Harper looks down on the middle class...
Jaime_Souviens @ Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:52 pm
Ruserious Ruserious:
Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:
Ruserious Ruserious:
From high above on his pulpit, Stephen Harper reflects on the middle class...
Just another example of how disconnected Harper and the Conservatives are from main street Canadians.
$1:
Harper Thinks Middle Income People Earn $90,000
December 05, 2005
Conservative leader Stephen Harper today told the media:
"I tend to think of you know people up to 80 to 90 thousand dollars as being middle income in this day and age … I don’t think most people would consider $70,000 to be high income." (Stephen Harper, December 5, 2005)
Fact:
The average adult wage in Canada is just under $32,000, according to Statistics Canada.
And the average household income at $64,900, well below Harper’s $90,000 definition of what it means to be "middle income in this day and age."
We now understand why Harper’s recent policy announcements on the GST and child care favour higher income Canadians.
He actually thinks he's aiming at the middle!
December 05, 2005
Conservative leader Stephen Harper today told the media:
"I tend to think of you know people up to 80 to 90 thousand dollars as being middle income in this day and age … I don’t think most people would consider $70,000 to be high income." (Stephen Harper, December 5, 2005)
Fact:
The average adult wage in Canada is just under $32,000, according to Statistics Canada.
And the average household income at $64,900, well below Harper’s $90,000 definition of what it means to be "middle income in this day and age."
We now understand why Harper’s recent policy announcements on the GST and child care favour higher income Canadians.
He actually thinks he's aiming at the middle!
Just another example of how disconnected Harper and the Conservatives are from main street Canadians.
He said that he considers "UP TO" 90,000 to be middle class. The fact that the average household income is 65,000 is perfectly in line with that.
Middle classes are the middle 3 quintiles, including upper middle class and lower middle class. So when someone says that middle class is up to 90,000 they are pretty damn accurate.
What is it about the phrase "UP TO" are you having problems understanding here dipshit?
Jaime_Souviens @ Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:58 pm
Statistics Canada
Statistics Canada defines the middle quintile of families at $65,700 to $166,500.
If we assume single earners make half that, the middle quintile is $32,850 to $83,250.
Bite me.
Thematic-Device @ Sun Dec 11, 2005 5:30 pm
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
Yeah, but Harper also said that he thinks that most people won't consider $70,000 to be high income. and the average household income of $64,900 is still a few grand under that. I guess that means that in Harpers eyes, most of Canadians are poor.
No in harpers eyes most people don't think slightly above average is fabulously wealthy. Why are you having such problems with this concept?
I personally don't think 25,000 is a tremendous starting salary, it does not then follow that I consider 25,000 absolute squalor and impovrishment. See how that works?
According to Harper's Idea of middle-class, it is $70,000 to $90,000 right?
The average Canadian makes less that the "minimum" of what Harper thinks is middle-class. If Harper knew this, he would think that most Canadians are poor. See how that works?
No and perhaps you should re read the article, he considers 90,000 to be the upper limit of middle class. That is to say, anyone who earns more then 90,000 is upper class. He believes that most people no longer consider 70,000 to be upper class.
Jaime_Souviens @ Sun Dec 11, 2005 5:33 pm
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
Yeah, but Harper also said that he thinks that most people won't consider $70,000 to be high income. and the average household income of $64,900 is still a few grand under that. I guess that means that in Harpers eyes, most of Canadians are poor.
No in harpers eyes most people don't think slightly above average is fabulously wealthy. Why are you having such problems with this concept?
I personally don't think 25,000 is a tremendous starting salary, it does not then follow that I consider 25,000 absolute squalor and impovrishment. See how that works?
According to Harper's Idea of middle-class, it is $70,000 to $90,000 right?
The average Canadian makes less that the "minimum" of what Harper thinks is middle-class. If Harper knew this, he would think that most Canadians are poor. See how that works?
That's only what Ruserious wants you to believe Harper said...
ShepherdsDog @ Sun Dec 11, 2005 5:50 pm
Between my income and my wife's, as a principal, we were fairly close to Harper's figures and we were definitely not living an extravagant life of luxury. It was comfortable, but a huge chunk of that pay went into taxes and deductions. In the end your net is pretty gross. Seeing as $ 28 000 for a family of four, is considered to be living right on the poverty line, if you're bringing in a combined family income of even $150 000 a year, I'd still consider that middle class income. It's Millionaire Martin, who grew up wealthy, who's lost touch, if he ever had it to begin with, with the middle class. If he had a clue about the tax burden bore by them, he wouldn't be so damn reluctant to restructure the taxation system and slash personal income tax.
