- In an effort to keep Quebec in the country -
maple_leaf1 @ Thu Dec 22, 2005 8:28 pm
Hi everyone! Bonjour à tous!
A few seperatist CKA members and I have been arguing about one of Harper's plans regarding the province of Quebec and what the ROC thinks about it. In an effort to Canada together, Harper made the following promise to Quebecers:
$1:
Practising open federalism by respecting provincial autonomy, cultural and institutional responsibilities, and allowing Quebec to play a role in international institutions, such as UNESCO
$1:
Pratiquer un fédéralisme d’ouverture en respectant l’autonomie et les responsabilités culturelles et institutionnelles provinciales, et permettre au Québec de participer aux institutions internationales comme l’UNESCO
www.unesco.org
Please answer to the poll and feel free to share comments below.
SVP répondre au sondage et sentez-vous libre de partager vos opinions ci-dessous.
Personally, I support his plan.
Canadaka @ Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:10 am
dont support it, there are numerous cultuers in Canada. If we give Quebec special consideration it sets a president to allow all the other profinces or natives nations. So there goes Canada, no way no how, Quebec is a province of Canada, in Canada like other nations we have an elected federal Government that represents our country in these matters, end of story.
I see no positive side to this, besides giving the seperatist another victory for there goals.
Numure @ Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:08 pm
Too bad not to many more are participating...
bossdog @ Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:21 pm
Won't vote on this poll - I don't like the wording either.
I have to agree that Quebec is (like it or not) A PART OF CANADA.
Isn't there enough room on St.Pierre et Miquelon for the seperatist that want to enjoy a life of federalism outside of Canada without having to go to far away from Canada?
Streaker @ Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:28 pm
Making this concession to Quebec will do nothing to stop the separatists, but will on the other hand weaken Canada.
I vote no. (#3, but the wording is bad)
Motorcycleboy @ Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:04 pm
I disagree with it in principle, but I have to admit it's a brilliant political strategy for Harper.
Firstly, it totally outmanuevers the Liberals. They can criticize his policy all they want, but the fact is that up until recently, they were proposing the same thing.
Ihttp://preinheimer.com/index.php?/arch ... eason.html
$1:
October 4, 2004
Federal Heritage Minister Liza Frulla suggested Quebec could speak for Canada at some international meetings, especially when cultural issues are up for discussion. But Intergovernmental Affairs Minister Lucienne Robillard later rejected the idea, saying only Canada speaks for Canada.
Still, Ottawa and Quebec are in talks to give Quebec a seat at such international bodies as UNESCO -- the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization.
Federal Heritage Minister Liza Frulla suggested Quebec could speak for Canada at some international meetings, especially when cultural issues are up for discussion. But Intergovernmental Affairs Minister Lucienne Robillard later rejected the idea, saying only Canada speaks for Canada.
Still, Ottawa and Quebec are in talks to give Quebec a seat at such international bodies as UNESCO -- the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization.
In fact, in many ways Quebec already enjoys some autonomy in this area, with seats at international bodies like UNESCO. So the Conservative proposal would really just legitimize something that's being done in practice anyway.
On top of that, it plays well in Quebec. Yesterday, Jean Charest came out and supported the Conservative proposal. Considering he's the most high profile federalist politician in the province, that had to sting the Libs. And perhaps more importantly, ADQ leader Mario Dumont not only supported the proposal yesterday, he put his support behind the Conservative party in the election!
That's significant. It's going to be awfully hard for Martin to paint Harper as an enemy of federalism with those heavy hitters supporting the CPC proposals.
Numure @ Fri Dec 23, 2005 6:00 pm
Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:
I disagree with it in principle, but I have to admit it's a brilliant political strategy for Harper.
Firstly, it totally outmanuevers the Liberals. They can criticize his policy all they want, but the fact is that up until recently, they were proposing the same thing.
Ihttp://preinheimer.com/index.php?/arch ... eason.html
In fact, in many ways Quebec already enjoys some autonomy in this area, with seats at international bodies like UNESCO. So the Conservative proposal would really just legitimize something that's being done in practice anyway.
On top of that, it plays well in Quebec. Yesterday, Jean Charest came out and supported the Conservative proposal. Considering he's the most high profile federalist politician in the province, that had to sting the Libs. And perhaps more importantly, ADQ leader Mario Dumont not only supported the proposal yesterday, he put his support behind the Conservative party in the election!
That's significant. It's going to be awfully hard for Martin to paint Harper as an enemy of federalism with those heavy hitters supporting the CPC proposals.
Firstly, it totally outmanuevers the Liberals. They can criticize his policy all they want, but the fact is that up until recently, they were proposing the same thing.
Ihttp://preinheimer.com/index.php?/arch ... eason.html
$1:
October 4, 2004
Federal Heritage Minister Liza Frulla suggested Quebec could speak for Canada at some international meetings, especially when cultural issues are up for discussion. But Intergovernmental Affairs Minister Lucienne Robillard later rejected the idea, saying only Canada speaks for Canada.
Still, Ottawa and Quebec are in talks to give Quebec a seat at such international bodies as UNESCO -- the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization.
