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I know some people have fought Statistics Canada for various "tin foil hat" type reasons, and have been slapped down pretty hard for their efforts. I'm not sure what effect a large group of concientious objectors would have.

   

I find this reply acceptable. I believe I will carry out my census without concern. Lockheed Martin's involvement is as dangerous as Microsoft's involvement with the census. Knowing Microsoft, perhaps less so.

   

We are far from reassured about safeguards to privacy.

But for the sake of argument, suppose the outsourcing to Lockheed Martin (Canada) could guarantee 100% confidentiality.

The fact that our Canada Census was contracted out under the free trade agreement to a subsidiary of a major U.S. armaments manufacturer, would be reason in itself for minimum cooperation with the May 2006 Canada Census.

Minimum cooperation with the census provides Canadians with a way of expressing their opposition to free trade, deep integration with the USA, and the erosion of Canadian sovereignty.

   

Please define "Minimum cooperation".

Thanks.


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"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden

   

Ok, list what you find acceptable about the reply point by point. In the comments to the article which I posted the link to above I listed what I objected to and why. Tell us what you think is acceptable and why, if you will.

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"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
(Albert Einstein)

   

Just what I stated above. Lockheed Martin will be a software supplier, nothing more. The way I understand it, no Lockheed Martin employee will come into contact with actual census data. If we got upset about that, we might as well be upset that our government uses Microsoft. (I actually don't like that, but that's another discussion.) In theory, nothing to worry about, right?

   

Minimum Cooperation is discussed at great length at<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.CountMeOut.ca">www.CountMeOut.ca</a> <br />
<br />
The entire website is built around minimum cooperation.

   

Wrong, Lockheed Martin will come into contact with the census data, you didn't read far enough into the comments.

---

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
(Albert Einstein)

   

While I don't like the idea that Lockeed Martin will be getting any money from Canada *at all* I think we have to be realistic here. LM is only one of a mitt full of detestable companies doing business in this country. If they are only supplying hardware, software and supervising the running of the same under the watchful eyes of the StatsCan employees (they won't be allowed to bring in any electronic equipment that they could use to remove the information from the StatsCan facilities) and they don't have access to the information then our privacy concerns have been addressed by StatsCan. If this is the case then there is no reason to make the guys at StatsCan any more miserable by not cooperating with the census.<br />
<br />
If you don't like the way these immoral corporations work then you should do something more productive than defacing census forms. That's just a waste of time and not likely to be understood by the StatsCan people or by government officials that can do something about your concerns. Besides when you look back on this in a few years would you really be very proud of yourself if all you did was just deface a government form instead of, say, sending a polite well thought out argument to your MP or to the Prime Minister to try and persuade them? Or you could volunteer for, or donate to, a NGO or political party that supports your position. Or you could write a critical argument to one of the mass media outlets. Or you could inform all your friends and family. Or do many other productive things.<br />
<br />
More can be read about the 2006 Census on the StatsCan website:<br />
<a href="http://www22.statcan.ca/ccr_r000_e.htm">http://www22.statcan.ca/ccr_r000_e.htm</a><br />
<br />
Another good thing about this year's census is that you will be able to<br />
do it on-line (more secure than paper in many ways):<br />
<a href="http://www22.statcan.ca/ccr_r002_e.htm">http://www22.statcan.ca/ccr_r002_e.htm</a><br />
<br />
Here's the StatsCan web page on the role of private contractors in the census:<br />
<a href="http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census06/info/outsource/outsourcing.cfm">http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census06/info/outsource/outsourcing.cfm</a><br />
<br />
Take care,<br />
/Alan<br />

   

