Forget about Iggy... "Canada's Liberal leader a surpris
Innes @ Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:18 pm
It is only when we give up that all hope is lost. Those of us who live in the real world of practical living try to catch every ray of hope we can and maybe, just maybe, we will endure.
solocanoe @ Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:28 pm
Not surprised at all. It's called coming up the middle. With the young Trudeau's support and everyone wanting to go back to that era (don't know why it was just awful) nostalgia pangs fused. Oh yes, it was an era of power for them come to think of it. For the rest of us perhaps it's deja vu about puberty.
If I were Dion I'd do whatever it takes to recruit Trudeau as a candidate and have him on the leaders tour with me going everywhere.
Harper's campaign will tie Dion to the Cretien record as much as possible. With Trudeau in tow it won't stick.
Dion will kick ass in Quebec in a good unifying way but in the end its same old same old.
I'm with Dio on Dion. The afterglow will abate. As usual the few will see through the deceptions (where we are really going) and not be heard.
All these warm thoughts seem to be a sigh of relief that we won't become as modelled after and defacto, absorbed by the US and we are less likely to split into pieces. Will we tolerate inept, corrupt, secretive and dishonest government that only wants power and delivers to the Corporations ahead of the folks...if only they let us keep our country together?
If only they let us keep our country together will be the only election issue til I am long gone I guess.
They'll say, Canada was horrible to the homeless, the disadvantaged, the disabled, the mentally ill, the women in crisis, the environment, the drug dependent, the working poor, and on and on....but we amazingly kept our country together.
Not enough. Not over. Real issues needed.
Diogenes @ Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:34 pm
Any of you seriously believe that I am suggesting giving up?<br />
what is know as "reality' has been engineered to be seen as "real".<br />
Another q.<br />
Do any of you who read what i present not see that the is a dedicated optimism that motivates me? <br />
<br />
Take the Red Pill!<br />
<br />
In the Matrix, which pill would you take, the red or the blue? <br />
<br />
The question of which pill to take illustrates the personal aspect of the decision to study philosophy. Do you live on in ignorance (and potentially bliss) or do you lead what Aristotle called 'the examined life'...<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.arrod.co.uk/essays/matrix.php">http://www.arrod.co.uk/essays/matrix.php</a> <p>---<br>Diogenes said:<br />
"I am Diogenes the Dog. I nuzzle the kind, bark at the greedy and bite scoundrels."
Deacon @ Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:03 pm
Then, solocanoe and Diogenes, please name your alternatives.
Even a small victory is still a victory.
The stuggle is never ending, and to begrudge the fact that the world is not as you want it is no reason to dump your pessimism on the rest of us.
It took a long time to get here, and the solution will take a long time as well.
Fast quick happy endings only happen in bad Disney movies.
As for pills, I'll leave those to them that need them, Individualist and warlock come to mind...
---
"and the knowledge they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
"The Weapon" - Rush
solocanoe @ Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:43 pm
Just can't get all that fuzzy about small victories. I agree there is one there. The best was chosen to sideline Harper. I'm happy Harper is headed south.
Cynical about just how slow the progress is tho...in my old age. Two steps back (Harper as PM)... one step forward (Dion as PM). Only one step forward for him because he will no doubt succeed at the expense of the Greens and the NDP. The Liberals are really Conservatives in drag you know. Dressed as something they are not. Pretending. Green???Concerned about social issues???
Alternative? There is no better alternative, at the moment, unfortunately. It has been a good day or two. Undoubtedly it could be much worse.
Don't get me wrong I do see good in that. They will be more flamboyant and entertaining than the Conservatives.
The country will be in relatively the same boat.
Diogenes @ Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:47 pm
Oh for Christ sakes stop and think what you are saying!
If you have been paying attention you would have recalled the alternatives I have put up here and have been ignored!
What you identify as pessimism is only that which you cannot get your head around
As for the rest of you platitudes, they are becoming to any who is desperation and lack of concerted strategy must fool the themselves with while in denial of the facts that the same string pullers are now pulling the strings of what appears to be palatable.
Had you taken the time to visit the link I provided you would have been aware the pill reference is a metaphor.
GOD! What a proclamation!! “The st(r)uggle is never ending, and to begrudge the fact that the world is not as you want it is no reason to dump your pessimism on the rest of us.”
You want never ending struggle? Be cause that is your assertion isn’t it?
How incredibly quaint.
Is that some gobblely-gook about man was born in sin and must endure?
The reality of today’s corporate toady politics is that corporatism is at the helm and choosing a different “leader’ has no bearing what so ever on the agendas the string pullers have.
To believe otherwise is to be deluded.
---
Diogenes said:
"I am Diogenes the Dog. I nuzzle the kind, bark at the greedy and bite scoundrels."
Deacon @ Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:20 pm
Dio, please calm down, k?
Life is a struggle, and to deny the obvious isn't doing anyone any good. (Ok, it's no struggle if you're rich, but I doubt that great wealth is part of very many on Vive's possesions.)
Class warfare isn't a myth, it's an all too bitter reality.
And the corporations are at the top of that food chain.
Will it eventually lead to riots and battles in the streets?
If history is any indicator, it will eventually. Until that happens, I'm not ruling out change by peaceful means.
Will Dion be the same as all the rest? I don't know, soothsaying isn't one of my skills, but I will admit there's a good chance of it.
But what I do know is that the big money back room Liberal wheeler dealers wanted Ignatieff, and the rank and file said no.
Say what you wish, it is your right, but I for one will not cave in to despair.
Hopelessness is a choice, and I do not choose it.
