans themselves do not consider Taliban as terrorists. lol

so no harm for Pakistan in supporting them against ISIS...

The U.S. State Department says high-level negotiations on peace in Afghanistan, led by U.S. Special Representative Zalmay Khalilzad, are still going on with the Taliban in Doha, Qatar. The timeline for a withdrawal of U.S. troops is a major focus. During a trip to Iowa Monday, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo referred to the U.S. talks with "the Taliban terrorists," though they are not on the State Department's list of foreign terror groups. VOA's diplomatic correspondent Cindy Saine reports.

https://www.voanews.com/a/4815371.html

On Thursday, the White House declined to refer to the Afghan Taliban as terrorists, saying that the group was instead an “armed insurgency. “

https://www.thecitizen.in/index.php/en/NewsDetail/index/5/2362/Shades-of-Terror-White-House-Says-Taliban-Are-Not-Terrorists-But-an-Armed-Insurgency


14. Taliban never said, OBL be trialed in Muslim country...

'We would be ready to hand him over to a third country,'' said Maulvi Abdul Kabir, the second in command to the Taliban's supreme leader, Mullah Muhammad Omar. ''It can be negotiated provided the U.S. gives us evidence and the Taliban are assured that the country is neutral and will not be influenced by the United States.''

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/15/world/nation-challenged-president-president-rejects-offer-taliban-for-negotiations.html

15. Musharraf actually created great parallel.....He literally meant that if it can be said that Pakistan hid bin Laden then it can also be said that CIA did 9/11....

16. Pakistani military has asked US to tell them where they think terrorist hideouts are....No answer was given by Americans. Pakistanis are people of this continent...This is our region. No one will dictate us what to do and what not to in our own neighborhood. Common Afghans don't like Americans. Simple is that. No need for outside hand. Americans doing collateral damage and continuing occupation is enough to generate retaliatory response from nation who never accepted foreign domination....British went home from Afghanistan, Russians went back too and history is any indicator, Americans will soon be packing their bags as well....but I really doubt they'll do that....presence in Afghanistan means, keeping a successful eye on CARs, Russia, China, Iran and may be on Pakistan....

17. Ok. No offense to common westerners. I take it back.

18. Death toll is significantly less compared to last years...Each passing year is good one compared to previous one. Why do you think Int'l companies are coming back? Yes, we have defeated terrorism...World acknowledges that...Some incidents here and there doesn't mean we failed...That's exactly terrorists want you to think. I am not over estimating but results are there to see. no one can finish off 100 percent...At best we can contain to maximum.

19. I think you misunderstood, there is no organized terrorist outfit in Pakistan with brick and mortar infrastructure on ground. Sleeper cells are found everywhere though.

20. Your losses are peanuts compared to what we suffered...Why don't you imagine country like Afghanistan being neighbor of Canada...you'll get the picture.

21. No, we don't harbor Jaish Mohammad now but we used to in 90s and early 2000s....Wanted to give India a reply of Siachen.

22. I mean Canada was part of western alliance who trained and armed same groups to fight off soviets which you are fighting now....Nothing against Canadians in particular.

Note: I find it easy to write that way otherwise so many quotes and further quotes confuse me

   

I believe you on that. The problem is that a lot of aspects from your religion that are mainstream, from a western perspective, is barbaric. It's not a far leap for people here to believe those people are devout muslims.


Fair point. So if they aren't doing it in the name of religion, why are they doing it?
And there is nothing in Pakistan that's jumping the other way?

Oh so pakistan propped up terrorist groups. Are you gonna continue to act holier than thou towards the USA doing the same thing?

They attacked religious places because they are easy targets, and the people oppressing them were all of the same religion. The Tamils themselves were not doing it in the name of Hinduism.

The fact that you're incapable of separating actions from religion, especially when there was never any claim that the religion is the motivating factor, is startling.

Have you heard of cars? NATO has been fighting ISIS in Syria for several years.
You know it's arguably easier to drive across a country undetected than fly? And you think the rank and file of the U.S. Military would willingly drop members of a group that's been killing their brothers in arms? No, I don't believe that for one second. Mainly, because you have literally zero evidence.




Canada does. Because they fucking are. The difference is we aren't trying to negotiate with them. If the U.S. were to declare them a terrorist organization, then it would make any sort of contact or negotiations significantly more difficult.
Also depends on which one you're talking about. The Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan ARE considered a terrorist organization by the USA. So either way, you're supporting a terrorist organization. Congratulations, way to finally admit it.


https://www.voanews.com/a/afghan-taliba ... 32453.html



To actually try to argue that the Taliban are not terrorists is baffling to me. That's the kind of shit that makes people over here look at Pakistan with concern.






That was in the link you provided. Is it not credible now?
That's not even remotely the same. Making that claims shows what a fucking moron Musharraf is.
I don't know what this is in response to.

If that's your definition of defeated, I think you better hope you never get into a war with India. That's a pretty defeatist definition.

World acknowledges. I see the Pakistan propaganda machine works on you.
Really?

Commander of the Islamic Revolution Guards Corps Major General Mohammad Ali Jafari seems to disagree with you.



http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13971203000497
Quite honestly, go fuck yourself. How dare you minimize the losses we had because the shitbags in your part of the world can't keep themselves in check. Just because every country over there seems to be run by petulant children, you are going to throw shade at Canada, and ignore the people we had die in that conflict?
Oh so propping up a terrorist organization is okay when Pakistan does it.
And your allied with countries that rape and brutalize women and children. That deprive people of basic human right in the name of a some fucking religion. That butcher journalists for speaking out against the government. So I guess it's okay to attribute that to you as well then?

   

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