Statistics Canada revamps census ad campaign to play down legal requirements <br />
DEAN BEEBY <br />
Sat Mar 25, 4:25 PM ET<br />
<br />
OTTAWA (CP) - Statistics Canada has revamped its advertising strategy for the May 16 census after a study found that Canadians got annoyed with proposed ads saying they're legally required to fill out census forms. That's a seismic shift from deferential attitudes a decade ago, when Canadians told pollsters they wanted to know all about their legal obligations to co-operate. <br />
<br />
<br />
A focus-group survey from last September, which questioned groups in Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver, found that draft ads reminding Canadians about the census law served only to provoke people.<br />
<br />
"When told about the legal requirement to complete the census, many participants were incredulous, and openly voiced the strong belief that such a law, if it exists at all, would be toothless, or devoid of any real possibility of sanction or penalty," says a survey report obtained by The Canadian Press.<br />
<br />
"This belief tends to erode the motivational effect of reminding people of this legal requirement."<br />
<br />
However, the survey by Patterson Langlois Consultants also found that participants were far more concerned about a pesky Statistics Canada worker knocking at the door should they fail to file their census forms.<br />
<br />
"While few participants attach any fear or motivational value to the threat of legal sanctions for failing to complete the census, the notion of this failure provoking a home visit was more widely considered a motivator."<br />
<br />
The finding has prompted changes in StatsCan's advertising campaign, which will kick into high gear in early May, says Dale Johnston, manager of census communications.<br />
<br />
The initial flurry of newspaper, radio and TV ads now will avoid mention of the legal requirement, she said in an interview. Instead, reference to the census law will be highlighted only in ads appearing after census day on May 16, to capture late filers.<br />
<br />
And the revamped ads will remind Canadians that persistent census staff will be contacting tardy households.<br />
<br />
Johnston said that for the 1996 census, focus groups indicated that knowing the legal requirement at the outset was important.<br />
<br />
"In '96, they wanted to know right up front," she said. "It was: 'Don't hide things from us. Tell us.' "<br />
<br />
But Canadians a decade later seem to question authority.<br />
<br />
"It might be less . . . of a civic responsibility," Johnston said, as Canadians are less inclined to "blindly" do things.<br />
<br />
The focus-group study also urged Statistics Canada to change the appearance of the envelopes containing the census forms distributed to every household in the country.<br />
<br />
The May census will be the first in which all Canadians can provide their answers on the Internet rather than on a paper form.<br />
<br />
Statistics Canada prefers Internet responses for efficiency, and expects about 20 per cent of households will use the web to file answers using passwords provided by the agency.<br />
<br />
But by distributing envelopes that don't make the Internet option clear, Statistics Canada may be inadvertently encouraging paper filing.<br />
<br />
"The appearance of this paper option in people's doorstep does appear to trigger a sort of ecological reflex that attaches some importance to not wasting paper, and occasionally some ambiguity about which option, Internet or paper, is the intended or preferred option from Statistics Canada's point of view," says the Patterson Langlois study. <br />
<br />
Johnston said wording has been added to the envelopes to encourage more Internet filing. She also said about 20,000 households will receive no paper forms at all, only a letter urging them to use the Internet, as part of an experiment to steer more people to the web. <br />
<br />
By 2011, she said, the agency expects the vast majority of census answers will be filed on the Internet rather than paper, and that most households will only receive letters providing their passwords. <br />
<br />
Statistics Canada has set aside $13 million for advertising for the May 16 census, including billboards, bookmarks, inserts in municipal tax bills, and ads on bags of sugar and milk cartons. <br />
<br />
Johnston says the saturation advertising, drawing on 2,000 participating organizations, is expected to expose each Canadian at least 40 times to information about the census. <br />
<br />
"When they're having breakfast, they'll see the census message there staring at them," she said. <br />
<a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20060325/ca_pr_on_na/census_scofflaw_1">http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20060325/ca_pr_on_na/census_scofflaw_1</a><br />
<br />
<p>---<br>These days, if you are not confused, you are not thinking clearly. Mrs. Irene Peters

   

Alan,

Did it ever occur to you that this may be one of the LAST resorts some of us are using after doing the many things you have listed as the more "productive" way of objecting to our governments way of doing our business.

And why are the StatsCan guys so miserable and how could this action make them more miserable? Nice try though.

