The Move Away From Democracy, and the Role of the NDP

Who said anything about intimidation? All that was asked was WHAT ACTION is being referred to? WHAT is the initiative? So far I haven't heard ANY.

If you're refering to what I said, I was refering to face to face and not online.

Sorry about any misinterpretation this may have caused.

Your talkin to the wrong crowd Bro
and you realy don't want to go there!
Nobody cal tell you anything
they can how ever hold a mirror up to uo though and what looks back is hardly prett is ?

"Too bad people are here just to look for a reason to lecture people and feel smug about their own lack of initiative, then maybe they'd follow the suggestion mentioned above and go to the direct democracy link to see HOW to challenge the system. It involves more work than talking down at other canadians."
it is exactly this kind of response that draws the reaction you recieve, If you want a different reaction change your tactics!
nask your selt , that ever so brilliant self that declare it doesn't have time to "armchair politic" It neeads to "make a living" and the falls back on schoolyard taunts of "sticks and stones".

Tell us what you are doing I must assume you are doing something proactive as you seem to find it easy to question what others dp
You have the floor
I am waitng, although not expecting, an adult response

---
to realise our knowledge is ignorance is a noble thought.
To regard our ignorance as knowledge-
This is mental illness
Lao-Tzo

I have endeavoured to bring attention to this very same assessment to this forum myself. 
“The Globalists read this kind of thing and it only enhances their myopic zeal to dominate and enslave us for our own good. They have brainwashed themselves using Straussian theology to believe that they have a divine right to subjugate and rule stupid people for the good of the planet. 
 
From the very foundation of the public school system the elite made their plans clear. The goal was to psychologically mould people to create mindless drones and bricks in the wall of the system, via learning monotonously by rote and the day being divided up by Pavlovian bells. 
 
In his 1905 dissertation for Columbia Teachers College, Elwood Cubberly—the future Dean of Education at Stanford—wrote that schools should be factories "in which raw products, children, are to be shaped and formed into finished products...manufactured like nails, and the specifications for manufacturing will come from government and industry." 
 
 
 
Similarly, the Rockefeller Education Board—which funded the creation of numerous public schools—issued a statement which read in part: 
 
"In our dreams...people yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding hands. The present educational conventions [intellectual and character education] fade from our minds, and unhampered by tradition we work our own good will upon a grateful and responsive folk. We shall not try to make these people or any of their children into philosophers or men of learning or men of science. We have not to raise up from among them authors, educators, poets or men of letters. We shall not search for embryo great artists, painters, musicians, nor lawyers, doctors, preachers, politicians, statesmen, of whom we have ample supply. The task we set before ourselves is very simple...we will organize children...and teach them to do in a perfect way the things their fathers and mothers are doing in an imperfect way."* 
The above applies to Canada as well as The USA and is my reason for making the claims I have on this thread. 
* <a href="http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/march2006/020306knowmore.htm">http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/march2006/020306knowmore.htm</a> 
--- to realise our knowledge is ignorance is a noble thought. 
To regard our ignorance as knowledge- 
This is mental illness 
Lao-Tzo

All that was done was ask a simple question. People above seemed to have no trouble telling canadians what their duty is and calling others lazy. As far as 'things being done', I haven't heard anything. People here don't even seem to belong to a political party, let alone get active in their campaigns, let alone join organizations. This wasn't a place to hand in a resume, some of us don't care about squabbling we just want to know how it is you 'non cynic 'fighters'' are FIXING the country. Obviously if people here were lecturing others and calling them defeatist and lazy I assumed they must be DOING something. WHAT IS IT? What are the 'non cynics' doing that we cynical, lazy, defeatist, duty avoiding canucks should feel like 'fools'?

The only thing I've seen is one suggestion to write an article about Strauss and paste it into some forums. People don't need philosophy to tell them they are being screwed, Canadians KNOW they are being screwed. That's why almost half don't even show up to vote. I was the one being called lazy and defeatist, now suddenly the activists are asking the lazy cynic what he's doing?? What kind of crazy is that? What 'face to face' activities are being done? Are they secret? Thanks for proving my point, canadians have EVERY right to be cynical defeatist and say it sure as heck isn't their 'duty' to take ANY part in upholding a corrupt system, no matter how many armchair patriots tell them otherwise.

