Russia sends forces into Georgian (MERGED)
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CommanderSock @ Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:07 pm
$1:
So a number of things here: One is that the USA will be airlifting the 2,000 Georgian troops in Iraq back home. A possible confrontation could take place if the Russians shoot down or close on the transports who will be escorted by armed F-22 fighters staging out of Incirlik. Two is that the USA absolutely is supplying arms and manpower to the Georgians. Three is that this whole thing is Putin paying back the USA for dismantling their ally, Serbia, over their dire protests. The payback is that they are now dismantling our ally, Georgia, over our dire protests. What comes around goes around.
Bart, I wouldn't wish the USA be involved if I were a US citizen. This will weight heavily on the US taxpayer. This is a European matter, to be sorted out by Europe. If Europe cowers, then so be it. This is not America's war. America has learned hard through foreign intevention. Again, I re-iterate, let Europe sort this mess out, if they can't....Tisk Tisk!!
martin14 @ Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:10 pm
Zipperfish Zipperfish:
martin14 martin14:
It was American involvement in many parts of the world that kept the Soviets
from becoming too agressive in the past.
from becoming too agressive in the past.
And vice versa. The Americans, since the collapse of the former Soviet UNion, have been the world's sole superpower. But power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely--as Bush has been more than willing to demonstrate. I don't think a check on US expansionism is necessarily a bad thing.
if you truly prefer to have Chinese or Russian masters, you are welcome to it.
Me, i'll prefer the Americans, thanks
martin14 @ Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:13 pm
CommanderSock CommanderSock:
$1:
So a number of things here: One is that the USA will be airlifting the 2,000 Georgian troops in Iraq back home. A possible confrontation could take place if the Russians shoot down or close on the transports who will be escorted by armed F-22 fighters staging out of Incirlik. Two is that the USA absolutely is supplying arms and manpower to the Georgians. Three is that this whole thing is Putin paying back the USA for dismantling their ally, Serbia, over their dire protests. The payback is that they are now dismantling our ally, Georgia, over our dire protests. What comes around goes around.
Bart, I wouldn't wish the USA be involved if I were a US citizen. This will weight heavily on the US taxpayer. This is a European matter, to be sorted out by Europe. If Europe cowers, then so be it. This is not America's war. America has learned hard through foreign intevention. Again, I re-iterate, let Europe sort this mess out, if they can't....Tisk Tisk!!
, this is funny.. the Euros couldnt organize their way through a wet paper bag.Prediciton for the future.. Abkhazi is gone from Georgia,
Ossetia will go ala Kosovo, payback for that mistake.
What will be interesting is too see if the Russians replace the gov't in Georgia,
ala Iraq.. the pipelines are important.
CommanderSock @ Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:14 pm
$1:
if you truly prefer to have Chinese or Russian masters, you are welcome to it.
Me, i'll prefer the Americans, thanks
Me, i'll prefer the Americans, thanks
Having enough superpowers to keep each other in check is of course a nice theory. In reality, we end up with global massacres (see WW1, WW2, Cold war proxy wars)
CommanderSock @ Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:15 pm
$1:
, this is funny.. the Euros couldnt organize their way through a wet paper bag.
Prediciton for the future.. Abkhazi is gone from Georgia,
Ossetia will go ala Kosovo, payback for that mistake.
What will be interesting is too see if the Russians replace the gov't in Georgia,
ala Iraq.. the pipelines are important.
Prediciton for the future.. Abkhazi is gone from Georgia,
Ossetia will go ala Kosovo, payback for that mistake.
What will be interesting is too see if the Russians replace the gov't in Georgia,
ala Iraq.. the pipelines are important.
Why should America keep Europeans safe if Europeans can't keep Europe safe?
JustKate @ Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:19 pm
I keep thinking that maybe the Russian's are pushing through Georgia, bringing all their military power with them, to be able to assist Iran. That's the land route and Georgia is the only real road block. I know it sounds crazy, but what isn't crazy these days? we'll see. 
CommanderSock @ Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:21 pm
$1:
I keep thinking that maybe the Russian's are pushing through Georgia, bringing all their military power with them, to be able to assist Iran. That's the land route and Georgia is the only real road block. I know it sounds crazy, but what isn't crazy these days? we'll see.
What if Russia invades Iran? Who would seriously stop them?
