Why are we not angrier at the proposed coalition?
ryan29 @ Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:10 pm
there are lots who are angry , you just haven't been seeing them on your local news or doing things on the street . canadians are not the protesting type but there will be some big rallys and protests this weekend .
theblocbarks @ Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:11 pm
Don-I hear you. Yes, these are the rules. Canada is a constitutional monarchy and this is what we do. Not often, so it shocks us, but totally allowed. We have, many of us, been asleep at the the old political wheel, and it is out of hand. This debate is necessary, in my opinion, and the outrage is necessary to create change. Change, that is desperately needed. And there isn't a lot of disagreement about that. My shock, is that this issue is stupid, it is all about them losing their dollars that we give them. I guess naive old me thought when Mulroney and Chretien were retired, that the egomaniacs were gone. I was wrong, wasn't I?
Donny_Brasco @ Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:14 pm
ridenrain ridenrain:
Mustang1 Mustang1:
I'm certainly not angry (although i do think that legislative affiliations with the Bloc may present some future issues for the Liberals and NDP not to mention the obvious political blowback that could occur). This is entirely LEGAL (while many here wrongly assume there reservations actually carry constitutional weight) and possesses precedent and is a democratic function of parliamentary systems. That's the short end of it.
Now, whether or not this coalition works, lasts or becomes a cautionary tale remains to be seen, but you certainly can't call Canadian politics boring.
Now, whether or not this coalition works, lasts or becomes a cautionary tale remains to be seen, but you certainly can't call Canadian politics boring.
This sets the precidence that only the stromgest majority's can survive. It also pulls the Liberals away from the center and in the same camp as the NDP and Bloc, which is not a place they want to be. It's too crowded and there's far too many topics to disagree on.
This also does more to strengthen the separatists that "Viva Quebec Libra".
I wonder if the people who voted for the Bloc are saying the exact same thing:
"Why is our separatist party working with other parties to govern a country we'd like to separate from anyways?"
Donny_Brasco @ Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:16 pm
theblocbarks theblocbarks:
Don-I hear you. Yes, these are the rules. Canada is a constitutional monarchy and this is what we do. Not often, so it shocks us, but totally allowed. We have, many of us, been asleep at the the old political wheel, and it is out of hand. This debate is necessary, in my opinion, and the outrage is necessary to create change. Change, that is desperately needed. And there isn't a lot of disagreement about that. My shock, is that this issue is stupid, it is all about them losing their dollars that we give them. I guess naive old me thought when Mulroney and Chretien were retired, that the egomaniacs were gone. I was wrong, wasn't I?
Yes, that ego got Steve-o in this mess in the first place.
What are the chances he swallows his pride and tries to get his government to work by backtracking a bit and throwing a bone or two to the opposition?
Doubt it, but Harper has surprised me before.
theblocbarks @ Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:18 pm
During one of the debates, French one I think, the only guy who seemed to know what his task would be and his mandate would be was Duceppe. He represents the people of Quebec. Hands down. Not good for them, he's not gonna do it. The guy knows what his job is. Have to admire that. Could we get anyone to say that about the country as a whole, do you think? But, mark my words, no matter what happens, Quebec cannot lose. They are the swing vote. They have incredible power which I was surprised to see them sign away on a limited basis for a limited time. My friends in Quebec are applauding him.
Donny_Brasco @ Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:28 pm
They should be. How else does the Bloc get to fulfil their mandate, they can't do it alone.
I don't see what the big deal is about three groups with different ideologies working together. I think its a good thing and a good day for Democracy when the people who we elected with a clear majority of the voted gets together to form a government. It is even better that they do this and not allow a party who claims to have a mandate, but who does not, to govern as if they did - with less votes and less seats then the other three.
Harper had his chance to form a working government. Throw a few bones out, get a few guys to cross the floor, act civil and respectful to the opposition parties who he needs to continue to run a government.
You should be angrier at Harper for wrecking his chance to push his agenda.
Why be angry at the people we elected to govern when they step up and start to do so?
fifeboy @ Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:50 pm
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
Seems better to me to have three different ideologies creating checks and balances for each other and working toward a better Canada for all ... then to have a minority government acting as if it had a majority but unable to operate an effective government.
And to me it is also better to acknowledge the Bloc as a legitimate party and work with them instead of further alienating the millions of Quebecers who voted for them.
And to me it is also better to acknowledge the Bloc as a legitimate party and work with them instead of further alienating the millions of Quebecers who voted for them.
What's this, a voice of reason? I'm with you DB. These three guys represent way more than 50% of the votes cast in the last election. If they can make a go at running the country, let'em go for it.
Elvis @ Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:51 pm
The irony in this is that the con in Quebec told us that a vote for the Bloc was a wasted vote.
And that we should vote conservative if we wanted to be part of government 
Ho boy are they screw now!
Let's say that I find this whole situation very funny.
PANZERBUNNY @ Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:55 pm
fifeboy fifeboy:
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
Seems better to me to have three different ideologies creating checks and balances for each other and working toward a better Canada for all ... then to have a minority government acting as if it had a majority but unable to operate an effective government.
And to me it is also better to acknowledge the Bloc as a legitimate party and work with them instead of further alienating the millions of Quebecers who voted for them.