‘’People don't need philosophy to tell them they are being screwed, Canadians KNOW they are being screwed. That's why almost half don't even show up to vote.”

Am I to understand from our above statement that knowledge/wisdom is NOT required to make an informed decision on whom to vote for?
You further muddy the waters with asinine logic: Canadians are being screwed by their elected reps. So therefore don’t vote.
Yup, Good plan Stan!
Keep busy chasing your mortgage
Pay no mind to who it is you vote for.

The suggestion has been put forward that the electorate become familiar with the character of the parties and the individuals that align them selves with those parties BEFORE a ballot is cast.

Awareness of having been screwed is after the fact

The idea of gaining knowledge is to be screw protected.
Take a Critical Thinking online course to see identify the bull shit
Or continue to get screwed
There is no “duty” there is however an onus to “know” and to have the will to become involved.
Is that not what you have been saying?
To have a representational democracy one must be involved, not drop out, and in doing so- dropping out that is, give even MORE power to those who are screwing you!

---
to realise our knowledge is ignorance is a noble thought.
To regard our ignorance as knowledge-
This is mental illness
Lao-Tzo

Once bitten, twice shy, as the saying goes. You don't need 'foreknowledge' to know that politicians lie. Mulroney proved it, Chretien proved it, Martin proved it, and Harper is proving it. Chretien was going to bring in proportional representation, ban the GST, and bring in a national child care program, thats why people voted for him. He didn't even TRY to do ANY of those. Knowledge of that didn't spare anybody. Chretien said NOTHING about massively cutting federal spending, which is the exact opposite of what most people expected from a liberal. How did 'foreknowledge' help us out there? Politicians HAVE learned not to lie as much, that's quite simply because they almost never say anything during elections on plans. You literally vote for them because you don't like the other guy. So what good is knowledge, if a politician is going to do the exact opposite of what they say, and what most polls show people want? We can analyze the ramifications of getting rid of the GST, learn everything there is to know about it, so then vote liberal. And presto, nothing changes. All that knowledge and wasted time for nothing. You get a few instances of those, and you get people who quite rightly say that not only is it not their duty to take part, they want no part.

Compare that to the 92 referendum where people DID get the knowledge, and read, and talk, and discuss, and then VOTE. And we voted in huge numbers by todays standards. And when it was done, it was at least democratic and people had spoken. THEN people knew it was their duty, and the DID their duty. This current system is the complete opposite of that, and people really can't be faulted for not taking their valuable time and learning all about whatever they are supposed to learn all about so that lying politicians can continue to lie and govern in a system that isn't even representative.

Let it go buddy.

I have my opinion, you have yours.

I accept yours as being what it is, your opinion. You can either accept mine for what it is, or yuo can keep on whining about the fact that someone told you to grow your ass up and do something.

Either way, I've had a bad day and right now your blathering makes me want to puke.

Too f'n bad if you don't like it.

Who didn't accept people's opinion? What else is this board but people's opinions? If you don't like it, go elsewhere. If it 'makes you puke', that's too bad. I don't know you and if other peoples opinions mean so little to you then I'm not writing for your benefit anyway. Some good advice is 'if you can't say something nice...'. There's only been one side of this argument that's been insulting and condescending, so I don't feel too bad with my 'blathering'. Clearly nobody at this posting thread is doing anything about the current situation so why should I, or anybody else (who are the clear majority) "do something". That exactly was the question, and its a pretty simple question and nobody here seems to be doing squat, or they haven't said what it is, so I think I and the majority are quite right to NOT be 'doing something', and to tell the hypocrites out there to bugger off when they shout from their armchairs that OTHERS should be 'doing something'. The 'do as I say and not as I do' line doens't work on kids, it certainly doesn't work on adults.

So I'll ignore the blatant rudeness and adolescent ranting (many of us have bad days and don't bring it to the board) and repeat the question: what is it exactly I should be doing?

I think I do get it.

