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Here we go again! <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/evil.gif' alt='Evil'> Why are the police always BREAKING the law <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/question.gif' alt='Question'>

   

I don't understand. The article isn't very helpful ethier.<br /> <br /> Why are these cops there? What's the big deal?<br />

   

Here is a quote from <a href="http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20060329162522441">this article</a><br /> <br /> Ontario Mohawks Facing Imminent Arrest <br /> <br /> "Ontario Superior Court Judge David Marshall just changed his unilateral contempt order against Six Nations land owners. He took a second shot and missed the mark again. He didn’t correct the main defect in his order that it was made unilaterally at the request of one party in the dispute, Henco Industries. No notice was given to the true owners of the land, violating the principles of fundamental justice that are recognized in both Canadian and international law, such as the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. Canada has signed this covenant but...ignores it.<br /> The Crown suggested Marshall’s first order was too vague for the OPP to enforce. We suggest it was totally illegal. The injunction should have been made against Henco Industries. Their right to change the character and use of the land is questionable, to say the least. A proper injunction would require Henco to immediately stop construction and alterations until the issue of who owns the land is resolved. <br /> <br /> A Canadian person would not be required to respond if an American crossed their border, started building on their land and went to a U.S. court to defend this right.<br /> Judge Marshall was irritated by the Crown’s complaint that his original order was “ambiguous” and needed “to be toughened up”. Isn’t the Crown supposed to represent both sides to a dispute? As Canada describes itself as a trustee of Indians, why is it taking the side of the other party?<br /> The Attorney General of Ontario is not neutral. He has to side with the Province of Ontario which has been misleading Henco into believing it owns the land and can give out title. This violates the original Haldimand Declaration that the Crown would protect the Six Nations’ interests in the land 6 miles on both sides of the Grand River from its mouth to its source. In fact, one of the first surveys done in the area now called Ontario was done to mark out some of the boundaries of Six Nations Land. <br /> <br /> Are these folks living in a fantasy world? They had only one thing in mind. They want the OPP to “Get over there and shoot the hell out of dem bad Injuns”. Hey! This ain’t no cowboys and Indian spaghetti western! <br /> <br /> In the 1920’s Canada sent in the (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) to throw out the traditional Six Nations government and take all our funds. They had no authority to do this. The Six Nations government could never complete its negotiations with the OPP. The OPP does not have legitimate jurisdiction to conduct policing maneuvers on Six Nations land. <br /> <br /> Marshall’s court order has no legal authority to make orders on what happens on Six Nations land. When the Six Nations people didn’t show up, he made them guilty of contempt of court. How can they be in contempt when they didn’t know about (it)? There’s a whole lot of crazy stuff going on here! Marshall, the court, Ontario, Canada and the OPP are showing a lot of contempt for the law. The Indians are right there for all the world to see. There would have been no problem finding someone to tell them about the court hearing." <br />

   

Thanks. That helps a bit.<br /> <br /> I can't help thinking it's overly sensational though. Not that the housing development isn't wrong, but bylines like "narrowly averted bloodbath" and allusions to "RCMP and OPP with guns blazing" in the mostlywater.org links when I seriously hadn't heard anything on this issue just make it sound that way.<br /> <br /> They aught to file a complaint at the ICC if Canada/Ontairo are not fulfilling their treaty obligations.

   

Dr. C remember Ipperwash? It's not like they are going to allow any media or the public in on anything they have planned. It will just "go down" if that's what they want. That's not to say that's the case, but when it comes to situations like this, we aren't usually told ahead of time.<br /> <br /> It's also not unusual for builders to ignore any laws or regulations when they are intent on building. Here in Ontario they built on the Oak Ridges which was protected against development for the water shed, it went through. They tear down historical buildings, trees, whatever. Build it and then play the "I didn't know but hey, it's already done" card.<br /> <br /> Anyway, here are a few more links:<br /> <a href="http://simcoereformer.ca/story.php?id=223156">Caledonia residents demand action<br /> The Simcoe Reformer</a><br /> <br /> <a href="http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/06042006/3/toronto-caledonia-residents-want-police-action-native-occupation.html">Caledonia residents want police action in native occupation</a> <br /> <br />