OnTheIce @ Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:27 pm
Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:
Statistics Canada
Statistics Canada defines the middle quintile of families at $65,700 to $166,500.
If we assume single earners make half that, the middle quintile is $32,850 to $83,250.
Bite me.
Statistics Canada defines the middle quintile of families at $65,700 to $166,500.
If we assume single earners make half that, the middle quintile is $32,850 to $83,250.
Bite me.
Case CLOSED! Well done.
Mika @ Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:55 pm
Well its all nice and all that he is admiting that more then half of Canadians are poor, but what does he plan to do about it? Cause if he is saying thats what middle class is then I expect him to at least propose a plan to get the poor people into the middle class. As for the national average being lower then the lower class, well thats because of inflation, people are making the same amount of money while prices on everything(mainly everyday needed items) is going up, so if Harper would propose to maybe increase the minumum wage to something in the middle class then what he said would be good but if he just admits that more then Half the people in Canada are poor, then he's nit saying anything new and he's pretty much useless, just like the liberals.
Ruserious @ Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:02 pm
Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
Yeah, but Harper also said that he thinks that most people won't consider $70,000 to be high income. and the average household income of $64,900 is still a few grand under that. I guess that means that in Harpers eyes, most of Canadians are poor.
No in harpers eyes most people don't think slightly above average is fabulously wealthy. Why are you having such problems with this concept?
I personally don't think 25,000 is a tremendous starting salary, it does not then follow that I consider 25,000 absolute squalor and impovrishment. See how that works?
According to Harper's Idea of middle-class, it is $70,000 to $90,000 right?
The average Canadian makes less that the "minimum" of what Harper thinks is middle-class. If Harper knew this, he would think that most Canadians are poor. See how that works?
That's only what Ruserious wants you to believe Harper said...
What Harper did say, was that he believes that the income of middle class Canadians is between $70,000 - $90,000.
He wasn't talking about family income.
But then even using your convoluted right wing math,
According to your stats page, the average family income for the middle class would be $116,000
Which is a hell of a long way from what the actual average household income of $64,900 really is.
All the more proof, that the right wing really just doesn't get it.
St. Thomas Ontario would vouch for that...
$1:
Income
Average Male Income $39,326
Average Male Employment Income (Full-time) $49,840
Average Female Income $23,170
Average Female Employment Income (Full-time) $32,823
Average Family Income $56,024
Average Male Income $39,326
Average Male Employment Income (Full-time) $49,840
Average Female Income $23,170
Average Female Employment Income (Full-time) $32,823
Average Family Income $56,024
onemeancanadian @ Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:09 pm
Ruserious Ruserious:
Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
Yeah, but Harper also said that he thinks that most people won't consider $70,000 to be high income. and the average household income of $64,900 is still a few grand under that. I guess that means that in Harpers eyes, most of Canadians are poor.
No in harpers eyes most people don't think slightly above average is fabulously wealthy. Why are you having such problems with this concept?
I personally don't think 25,000 is a tremendous starting salary, it does not then follow that I consider 25,000 absolute squalor and impovrishment. See how that works?
According to Harper's Idea of middle-class, it is $70,000 to $90,000 right?
The average Canadian makes less that the "minimum" of what Harper thinks is middle-class. If Harper knew this, he would think that most Canadians are poor. See how that works?
That's only what Ruserious wants you to believe Harper said...
What Harper did say, was that he believes that the income of middle class Canadians is between $70,000 - $90,000.
He wasn't talking about family income.
But then even using your convoluted right wing math,
According to your stats page, the average family income for the middle class would be $116,000
Which is a hell of a long way from what the actual average household income of $64,900 really is.
All the more proof, that the right wing really just doesn't get it.
St. Thomas Ontario would vouch for that...
$1:
Income
Average Male Income $39,326
Average Male Employment Income (Full-time) $49,840
Average Female Income $23,170
Average Female Employment Income (Full-time) $32,823
Average Family Income $56,024
Average Male Income $39,326
Average Male Employment Income (Full-time) $49,840
Average Female Income $23,170
Average Female Employment Income (Full-time) $32,823
Average Family Income $56,024
Smells like Ruserious is a little jealous, your weekly insult doesn’t cut it eh.
Ruserious @ Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:21 pm
onemeaninglessidiot onemeaninglessidiot:
Smells like Ruserious is a little jealous, your weekly insult doesn’t cut it eh.
Did you have something to add to this debate, besides your ankle biting?