Has it ever occurred to you that it is your lack of civility and respect for others that results in the kind of treatment you receive? If you attack someone who has similar beliefs to you in the way you do I would expect that your attitude to those who had fundamental differences would be even more uncivil.

I generally walk away from that kind of spite but obviously not everyone reacts in the same manner. You cannot educate by intimidation.

Your point on the 92 referendum but is it realistic to put every issue to the public in such a way? It is a valid approach for major issues, such as constitutional changes.

On the other hand, if a government incurred the same level of expense on every issue there would be little left to pay for programs. I suspect that the interest level of the public in participating would quickly fall off and we would end up like California with contradictory legislation.

Politicians do lie and they do distort and they change their minds. It may be too much work for the public to take them to account but those of us willing to challenge them in various ways will continue to struggle for honesty in politics.

Some people opt to work to try to make their influence felt within political parties. Others try to make their voice heard through the media, in public forums, through internet blogs. People have to take over the political parties.

The merger of the Canadian Alliance and the Progressive Conservative Party was largely a power play by the large corporations who refused to fund the parties unless they merged. People like Belinda Stronach and those behind her feared the influence of someone like David Orchard in creating a more moderate Progressive Conservative Party.

The attempt to change the direction of the party to a hard right ideology worked but under such a manipulated process that that it could not fail. Only a few of us tried to stop the process. Those of us who did are not surprised that the new party is just as corrupt as the process that created it.

Unless we are willing to step up and force the political parties to become democratic themselves the system will not change. We have to start with democratizing our parties from the riding level up.

You do whatever you want.

I'll do what I have to in order to make sure my deceendants have a future.

Come,come, sheeple,we are as informed as (they) want us to
be. Sheeple only swallow the good stuff and follow along
to get more.
The electorate is as blind as and as stupid as it is
prosperous. Those areas that are not as prosperous,squawk
the loudest until fed the right amount. It is the rare
sheeple indeed that will spit the cud that they are led to
eat. After all, the good shepherd knows best!

---
A little peice of heaven is found in good deeds.

And what exactly (or even approximately) is it that you have to do? Or is it top secret? No wonder people don't get active, even those who ARE active and tell them they should BE active, won't even say HOW they are to be active.

Anybody that thinks canadians are 'sheeple' doesn't know many canadians. Canadian get by and build this country as they have for hundreds of years, with as little contact as humanly possible from government. Ever heard of the black market? The underground economy? Pot? Booze? Drugs? It is because of the idiot shephard that canadians left the field long ago. The shephard takes its pound of flesh which we reluctantly agree to, just to get the damn shephard out of our face. If anybody came up with a way to noose that damn shephard the sheep would turn into wolves pretty damn quickly, as has been shown many times before. So far, we haven't heard any ideas of late, but it will come.

<blockquote>“Democracy” is one of the most ill-used words in our time.</blockquote> I certainly agree with Robin on this. I also agree that the USA is not a democracy — as Marcarc noted, republic would be closer to the mark. <blockquote>Democracy – in plain, modern language – is government by representatives of the population, chosen through genuinely fair election processes. The representatives are chosen from disagreeing groups we call “parties” which are formed from people with different views about how best to operate society.</blockquote> If that definition were qualified as representative democracy, then I’d be likelier to accept it. The first Tuesday in March is Town Meeting Day here in Vermont, when (direct) democracy takes place at the municipal level; it will be we citizens ourselves, not mayors or aldermen or councils, who decide what our school budgets, road maintenance, &c. will be, and thus at what level we’ll tax ourselves. Plus we’ll bring pie. (Well, I’ll bring scratch brownies, but I’ll enjoy a taste of my neighbours’ pies.) As there are national legislators on both sides of our border who aren’t affiliated with any political party, I disagree with the second sentence in the quote above. <blockquote>[Diogenes:] until there is a non-partisan school for the voters to attend and to issue competency licences, we will keep performing the same ongoing insanity</blockquote> Diogenes, who would be the ones to determine the content of that non-partisan syllabus? As Innes pointed out, one person’s education could be another person’s indoctrination.--- Shatter your ideals upon the rock of Truth. 
 
— The Divine Symphony, by Inayat Khan