   

Footprints,<br /> <br /> Why didn't you make your contention known at the time the survey was done for the development?<br /> <br /> Why did you wait until the first houses were built?<br /> <br /> Under common law you may very well wind up paying for the improvements made to the land you claim,(survey, utilities, roads, houses, etc) should the courts decide in your favour on this issue. (I'm not a lawyer but know a little about improvements to land and facilities).<br /> <br /> A substantial chunk of your land was sold to the German Land Company in the late 1700's and now comprises the cities of Waterloo & Kitchener; and Cambridge I believe.<br /> <br /> The oldest CONTINUOUSLY operating business in this neck of the woods is the flour mill in Preston, now part of Cambridge. Began ops in 1806 or 1808 I think.<br /> <br /> You can examine the original bill of sale of your land at the Kitchener Library historic archives.<br /> <br /> H.F. Wolff

   

Looks like there is some hope . . .<br /> <br /> <a href='http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=hamilton/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1144878611899&call_pageid=1020420665036&col=1014656511815'>Link</a>

   

Hmmm, Have a look at Dr Caleb's link,<br /> <br /> 'Kaz Novak, the Hamilton Spectator'<br /> <br /> "The Caledonia Douglas Creek subdivision is the site of the Six Nations land protest."<br /> <br /> Pretty nice looking expensive home in the background. Is it Native owned ?<br /> -----------------------------------------------------------------------<br /> <br /> Honey please give the keys to the car, double the allowance and throw an open house for our spoiled child. He's acting up again so just give him everything he wants and maybe he'll calm down until the next flare-up.<br /> <br /> Hooray for the Mayor of Caledonia who spoke her mind and told it like it is.<br /> <br /> Boo to the people who shoved their finger in her face practically spitting on her and not allowing her to respond.<br /> <br /> Hooray to the people of Caledonia for standing up and saying they pay taxes and want to get to work.<br /> <br /> Boo to the media who again go overboard with the sensationalism and portraying the Natives as the poor downtrodden, pennyless people of Canada.<br /> "RCMP and OPP with guns blazing" "In the 1920’s Canada sent in the (Royal Canadian Mounted Police)...", well ok, those two might fit, sounds like an old western.<br /> <br /> I wonder if they still ship unmarked tobacco from Ontario to be sold on reserves Quebec ?<br /> The only reason they want all this land so bad is to do exactly what the non-natives are doing with it now, MAKE MONEY ! <br /> <br /> Go ahead and have it, and here-yee here-yee h.f.wolff, "Under common law you may very well wind up paying for the improvements made to the land you claim,(survey, utilities, roads, houses, etc) should the courts decide in your favour on this issue. (I'm not a lawyer but know a little about improvements to land and facilities)." <br /> <br /> Wishful thinking my friend, in the long run the taxpayer will pay that too."

   

The only claim the natives have is the lan was leased, not granted to the British, but come on that was almost 200 years ago.<br /> <br /> The natives are breaking the law, blocking roads, buring tires and cars and being aggressive. As one person noted in a Toronto Star article, the army should be called in the clear them out. If you don't use force, they'll know you'll always capitulate.<br /> <br /> How long before Canadians realize the aboriginals are not the same as us and have different priorities? We should defend ourselves. The natives have some nerve begging for help. They should be begging for forgiveness.

   

How obtuse can you get? The criminals descendants blaming the victims for being victimized.

   