JustKate @ Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:25 pm
CommanderSock CommanderSock:
$1:
I keep thinking that maybe the Russian's are pushing through Georgia, bringing all their military power with them, to be able to assist Iran. That's the land route and Georgia is the only real road block. I know it sounds crazy, but what isn't crazy these days? we'll see.
What if Russia invades Iran? Who would seriously stop them?
I don't think it will be an invasion at all. Have you not been following what's going on in the gulf. Russia/Iran are allies today.
Zipperfish @ Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:28 pm
martin14 martin14:
Zipperfish Zipperfish:
martin14 martin14:
It was American involvement in many parts of the world that kept the Soviets
from becoming too agressive in the past.
from becoming too agressive in the past.
And vice versa. The Americans, since the collapse of the former Soviet UNion, have been the world's sole superpower. But power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely--as Bush has been more than willing to demonstrate. I don't think a check on US expansionism is necessarily a bad thing.
if you truly prefer to have Chinese or Russian masters, you are welcome to it.
Me, i'll prefer the Americans, thanks
Are you taking lessons from Commander Kai? Where did I say that I preferred Russian or Chinese "masters"? Do try to pay attentiohn.
So you say you'd prefer American masters. I'd prefer none, which is one reason that I support a balancing of world power. Then again, I grew up under the Cold War, so I'm used to that particular geopolitical structure.
saturn_656 @ Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:29 pm
CommanderSock CommanderSock:
Tibet is part of China.
Tibet is only a part of China because the Chinese invaded and annexed them. One day people might parrot the "Gerogia is a part of Russia" line too once Georgia gets annexed.
JustKate @ Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:51 pm
Here's a map of the region and an article on the alliance between Russia and Iran. I'm thinking there is a bigger picture to all that's going on. Israel kinda got the go ahead from Condi Rice to do what it needs to do to Iran just recently. There is a huge military build up in the gulf ready. I could be all wet too and completely wrong. Hope I am. 
http://threatswatch.org/inbrief/2006/12 ... russia-co/
martin14 @ Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:53 pm
[/quote]
if you truly prefer to have Chinese or Russian masters, you are welcome to it.
Me, i'll prefer the Americans, thanks
Are you taking lessons from Commander Kai? Where did I say that I preferred Russian or Chinese "masters"? Do try to pay attentiohn.
So you say you'd prefer American masters. I'd prefer none, which is one reason that I support a balancing of world power. Then again, I grew up under the Cold War, so I'm used to that particular geopolitical structure.[/quote]
none... hmmmm, rather naive, to be polite.
the idea that the Americans would withdraw, and no one would rush to take their
place....
well, that dog just wont hunt.
so once we eliminate what is flat out not possible, we are left with
what is possible for a world order.
Zipperfish @ Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:57 pm
Here's an interesting quote from Putin in 2006:
$1:
"These people [Georgians] think that under the protection of their foreign sponsors they can feel comfortable and secure," intoned Russian President Vladimir Putin on Sunday in televised remarks. "Is it really so?"
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1542107,00.html
Zipperfish @ Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:01 pm
martin14 martin14:
none... hmmmm, rather naive, to be polite.
the idea that the Americans would withdraw, and no one would rush to take their
place....
well, that dog just wont hunt.
so once we eliminate what is flat out not possible, we are left with
what is possible for a world order.
No--no master is not possible. In the imortal words of Bob Dylan, "You gotta serve somebody." But a couple of big dogs intent upon scrapping it out keeps both of them in check, which has the desired effect. Again, the basic principle being power corrupts adn absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Bacardi4206 @ Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:42 pm
If all the countries that were suppose to shut down there nuclear piles of weapons actually did it, these threats wouldn't be as bad. However having U.S. vs Russia, both with a capable military tech and man power wise and both with WMD's including nuclear weapons.
If they ever got into a little 1 vs 1 fight, I surely hope neither side is stupid enough to launch them whatever the cost is. You can never tell with some countries and people behind them.
Last U.S. vs Russia face off ended pretty badly, was so very close to both countries launching there nukes at each other, so very close.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cF4p_pMfcs
Regarding that video, I had to post it for people to understand my next comment.
If human beings are ever making progress to a type 1 civilization, we are sure making shitty progress. I know this seems doomsday-ish but I got 20 dollars that human being idioticly kill each other off before we make this civilization advancement. I bet another 20 dollars that it happens in our life-time.
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