I didn't think so.
OnTheIce @ Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:05 pm
Ruserious Ruserious:
Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
Yeah, but Harper also said that he thinks that most people won't consider $70,000 to be high income. and the average household income of $64,900 is still a few grand under that. I guess that means that in Harpers eyes, most of Canadians are poor.
No in harpers eyes most people don't think slightly above average is fabulously wealthy. Why are you having such problems with this concept?
I personally don't think 25,000 is a tremendous starting salary, it does not then follow that I consider 25,000 absolute squalor and impovrishment. See how that works?
According to Harper's Idea of middle-class, it is $70,000 to $90,000 right?
The average Canadian makes less that the "minimum" of what Harper thinks is middle-class. If Harper knew this, he would think that most Canadians are poor. See how that works?
That's only what Ruserious wants you to believe Harper said...
What Harper did say, was that he believes that the income of middle class Canadians is between $70,000 - $90,000.
He wasn't talking about family income.
But then even using your convoluted right wing math,
According to your stats page, the average family income for the middle class would be $116,000
Which is a hell of a long way from what the actual average household income of $64,900 really is.
All the more proof, that the right wing really just doesn't get it.
St. Thomas Ontario would vouch for that...
$1:
Income
Average Male Income $39,326
Average Male Employment Income (Full-time) $49,840
Average Female Income $23,170
Average Female Employment Income (Full-time) $32,823
Average Family Income $56,024
Average Male Income $39,326
Average Male Employment Income (Full-time) $49,840
Average Female Income $23,170
Average Female Employment Income (Full-time) $32,823
Average Family Income $56,024
Like a typical Liberal, you never let the facts get in the way of a point.
The link above was from Stats Canada.
Your link shows nothing but the stats from a small town in Ontario with a stuggling economy. Just over 72% make under 40k.
Thematic-Device @ Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:08 pm
Ruserious Ruserious:
Facts don't lie moron.
You're right, and the fact is, english grammar isn't your strong point...
$1:
"I tend to think of you know people up to 80 to 90 thousand dollars as being middle income in this day and age … I don’t think most people would consider $70,000 to be high income."
$1:
What Harper did say, was that he believes that the income of middle class Canadians is between $70,000 - $90,000.
No he said that 90,000 is the upper limit of middle class, it is the maximum, the limit, one can approach the income but not reach it in order to be middle class. Ones income can be less than but not equal to, in order to be middle class.
I can express this in an equation for you
poor<Middle Class<90,000<Rich
Then he said that people dont consider 70,000 to be a massive income... To say that another way 70,000 does not equal donald trump, its not an unattainable pinnacle, or to put it another way
70,000 ≠ upper class
$1:
He wasn't talking about family income.
Really he wasn't? Because It seems to me he said a non-specific statement, so if anything it would stand to reason that we would consider either the most common usage (household income) or to not make assumptions at all.
$1:
According to your stats page, the average family income for the middle class would be $116,000
In order to look at wealth distribution households are broken into 5 groups, called quintiles, the middle quintile tends to be people between $65,700 to $166,500. that doesn't mean that you can simply take 65,700 and 166,500 and add them together then divide by two in order to get the average. Because if you remember your elementary math, that is called the range and is not used for calculating averages.
For example, suppose we had the numbers: 0, 5, 5, 5, 5, the range would be 0 and 5, and if we used your flawed mathmatics we'd go around claiming that the average is 2.5, but this is not the case, to the good luck of students everywhere, because instead we'd add up the numbers and divide them by the number of cases, and get the answer of 4.
$1:
Which is a hell of a long way from what the actual average household income of $64,900 really is.
Again the only one practicing fuzzy math here is you.
Ruserious @ Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:15 pm
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
Ruserious Ruserious:
Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
Yeah, but Harper also said that he thinks that most people won't consider $70,000 to be high income. and the average household income of $64,900 is still a few grand under that. I guess that means that in Harpers eyes, most of Canadians are poor.
No in harpers eyes most people don't think slightly above average is fabulously wealthy. Why are you having such problems with this concept?
I personally don't think 25,000 is a tremendous starting salary, it does not then follow that I consider 25,000 absolute squalor and impovrishment. See how that works?
According to Harper's Idea of middle-class, it is $70,000 to $90,000 right?
The average Canadian makes less that the "minimum" of what Harper thinks is middle-class. If Harper knew this, he would think that most Canadians are poor. See how that works?
That's only what Ruserious wants you to believe Harper said...
What Harper did say, was that he believes that the income of middle class Canadians is between $70,000 - $90,000.