And to me it is also better to acknowledge the Bloc as a legitimate party and work with them instead of further alienating the millions of Quebecers who voted for them.
What's this, a voice of reason? I'm with you DB. These three guys represent way more than 50% of the votes cast in the last election. If they can make a go at running the country, let'em go for it.At the election at THAT TIME.
People may/would vote differently in MANY instances if on the ballot you saw all those names together for YOUR VOTE.
You cant say they represent MORE because even people who vote for the coalition parties might be like " this isn't good for our country and for US the voters".
wake up.
theblocbarks @ Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:00 pm
But, as someone pointed out earlier-"those aren't our rules". The guy who gets the most seats wins and gets to run the government. What people are upset about (she says speaking for everyone) is that this is totally a useless waste of time and money. An economic stimulation plan cannot be put in place anywhere until the US puts the new president in and he makes his move. It is on hold around the world for another month. But, supporters of overthrowing the government seem to feel that here in Canada we operate in a vacuum and should be able to format our own economic policy with no regard for the rest of the world. Of course he didn't say anything about the economic stimulation package and if anyone had they would have been stupid. Please, that is the anger and frustration. Stephen Dion nearly sucked both his lips down his throat he was so angry today. This is all about saving face, anger, Jean Chretien crawling back into the arena and the NDP finally getting a chance to SIGN SOMETHING. Need I remind anyone that when the NDP were elected in Ontario they nearly bankrupted the province? Are the Liberals fit-no not right now. NDP? NO. Bloc? Well, you guys seem to think they are a national party so maybe (and, by the way, if they were a national party, running on a separatist agenda-and got a lot of seats-that's fine-but they are a provincial party!!!)Oh, and let's not forget Ms May- bustling with excitement like Flora, Fauna and Meriwether.
Donny_Brasco @ Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:12 pm
theblocbarks theblocbarks:
Need I remind anyone that when the NDP were elected in Ontario they nearly bankrupted the province?
Need I remind you that the NDP in Saskatchewan took us from have not's almost bankrupted by theiving Torys to one of the best economies in North America?
Whats my point? Who cares, governments come and go - it is not always the governments fault that an economy goes south. If it were the present PM and his 143 silent companions would have alot of explaining to do.
I know it is not really their fault. But by opening the door and bringing up the Ontario NDP's record you open the door to the rest of us doing the same for the Cons as of late. And really, I don;t think anyone on these forums has ever seen anything worse.
So I'd say you don't want to go there.
Donny_Brasco @ Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:15 pm
PANZERBUNNY PANZERBUNNY:
fifeboy fifeboy:
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
Seems better to me to have three different ideologies creating checks and balances for each other and working toward a better Canada for all ... then to have a minority government acting as if it had a majority but unable to operate an effective government.
And to me it is also better to acknowledge the Bloc as a legitimate party and work with them instead of further alienating the millions of Quebecers who voted for them.
And to me it is also better to acknowledge the Bloc as a legitimate party and work with them instead of further alienating the millions of Quebecers who voted for them.
What's this, a voice of reason? I'm with you DB. These three guys represent way more than 50% of the votes cast in the last election. If they can make a go at running the country, let'em go for it.At the election at THAT TIME.
People may/would vote differently in MANY instances if on the ballot you saw all those names together for YOUR VOTE.
You cant say they represent MORE because even people who vote for the coalition parties might be like " this isn't good for our country and for US the voters".
wake up.
Actually that would have been better. I would have prefered to vote for one candidate of the three who I knew was going to beat the conservatives in my riding.
I would say you are a little off base if you think a coalition of the three would not beat the hell out of your conservatives. Maybe we should have an election and find out.
Scape @ Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:20 pm
StuntmanMike @ Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:27 pm
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
I would say you are a little off base if you think a coalition of the three would not beat the hell out of your conservatives. Maybe we should have an election and find out.
As unwieldy and expensive as that would be, I think you make a good point. Another election may just be the worst possible solution-except for all the others.
Donny, and the other anti-Harper folks have good reason to be annoyed. It was his brinkmanship and stubborness that triggered this mess. However, Dion was quite clear during the campaign that the Liberals had no intention of joining the NDP in a coalition. And nobody hinted they'd join with the Bloc. Alot of people may not have voted for Harper, but they didn't vote for a coalition of 3 different parties with a separatist element either.
It may be time to pull the plug, and send the whole mess to the ultimate referee, the voter, to sort it out.
Any other solution is going to infuriate huge swaths of the electorate, on all sides of the political spectrum.
mtbr @ Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:01 am
theblocbarks theblocbarks:
Have joined this site today, because I am absolutely incensed that a coalition is being proposed that involves the Bloc. They have a right to exist, I guess, but they are not a national party!!! Hello-where is the outrage?? Why aren't we all marching or something? I am totally and absolutely stunned. Why is no one in the Media actually pointing out to folks that THIS IS ALL ABOUT MONEY AND HURT FEELINGS.
How do we reach Governor General Jean? I will try to calm down..
How do we reach Governor General Jean? I will try to calm down..
This country is full of crybaby socialists, who all hate Harper and are willing to hand separatists a blank cheque to get rid of him. It has nothing to do with a stimulus package it's about power and revenge. Every person on the street who supports the CCC always talks about revenge and how it will get rid of Harper.