---
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche

   

Well I'm certainly glad that you have used some of the more productive [yes that's a value judgement] ways of objecting to the use of Lockheed Martin (LM) in the production of the Census. I should hope that you haven't gotten to your last resort yet. <br />
<br />
As far as defacing your census I think that's only likely to annoy the bottom ranking census worker more than anything (probably just the average Joe who doesn't have a clue as to why the census is being defaced). Potentially if there are enough people objecting this way then it could ripple up through the hierarchy. However, if there are this many people willing to do something about it then it would make more sense for them to just hold onto their completed census forms until forced to give them up. This would really throw a wrench into the works.<br />
<br />
As far as the StatsCan guys being miserable I wasn't meaning to imply anything about their personality, only their workload. Sitting at a terminal transcribing thousands of census forms isn't my idea of a good time. I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that if we make their individual jobs more difficult by making the forms harder to deal with then they will be the ones mostly affected and likely more miserable.<br />
<br />
The intent of my email was to solicit answers more than anything. I don't see what the objective is here. Is it to object to LM doing work in Canada? Is it to object to an arms manufacturer doing civilian work? Is it to prevent any outside company from doing census work? Is it to object to NAFTA/FTA etc? What is the objective?<br />
<br />
From my perspective we have a much bigger problem in Canada then giving money and private information to a munitions manufacture. I think we are witnessing the germination of Fascism in the USA [no ... I'm not a conspiracy nut]. I've thought this for a number of years now but recently I've come across videos of both Robert Kennedy Jr. and Ralph Nader using that ugly "Fascist" word to describe their own government. <br />
<br />
Fascism, as defined in my American Heritage Dictionary, is: 1. A philosophy or system of government that advocates or exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with an ideology of belligerent nationalism. Obviously the right-wing Republicans are in charge in the USA now. I don't know if they constitute the 'extreme' right but they seem pretty extreme to me. There is also a merging of state and business leadership and a distinct and persistent trading of executives back and forth between the two groups. A good example of this is seen in the documentary "Future of Food"(<a href="http://www.thefutureoffood.com/">http://www.thefutureoffood.com/</a>) where Monsanto and the US government environmental agencies trade executives back and forth. Being Canadians I would hope we would all know a case of belligerent nationalism (Softwood Lumber). The only criterion left is 'dictatorship' and it seems to me that Greg Palast (<a href="http://www.gregpalast.com/">http://www.gregpalast.com/</a>) has nailed that one with voting debacles in the 2000/2004 federal elections down there. If what Palast claims can be proven then the USA has ceased to be a democracy because the people didn't elect their president!<br />
<br />
To make things even worse our own government (Harper) seems to be going in the same direction as Bush and his comrades. Harper seems to idolize Bush. He and McKay also pulled a really slimy trick (which seems to be the ethical nature of the right-wing parties) in taking over and destroying the Progressive Conservative party (read David Orchard's book "The Fight For Canada". Orchard finally won his court case against the CPC and retrieved the approx. $70,000 that they stole from him. To top this all off I think the vast majority of Canadians (and Americans) are very ignorant of what their government is doing and why.<br />
<br />
Your thoughts?<br />
/Alan<br />
<br />

   

Alan,<br />
<br />
I think more than one of us has more than one different reason for boycotting the census. My personal one if more concerned with making an already powerful military corporatation more powerful by giving it business at all. I am very anti-war, anti-military so that is my #1 concern. As far as privacy is concerned I do not want to be scrutinzed under the Patriot Act but do realize that my personal information is "out there" just because I've had a credit card, job, mortgage etc...<br />
<br />
My last resort was to let a wonderful stray Tomcat that has been hanging around my property leave his scent on my forms but I do realize that the person opening it would not be the one I would intend receiving a "stink bomb".<br />
<br />
I agree that both the USA and Canada fit the description of fascist. Although this conversation would be a bit off topic for this thread.<br />
<br />
Try resurrecting this one:<br />
<a href="http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.php?story=20041106000906958&query=Fascism%2BAnyone%253F">http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.php?story=20041106000906958&query=Fascism%2BAnyone%253F</a><br />
<br />
There is a new link to the article and this is it:<br />
<a href="http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=library&page=britt_23_2">http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=library&page=britt_23_2</a><p>---<br>"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche<br />

   

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