Federal Heritage Minister Liza Frulla suggested Quebec could speak for Canada at some international meetings, especially when cultural issues are up for discussion. But Intergovernmental Affairs Minister Lucienne Robillard later rejected the idea, saying only Canada speaks for Canada.
Still, Ottawa and Quebec are in talks to give Quebec a seat at such international bodies as UNESCO -- the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization.
In fact, in many ways Quebec already enjoys some autonomy in this area, with seats at international bodies like UNESCO. So the Conservative proposal would really just legitimize something that's being done in practice anyway.
On top of that, it plays well in Quebec. Yesterday, Jean Charest came out and supported the Conservative proposal. Considering he's the most high profile federalist politician in the province, that had to sting the Libs. And perhaps more importantly, ADQ leader Mario Dumont not only supported the proposal yesterday, he put his support behind the Conservative party in the election!
That's significant. It's going to be awfully hard for Martin to paint Harper as an enemy of federalism with those heavy hitters supporting the CPC proposals.
Just want to clear one thing up, Dumont is a marginal political player in Quebec. Second, he is a fully fledged conservative. HE has always supported the cons.
Second, de liberals alienated Jean Charest since he came in. So never expect him to vote liberal on the federal scale. He is a federalist, but also a Nationalist. And he is in favor of anything giving more power to the provinces. So are the majority of federalists in Quebec. Very few believe in a strong central government... except maybe alot of anglo's.
Motorcycleboy @ Fri Dec 23, 2005 10:38 pm
Numure Numure:
Just want to clear one thing up, Dumont is a marginal political player in Quebec. Second, he is a fully fledged conservative. HE has always supported the cons.
Second, de liberals alienated Jean Charest since he came in. So never expect him to vote liberal on the federal scale. He is a federalist, but also a Nationalist. And he is in favor of anything giving more power to the provinces. So are the majority of federalists in Quebec. Very few believe in a strong central government... except maybe alot of anglo's.
Second, de liberals alienated Jean Charest since he came in. So never expect him to vote liberal on the federal scale. He is a federalist, but also a Nationalist. And he is in favor of anything giving more power to the provinces. So are the majority of federalists in Quebec. Very few believe in a strong central government... except maybe alot of anglo's.
True, and I'm not about to argue that Harper is about to do for today's Conservatives in Quebec what Mulroney did two decades ago.
But by bringing Charest and Dumont onside, Harper has managed to give his party a profile in Quebec that the Libs don't enjoy. The only hopes the Liberals have in that province today are in Westmount and Beaconsfield. Suddenly, Harper can point to a following in other parts of the province that the Federal Libs can't hope to appeal to.
Elvis @ Fri Dec 23, 2005 10:48 pm
I will give you folks my opinion on this.
No one in the ROC will agree to see Québec on internationnal forum. That is the biggest probleme whith is so call plan. I just don't believe that it would ever come into effect because Canadian will never reconize the Quebecois nation.(remember meech and Charlotte...)
We have seen a lot of promise when the independence mouvement is high in Québec. And we usually get screw! I don't think that this time will be any different. 
Motorcycleboy @ Fri Dec 23, 2005 10:54 pm
Elvis Elvis:
I will give you folks my opinion on this.
No one in the ROC will agree to see Québec on internationnal forum. That is the biggest probleme whith is so call plan. I just don't believe that it would ever come into effect because Canadian will never reconize the Quebecois nation.(remember meech and Charlotte...)
We have seen a lot of promise when the independence mouvement is high in Québec. And we usually get screw! I don't think that this time will be any different.
No one in the ROC will agree to see Québec on internationnal forum. That is the biggest probleme whith is so call plan. I just don't believe that it would ever come into effect because Canadian will never reconize the Quebecois nation.(remember meech and Charlotte...)
We have seen a lot of promise when the independence mouvement is high in Québec. And we usually get screw! I don't think that this time will be any different.
You've never been screwed in this country Elvis. If anything, ROC, and in particular, Ontario, has bent over backwards to accomodate Quebec's demands.
But don't let that stop the door from hitting your ass on the way out! Go!
JUST DO IT!
maple_leaf1 @ Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:28 pm
Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:
You've never been screwed in this country Elvis. If anything, ROC, and in particular, Ontario, has bent over backwards to accomodate Quebec's demands.
So true!
Tellement vrai!
Bodah @ Sat Dec 24, 2005 9:18 am
One country, One voice.
Enough with appeasement, its time to make Quebec independet. Countrys change throughout time, consititutions change, people change.
Theres nothing wrong if enough Quebecers truely want their own country, its in both of our best interest to make it happen. The problem is though even though this is the healthy way to approach things. Any politicians that would think this way publicly would be burned at the stake and their careers would be over.
Fear is a bad motivator!!!
Maple Leaf whats the point of the blue and white Canadian flag?
maple_leaf1 @ Sat Dec 24, 2005 9:22 am
I'm a Quebecer.....I don't want to seperate.
Canada is my country. And I'm a proud Canadian. Like 50% of Quebec residents. And I don't beleive you can seperate a country based on a half and half basis....
Bodah @ Sat Dec 24, 2005 9:33 am
Im not too sure about Federalist Quebecers anymore,...you've all gone a little nuts as to what you expect from the ROC based soley on your mother tounge.
At least I know separatists aren't trying to change Canada, they just want to leave it.