Why are we not angrier at the proposed coalition?
hurley_108 @ Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:14 am
Mustang1 Mustang1:
I'm certainly not angry (although i do think that legislative affiliations with the Bloc may present some future issues for the Liberals and NDP not to mention the obvious political blowback that could occur). This is entirely LEGAL (while many here wrongly assume there reservations actually carry constitutional weight) and possesses precedent and is a democratic function of parliamentary systems. That's the short end of it.
Now, whether or not this coalition works, lasts or becomes a cautionary tale remains to be seen, but you certainly can't call Canadian politics boring.
Now, whether or not this coalition works, lasts or becomes a cautionary tale remains to be seen, but you certainly can't call Canadian politics boring.
An excellent summary of the situation.
fifeboy @ Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:30 am
hurley_108 hurley_108:
Mustang1 Mustang1:
I'm certainly not angry (although i do think that legislative affiliations with the Bloc may present some future issues for the Liberals and NDP not to mention the obvious political blowback that could occur). This is entirely LEGAL (while many here wrongly assume there reservations actually carry constitutional weight) and possesses precedent and is a democratic function of parliamentary systems. That's the short end of it.
Now, whether or not this coalition works, lasts or becomes a cautionary tale remains to be seen, but you certainly can't call Canadian politics boring.
Now, whether or not this coalition works, lasts or becomes a cautionary tale remains to be seen, but you certainly can't call Canadian politics boring.
An excellent summary of the situation.
Eli @ Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:20 pm
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
Seems better to me to have three different ideologies creating checks and balances for each other and working toward a better Canada for all ... then to have a minority government acting as if it had a majority but unable to operate an effective government.
And to me it is also better to acknowledge the Bloc as a legitimate party and work with them instead of further alienating the millions of Quebecers who voted for them.
And to me it is also better to acknowledge the Bloc as a legitimate party and work with them instead of further alienating the millions of Quebecers who voted for them.
You contradict yourself my friend, in one breath you say it is better to a many parties trying to agree, then one small party trying to fight many. Do you not think, that once in power, this coalition of many, will inevitably not dispute amongst themselves? Given their polarized political platform, it works now, but in the end, they will not work together.
ridenrain @ Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:34 pm
ridenrain ridenrain:
Mustang1 Mustang1:
I'm certainly not angry (although i do think that legislative affiliations with the Bloc may present some future issues for the Liberals and NDP not to mention the obvious political blowback that could occur). This is entirely LEGAL (while many here wrongly assume there reservations actually carry constitutional weight) and possesses precedent and is a democratic function of parliamentary systems. That's the short end of it.
Now, whether or not this coalition works, lasts or becomes a cautionary tale remains to be seen, but you certainly can't call Canadian politics boring.
Now, whether or not this coalition works, lasts or becomes a cautionary tale remains to be seen, but you certainly can't call Canadian politics boring.
This sets the precidence that only the stromgest majority's can survive. It also pulls the Liberals away from the center and in the same camp as the NDP and Bloc, which is not a place they want to be. It's too crowded and there's far too many topics to disagree on.
This also does more to strengthen the separatists that "Viva Quebec Libra".
Still no answer or comment?
I haven't seen you write anything on this coalition issue either.
Why is that?
dino_bobba_renno @ Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:37 pm
Eli Eli:
Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:
Seems better to me to have three different ideologies creating checks and balances for each other and working toward a better Canada for all ... then to have a minority government acting as if it had a majority but unable to operate an effective government.
And to me it is also better to acknowledge the Bloc as a legitimate party and work with them instead of further alienating the millions of Quebecers who voted for them.
And to me it is also better to acknowledge the Bloc as a legitimate party and work with them instead of further alienating the millions of Quebecers who voted for them.
You contradict yourself my friend, in one breath you say it is better to a many parties trying to agree, then one small party trying to fight many. Do you not think, that once in power, this coalition of many, will inevitably not dispute amongst themselves? Given their polarized political platform, it works now, but in the end, they will not work together.