---
"and the knowledge they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
"The Weapon" - Rush
Deacon @ Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:34 pm
Btw Dio, I did get the Matrix reference, and I did follow the link.
That you didn't catch WHY I referred Indy and warlock to those pills was somewhat surprising however.
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"and the knowledge they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
"The Weapon" - Rush
bike-anarchist @ Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:02 pm
Who cares about the entitled members of our society and their vision for us? What is our collective vision, and the empowerment that accompanies it? We don't need the party politic BS in order to go beyond this pathetic circular life! In, fact we ARE becoming more US-like by virtue of
accepting only one other party as being the savior(s) (HAH!), protecting us from the Neo-Bushites of the Conservatives! How quickly we are willing to give up our democratic action to the priveledged!
So much has been spoken on this blogsite about the obsolescence of party democracy, yet, Dion (and the Liberals) will save us!!
Yeah, right.
michou @ Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:32 pm
Just a little side note and just in case some of you
Canucks are not that familiar with Québec politics,
Stéphane Dion's nomination disappointed just about
everyone across the entire political spectrum in the
province except maybe for the Bloquistes and
Péquistes who both see the choice as another proof of
a party voting once more against a province. To say
that Stéphane
Dion has a long way to go to to win back any hearts and
brains in the province is to say the least.
<p> Even Serge Chapleau, Québec's famous political
caricaturist was disappointed at the pick, tired he was
of drawing "the rat". But lo and behold, Chapleau had
a vision and this morning in La Presse, he surprised
us all. Dion sufffered a major transformation overnight,
from a bandaged head plucking away his whiskers,
Bell's beavers were now asking who was that new kid
on the block, waving the victory sign in front of the
unifoliate symbol.
I do believe Chapleau got it right again and Dion may
well end up surprising us all. We could all be saying
"Who would have thought !" by next summer, just like
no one
here had probably foreseen calling Québec a 'nation'
before the year end. Wiht Dion leading the Liberal Party
of Canada, some of us now living in this United
Provinces and Territories of Canada are laughing all
the way to the next referendum. 
<p>---<br>« Il y a une belle, une terrible rationalité dans la décision d'être libre. » - Gérard Bergeron <br />
RPW @ Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:04 pm
"Mr. Dion's "rehabilitation" actually started before the leadership race. The turning point came when he was appointed federal environment minister -- a responsibility he took, of course, very seriously, and that changed his image in Quebec, which has recently converted en masse to the new religion of the environment. His name became synonymous with the magic word, Kyoto. The coverage he received as president of the UN Climate Change Conference in Montreal was hugely positive."<br />
<br />
<a href="http://stephanedion.ca/?q=en/News-060710Comeback">http://stephanedion.ca/?q=en/News-060710Comeback</a><p>---<br>"No kingdom could be ruled without lies - - for lies are the things we use to build our reputations."........<br />
King Arthur <br />
Dino @ Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:25 pm
Michou, having Boisclair as PQ leader will virtually hand Jean Charest a re-election.Laughing to the next referendum?Always remember the PQ actually needs to win the next provincial election for them to be able to call a referendum. Also I agree with the fact that Dion won't win very many seats no more then they already have. I guess people will just have to wait and see what Dion will bring....
Diogenes @ Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:06 pm
Amusing that you open with, “Dio, please calm down, k?” and close with, “Say what you wish, it is your right, but I for one will not cave in to despair.
Hopelessness is a choice, and I do not choose it.”
Have you forgotten The raging Dio of old?
one must assume that to settle down one must be unsettled.
Let me assure I am not!
What I am ,with regard to the hosannas and sighs of relieve that Dion took it over Iggy, the iguana or as has been stated here, the lesser evil, is truly amazed at the reactions of those who before the popularity contest was held seemed to be able to distinguish between bullshit and bubble gum.
Hasn’t it already been pointed to that this Dion dude has pulled some sandys?
There has been more than enough evidence presented on these page as to who is who and what role they play and that is why I am in a state of amazement on how many time ya’ll get tricked.
Were you asked to live in a cave of despair? Or give up efforts to create a society the is equitable for all?
You were not! So stop hinting that you were
It Is insulting, uncalled for and belies the clear headedness required to accomplish the change of which I speak.
No matter which way you slice it the current establish parties are owned lock, stock and barrel by the bankstes
Until you can assimilate that simple fact all you are left with is the present corrupt system
And a s far as any, riots and battles in the streets, it will bee a cold day in Hell before I will be seen there because first of all they got all the guns and second rabble win nothing and will abandon their fellows in a heart beat
And thirdly, They got all the guns
indy and warlock are beyond redemption, but then again so are the twinkies prancing around clapping their flippers like trained seals and proclaiming gleefully
“Iggy didn’t get, Iggy didn’t get in” in that aggravating sing/song voice reserved for children
---
Diogenes said:
"I am Diogenes the Dog. I nuzzle the kind, bark at the greedy and bite scoundrels."
Deacon @ Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:23 pm
My apologies, but as you are aware, nuances that are as obvious as the moon on a clear night when stated face to face do not translate into text at all well.
Just out of curiosity, have I ever seen the raging Dio of old?
I ask simply because you were here long before I was.
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"and the knowledge they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
"The Weapon" - Rush
Diogenes @ Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:15 pm
accepted!
"Just out of curiosity, have I ever seen the raging Dio of old?'
Maybe not, This is or was a tough crowd and I do have strong views.
"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."
George W. Bush (1946- )
Fool me once shame on you , fool me twice shame on me
I see hope i also see false hope and (this is a BC joke) I live beyond Hope.
---
Diogenes said:
"I am Diogenes the Dog. I nuzzle the kind, bark at the greedy and bite scoundrels."