“Honey please give the keys to the car, double the allowance and throw an open house for our spoiled child. He's acting up again so just give him everything he wants and maybe he'll calm down until the next flare-up.<br /> <br /> Hooray for the Mayor of Caledonia who spoke her mind and told it like it is.”<br /> <br /> I agree, for a group of people who have said that they do not recognize the Canadian Government jurisdiction over them they sure recognize the monthly cheque with that name on the top!<br /> <br /> ” Hooray to the people of Caledonia for standing up and saying they pay taxes and want to get to work.”<br /> <br /> And like many of us across Ontario and elseware in Canada they are wondering if the deed to their property means anything if a small band of people can just come in, decide that this land WAS theirs 100s of years ago and seize their home without repercussions.<br /> <br /> For once I agree with Perturbed………..”The natives are breaking the law, blocking roads, burning tires and cars and being aggressive. As one person noted in a Toronto Star article, the army should be called in the clear them out. If you don't use force, they'll know you'll always capitulate.”<br /> <br /> Why must the natives always escalate things by burning or damaging public property (in this case, if nothing else, the road surface). It does NOTHING to help their cause.<br /> <br /> This is clearly a dispute between the Federal Government and the Natives over an agreement created well over 100 years ago, IF there is any credence to the natives claim it should be with the Federal Government they shoud be directing their efforts, NOT the local white community.<br /> <br /> I am constantly amazed by those who come down on the OPP, they are just doing their job, they must uphold the law and obey any court orders the same as any citizen SHOULD. They are in the middle with a thankless task in a no win situation.<br /> <br />

   

[QUOTE BY= Milton] How obtuse can you get? The criminals descendants blaming the victims for being victimized.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Oh B.S. it is you who is being obtuse. I am not guilty for past white crimes any more than a Japanese child today is guilty for Pearl Harbour.<br /> <br /> Implying the land was "stolen" is incorrect. We didn't steal anything--stealing implies being coercise. We settled it by force. We were stronger. No apologies. What matters is who can do something with it.

   

[QUOTE BY= Rural] “Honey please give the keys to the car, double the allowance and throw an open house for our spoiled child. He's acting up again so just give him everything he wants and maybe he'll calm down until the next flare-up.<br /> <br /> Hooray for the Mayor of Caledonia who spoke her mind and told it like it is.”<br /> <br /> I agree, for a group of people who have said that they do not recognize the Canadian Government jurisdiction over them they sure recognize the monthly cheque with that name on the top!<br /> <br /> ” Hooray to the people of Caledonia for standing up and saying they pay taxes and want to get to work.”<br /> <br /> And like many of us across Ontario and elseware in Canada they are wondering if the deed to their property means anything if a small band of people can just come in, decide that this land WAS theirs 100s of years ago and seize their home without repercussions.<br /> <br /> For once I agree with Perturbed………..”The natives are breaking the law, blocking roads, burning tires and cars and being aggressive. As one person noted in a Toronto Star article, the army should be called in the clear them out. If you don't use force, they'll know you'll always capitulate.”<br /> <br /> Why must the natives always escalate things by burning or damaging public property (in this case, if nothing else, the road surface). It does NOTHING to help their cause.<br /> <br /> This is clearly a dispute between the Federal Government and the Natives over an agreement created well over 100 years ago, IF there is any credence to the natives claim it should be with the Federal Government they shoud be directing their efforts, NOT the local white community.<br /> <br /> I am constantly amazed by those who come down on the OPP, they are just doing their job, they must uphold the law and obey any court orders the same as any citizen SHOULD. They are in the middle with a thankless task in a no win situation.<br /> <br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <br /> While I don't like farmland being turned into subdivisions, the aboriginals simply want to make money too. That's all they want.

   

[QUOTE BY= Perturbed] [QUOTE BY= Milton] How obtuse can you get? The criminals descendants blaming the victims for being victimized.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Implying the land was "stolen" is incorrect. We didn't steal anything--stealing implies being coercise. We settled it by force. We were stronger. No apologies. What matters is who can do something with it.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Wrong - they claim the land was leased not bought. As lease holders they can demand the land all they want.<br /> <br /> So by your inept reasoning if America invades us they can have all the land they want eh? <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/rolleyes.gif' alt='Rolling Eyes'>

   

[QUOTE BY= Roy_Whyte] <br /> So by your inept reasoning if America invades us they can have all the land they want eh? [/quote]<br /> <br /> Roy, you got that EXACTLY right!<br /> <br /> How do you think Israel got its territory?<br /> How do you think the U.S. got Texas, New Mexico, California?<br /> How do you think the Polish border got moved west by 500 Km?<br /> How do you think South Africa came into the British sphere of control?<br /> <br /> All through wars and by TAKING.<br /> <br /> H.F. Wolff

   

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