The coalition is all ready showing cracks and it has only been less than a week,
Mustang1 @ Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:36 am
ridenrain ridenrain:
ridenrain ridenrain:
Mustang1 Mustang1:
I'm certainly not angry (although i do think that legislative affiliations with the Bloc may present some future issues for the Liberals and NDP not to mention the obvious political blowback that could occur). This is entirely LEGAL (while many here wrongly assume there reservations actually carry constitutional weight) and possesses precedent and is a democratic function of parliamentary systems. That's the short end of it.
Now, whether or not this coalition works, lasts or becomes a cautionary tale remains to be seen, but you certainly can't call Canadian politics boring.
Now, whether or not this coalition works, lasts or becomes a cautionary tale remains to be seen, but you certainly can't call Canadian politics boring.
This sets the precidence that only the stromgest majority's can survive. It also pulls the Liberals away from the center and in the same camp as the NDP and Bloc, which is not a place they want to be. It's too crowded and there's far too many topics to disagree on.
This also does more to strengthen the separatists that "Viva Quebec Libra".
Still no answer or comment?
I haven't seen you write anything on this coalition issue either.
Why is that?
Answer? Where's the question?
And i've written numerous comments on the coalition (maybe READ the forum BEFORE posting next time) from Parliamentary democracy to constitutional law to political conventions to reserve powers to prorogue to instruments of advice.
As per usual, it would appear that things have escaped you.
smorgdonkey @ Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:11 am
theblocbarks theblocbarks:
Have joined this site today, because I am absolutely incensed that a coalition is being proposed that involves the Bloc. They have a right to exist, I guess, but they are not a national party!!! Hello-where is the outrage?? Why aren't we all marching or something? I am totally and absolutely stunned. Why is no one in the Media actually pointing out to folks that THIS IS ALL ABOUT MONEY AND HURT FEELINGS.
How do we reach Governor General Jean? I will try to calm down..
How do we reach Governor General Jean? I will try to calm down..
The answer to 'Why are we not angrier at the proposed coalition?' is this:
1. Harper has been very arrogant during his time in office.
2. Harper called an election early because he was 'in majority territory'.
3. Harper came out with a larger minority AND a bruised ego for not getting his majority.
4. Harper, out of anger, tried to ensure that he would get his majority NEXT election by attempting to cut the political party funding regimen.
Very fascist behaviour.
As to the concerns about the Bloc, Harper has used Bloc support in the past many times and is only now focusing on the 'separatists' as Public Relations spin to deface the coalition. Is it about money and hurt feelings as you suggest? YES indeed...Harper is known among his own party as 'the Prime Minister who snatched a minority from the jaws of a majority' and his feelings are definitely hurt. The proposed coalition is indeed proposing to use Bloc support but not to have cabinet members from the Bloc.
Stephen will do anything to try to have absolute power. Now his quick temper has hurt the Conservatives even more because his constant negative ravings about 'the Separatists' (though inaccurate) have been heard in Quebec...just watch what happens in Quebec's election...there will be major Conservative backlash. This will also put the Bloc in a perceived 'win' situation which will blow this entire Harper power play into a sovereignty issue when it wasn't about that from the start.
The truth is that Harper is building anger towards himself. He finally let his ego outweigh his diabolical nature to wear the sheep's clothing.
Poor Stephen. This guy has to be one of the worst statesmen and Prime Ministers ever.
Wada @ Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:20 am
ziggy @ Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:25 am
fixed this for ya.
Stephen will do anything to try to have absolute power.
DerbyX @ Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:57 am
Mustang1 Mustang1:
And i've written numerous comments on the coalition (maybe READ the forum BEFORE posting next time) from Parliamentary democracy to constitutional law to political conventions to reserve powers to prorogue to instruments of advice.
As per usual, it would appear that things have escaped you.
Thats because he hasn't got the first clue about the legality or consitutionality of the coalition precedent.
To him its a simple matter that because its Liberals doing it to the CPC it must be illegal.
Notice how he can't distinguish between upholding the legitimacy of the act as opposed to personal feelings about it?
For all he knows you could hate Dion, Layton, and Duceppe with a red hot passion and hate the idea of a coaltion between 3 parties unpalatable even if you recognize thats its perfectly legal.
I notice the hacks haven't said much about the question of ducking a confidence motion by asking the GG for a "get out of jail free" card.
Can you imagine the crying and yelling if Martin had ducked any confidence motion before using the same tactic?
I'd have to wrap a towel around my monitor.