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The issue is that nobody is allowed to comment on immigrants committing crime without being branded a racist.

Those who think all immigrants are criminals are patently wrong but on the flipside, should we not be allowed to comment on immigrants that do commit crime?
Free speech seems to under threat at the moment.

It’s very strange that we can’t abide to even question immigrant populations that have a high proportion of people that commit criminal offences in Canada.

Should we not focus our attention on these countries by doing in-depth background checks to ensure we don’t allow criminals from there into Canada?

Really what is racist about trying to exclude criminals from our country?

Should we not have a say on who comes here or should we bow down to the special interest groups who are bent on getting a particular ethnic group in, despite negative repercussions to this country?

   

To prejudge is wrong on principal. These people are being called criminals because they are immigrants not because they are committing crime. The non sequitur here is that because some immigrants commit crime that ALL immigrants are prone to be criminals, that is an unjust bias.



Free speech is under threat? You just stated it is patently wrong. Where then is the threat?


You say it's wrong and now you say we should be able to say it as fair comment. What are you trying to say here?

Is implying all immigrants are prone to be criminals inherently biased or not?

   

I'm saying that we should be able to comment on what is going on in Canada without fear of the various HRC nazi's saying we can't comment on things because somebody has a different colour skin or isn't a Christian.

People can take the piss out of my English accent at work but can't do the same to a guy from Pakistan. Now why is that? All pigs are equal?

   

just about everyone in north America is an immigrant. only a few tribes can call them selves non immigrants.

   

The racist card gets way overplayed IMO.

It would be interesting to see what stats we were using to come up with these answers though. Are we simply looking at the number of immigrants who go through the courts each year, vs the "collective" number of people going through the courts? Or are we comparing the number of immigrants who go through the courts, vs the number of immigrants who came into the country?

I think if you looked at both perspectives that way you'd probably get a very different result.

Of course then you'd have to look at the "native born canadians" vs the country's 'native born population' which would be another interesting study to conduct. I imagine when you broke it down that way it'd probably be about equal.

It's a tough thing, Canada doesn't push integration the way that the US does and this is one area where I'd really have to say we fucked up. We only push integration into 'mainstream' society with the First Nations people in an attempt to get them to assimilate and give up their own culture and traditions, so that we can feel better about how we've "helped" them -- The rest of the immigrant groups though have entire communities across the greater Vancouver area, and they don't have to integrate, they can just move to Coquitlam if they're from Korea, and feel right at home. They can move to Surrey if they're from India, and feel right at home. They can continue speaking their language, doing all the stuff they do, and if some of that goes against the civil laws of Canada, well then they tend to play the 'I don't speak english" card and carry on their merry way.

Do a majority of them commit crimes? Horrible crimes no. Small crimes, hell yes a lot of them do. Are they aware of it? That's another question entirely, some of them probably don't even realize that what they're doing is wrong. I used to live in an apartment in Coquitlam, which is owned and operated and inhabited by Koreans. I was a minority and quite honestly there's a lot of stuff in the way that tower is operated, which goes against almost all the really important stuff in the BC Tenancy Act -- Do they care though? No. Oh well.

   

The whole issue is a red herring and comparing a segment of the population that had recently immigrated to Canada in order to find a new life, job, education and hope to the rest of the population that is already settled in and for the most part gainfully employed and already educated is inherently biased. The fact that no one is talking about that elephant in the room and yet seem to think calling all immigrants as potential criminals as fair comment is mind boggling.

Perhaps there is a need for reform but the case has not been made by this statement:

Don't tell me he's saying that 'culture' isn't Anglo-Saxon Catholic, we all know exactly what he is talking about here. This vitriol is garbage and he should be made to back down from such folly.

   

This has nothing to do with the fact that a disproportionate amount of crimes are being committed by immigrants. In the case of Toronto of late it seems to be Jamaican immigrants causing the trouble.

Acknowledging a fact is not prejudicial nor is it racist.

   

In Vancouver the Haitian gangs hang out by the skytrain. Does that mean that skytrian supports crime? That wouldn't be prejudicial either and follows the exact same logic that you have presented. That is to say none at all.

   

I agree with your sentiments scape. But having immigrants treated as a 'sacred cow' and allowing nil debate is just silly.
We should be able to air any problems and this will take away dubious arguments from the racists.
All I ask is that we are all treated equal.

   

Well EB I find the whole sacred cow bit (and I am not directing this at you btw) as doing more damage to the issue than it is in helping. See, now this issue is off track and had he stated exactly what it was he wanted to do in the way of reform then that would be beneficial. Instead he got off on a rant about culture that obscures the issue and turns it into an emotional firestorm. We both know not a dam thing will be done and it is only pandering to the people who are inclined to hear only what they want to hear anyway. We know for a fact that if you commit a crime and try to enter the country you can still get in and if you commit a crime in Canada once you are in it is a huge effort to arrest and then deport them. If he was talking about specifics about reforming that process and vetting immigrants then I would be applauding him but he didn't choose to go the rout did he? This is simple political pandering of the lowest quality, nothing more.

   

According to your statement then it would be true to say that Haitian gangs hang out by the Skytrain.

It also does not mean that the Skytrain supports crime although it would be logical to observe that it probably attracts crime.

   

So to follow the logical conclusion to your argument would be that skytrain is a part of the problem when in fact it has nothing at all to do with it. In the same way that some computer programmer here on a workers permit from Poland that works for IBM in Toronto that had a DUI is associated with the Jamaican gangs yet the repercussions recommended to deal with the Jamaican gangs under the umbrella of 'immigrant reforms' based on rhetoric of buzzwords of 'culture' and 'crime' would most certainly adversely effect the Polish computer programmer.

   

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