He wasn't talking about family income.
But then even using your convoluted right wing math,
According to your stats page, the average family income for the middle class would be $116,000
Which is a hell of a long way from what the actual average household income of $64,900 really is.
All the more proof, that the right wing really just doesn't get it.
St. Thomas Ontario would vouch for that...
$1:
Income
Average Male Income $39,326
Average Male Employment Income (Full-time) $49,840
Average Female Income $23,170
Average Female Employment Income (Full-time) $32,823
Average Family Income $56,024
Average Male Income $39,326
Average Male Employment Income (Full-time) $49,840
Average Female Income $23,170
Average Female Employment Income (Full-time) $32,823
Average Family Income $56,024
Like a typical Liberal, you never let the facts get in the way of a point.
The link above was from Stats Canada.
Your link shows nothing but the stats from a small town in Ontario with a stuggling economy. Just over 72% make under 40k.
Perhaps you might want to let the City of St Thomas in on that and ask them why their unemployment rates are no higher than the national average, you know since they're supposedly a 'struggling small town' and all.
Those housing starts which have doubled in the past couple of years must be meaningless to eh?
And I suppose that those huge auto and truck manufacturing plants are just a mirage too eh?.
Typical conservative, fucking clueless.
Arctic_Menace @ Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:20 pm
Dear Thematic-Device....
Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:
No he said that 90,000 is the upper limit of middle class
Harper also said that $70,000 is the limit to the lowest income for middle-class people. Ergo, under $70,000 a year would be seen as poor in Harper's eyes. Too bad the average Canadian makes less than that.
Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:
That's only what Ruserious wants you to believe Harper said...
Jaime Souviens, Ruserious doesn't want me to believe anything. I agree that the way the facts are being presented here are very one-sided, but nonetheless, I drew my own conclusion, and that is that Harper has a screw loose. I know that I am opinionated, but hell, that's expected of me being a teenager and all.
And if this is what Ruserious wants me to believe, does that still apply to ridenrain wanting me to believe that the Conservatives are a good choice and that Stephen Harper is a good candidate?
onemeancanadian @ Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:24 pm
Ruserious Ruserious:
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
Ruserious Ruserious:
Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
Yeah, but Harper also said that he thinks that most people won't consider $70,000 to be high income. and the average household income of $64,900 is still a few grand under that. I guess that means that in Harpers eyes, most of Canadians are poor.
No in harpers eyes most people don't think slightly above average is fabulously wealthy. Why are you having such problems with this concept?
I personally don't think 25,000 is a tremendous starting salary, it does not then follow that I consider 25,000 absolute squalor and impovrishment. See how that works?
According to Harper's Idea of middle-class, it is $70,000 to $90,000 right?
The average Canadian makes less that the "minimum" of what Harper thinks is middle-class. If Harper knew this, he would think that most Canadians are poor. See how that works?
That's only what Ruserious wants you to believe Harper said...
What Harper did say, was that he believes that the income of middle class Canadians is between $70,000 - $90,000.
He wasn't talking about family income.
But then even using your convoluted right wing math,
According to your stats page, the average family income for the middle class would be $116,000
Which is a hell of a long way from what the actual average household income of $64,900 really is.
All the more proof, that the right wing really just doesn't get it.
St. Thomas Ontario would vouch for that...
$1:
Income
Average Male Income $39,326
Average Male Employment Income (Full-time) $49,840
Average Female Income $23,170
Average Female Employment Income (Full-time) $32,823
Average Family Income $56,024
Average Male Income $39,326
Average Male Employment Income (Full-time) $49,840
Average Female Income $23,170
Average Female Employment Income (Full-time) $32,823
Average Family Income $56,024
Like a typical Liberal, you never let the facts get in the way of a point.
The link above was from Stats Canada.
Your link shows nothing but the stats from a small town in Ontario with a stuggling economy. Just over 72% make under 40k.
Perhaps you might want to let the City of St Thomas in on that and ask them why their unemployment rates are no higher than the national average, you know since they're supposedly a 'struggling small town' and all.
Those housing starts which have doubled in the past couple of years must be meaningless to eh?
And I suppose that those huge auto and truck manufacturing plants are just a mirage too eh?.
Typical conservative, fucking clueless.
When the ford plant closes it will have a nice unemployment rate. dufus
Oh and when you see PMPM ask him why all the Liberal campaign signs have a no mention of the liberal party of it's so small you would need to be on top of it to see it. Could it be the members don't even want to be associated with this party?
Nice group you back there appeaser